C5 Corvette

Bob Larson, bob@braincell.com

As most of you know, I hit the lease termination on my NSX about a month ago and the car sailed off into the sunset. On the top of a flatbed truck, actually. Quite unexpectedly, its former place in the garage has already been filled. On Wednesday night of this week, I took delivery of a 1998 Corvette 6-speed coupe. I'd been thinking of ordering a Corvette... my plan was to test drive, order, and take museum delivery down in Bowling Green, KY, all before summer.

However, the availability of new 6-speeds for order in the '98 model year fell deeply into question due to supplier (Borg-Warner) problems, and I was getting so frustrated trying to find a car to test drive (I could tell you stories!), and then with the prospect of having to possibly wait  until the '99 model year that I was just about fed up and resigned to the  idea of not buying a sports car for a while until the dust settled. That was this past Monday.

Then on Tuesday a miracle occurred, thanks to my good friend Jay Levine making a fortuitous phone call on my behalf. From that, we learned of one that was available for immediate delivery at Curry Chevrolet in Scarsdale, the sister store of Curry Acura where Jay got Bad Blue. Amazingly, it is almost the *exact* car I was planning to order from the factory, and it practically just fell into my lap like a gift from above.

By Wednesday night I was through the complete process (following the mandatory test drive) and the car was mine. Well, at MSRP anyway, which is the going deal on manual Vettes, that is if you don't have to pay over sticker. Allegedly, it was one of only seven 6-speeds available at that time on the entire east coast. Black with "light oak" interior just like I planned to order, sport seats, manua ltranny (an $815 option!), factory remote 12-disc CD, and several other goodies. I feel very fortunate to have found and obtained this car.

I snapped a few photos during those first two nights and put them up on the web if you're interested: http://www.braincell.com/bob/my_98_vette/

As some of you know, I owned two examples of the Corvette C4 during the late '80s: the first I loved despite its faults and the second was so riddled with assembly and design defects (there were many running engineering changes to the car) that I hated it and managed to negotiate an early lease termination, whereupon I swore off the "plastic fantastic" like a bad habit. I am NOT one of those guys that thinks of problems and defects as "character", and I go into my C5 ownership fully spoiled by the very high standards set by the NSX.

I have only burned my first tank of gas, yet I have some initial impressions to share, which are about 99% positive. I realize not everyone here will be interested in hearing these, and I promise I will not drone on about the Corvette to this list after today. But I also think there are people here who have interest, especially coming from the perspective of a former NSX  owner and still huge fan of the NSX.

Here on day three, I'm getting that "Mike Niday" feeling of genuine love for my new car. Not that the Vette merits more affection from me than the NSX, but I think that having bought a *used* NSX I never quite had the total feeling like that car was mine. After all, I would smell the pungent aftershave  of the previous owner every time I'd get in the car for like the first 6 months, and the instinct of territoriality associated with scent can be very deeply ingrained in the human animal! So for whatever reason, my affection for my NSX was strong but mostly coming from the intellect,   while I already feel like I'm getting an emotional attachment to the Corvette. Maybe it's the gas emanating from the new plastics?

While its too early to definitively say, I have the early impresion that Chevrolet has done an amazing job of transplanting the historic Corvette character into a fully modern, world class sports car. In so many ways it reminds me of my old Corvette, and yet it also strongly reminds me of my old NSX, in both cases for the right reasons. There is, amazingly enough, a sense of iterative refinement and attention to detail in this car, both in the way it presents itself and how it goes over the road.

The car is brutally fast, although the sensation of speed (which I think brings many more factors into account than raw acceleration) is not significantly different than the NSX. Both are excellent in that regard, but I think when the Vette is fully broken in it will win the drag race. Magazine numbers suggest as much. Every time I've driven mine it seems to get faster. Between the Corvette and NSX, each has a noticeably different flavor to the powertrain, like two distinct but similarly enjoyable, fine wines. This is probably not an analogy I would have used with an older Corvette, even though its powertrain was always its strongest suit.

The all-new, all-aluminum 5.7L V8 effectively combines the rumbly V8 character with the sound of happy, mechanical precision. The intake air sound and valves opening and closing give muted accompaniment to a healthy and deep exhaust note, without me having to look to the aftermarket. Supposedly, Chevy fine tuned the exhaust for 1998, a little different than the '97 C5. Cruising on the highway the engine/exhaust sound fades to a very comfortable db level. 70 MPH in 6th is all of 1500 RPM, and it seems happy to do it. The thing that impresses me most about the drivetrain is how smoothly it transitions between steady rpms, acceleration and deceleration in any gear. No driveline slop at all, and you can idle the engine smoothly all the way down in gear slowing down without getting any low rpm surge, unlike when the NSX fuel injectors kick back in. This lack of slop and surge combined with awesome power really makes the  Corvette powertrain feel expensive, and I'm so glad they worked on finer points like this. As a side note, the new Corvette (LS1) engine won Automobile magazine's "Technology of the Year" award. This year's 345HP (350 lb-ft of torque) is alleged to rise to 390HP in '99.

The Corvette has always been a big tires and big motor kind of car and that hasn't changed, but I think for the first time the vehicle around those components feels like their master, not just along for a squeaky ride. Body structure feels first rate, on par with the NSX coupe I would say and possibly better than the NSX targa, and NVH levels are well-tuned to this type of car. The ride is smoother than the NSX and road noise more subdued, even with the (optional) adaptive ride control set to the stiffest setting. On the down side, the car still has a trace of the old Vette's tendency to get laterally displaced (side step) over large pavement imperfections, possibly due to its still massive run-flat tires. The NSX is amazing in that regard, holding its line like a guided missile regardless of earthquakes or New York City potholes. The Vette's magnetic power steering is really well-done, great feel, perfect self-centering action, and seamless in its application of variable assist. My NSX  steering was manual and I loved it, but I am not a big fan of the NSX's power  steering, which feels artificial and sometimes overboosted to me.

So far my car has not revealed the slightest squeak, leak, or rattle, and the first night I had it I drove home 80 miles in a terrible rain storm (all Corvette coupes are targas.)

The cockpit is functional, attractive, and straightforward on initial read, yet can also do some neat electronic tricks with a little poking around -- like read out all four tire pressures in psi, show precise oil and coolant temperatures, split temperature zones between driver and passenger, adjust radio volume to ambient noise level, remember individual driver setting for everything from mirror position to where they left off in the CD changer (which has a real random mode for juke-boxing around all 12 discs BTW!), switch the analog speedometer to indicate MPH or KPH (it's fun to watch the needle swing over to the corresponding numbers), I could go on and on. It can even be programmed to lock and unlock the car (and work the alarm) based on proximity of the key fob to the car. I realize these are just gadgets, but they've been integrated into the car in a way that feels thoughtful and modern. Best of all they actually work. So far, I have not found one non-super-picky build defect in this amazingly complex car. Of course it is not the masterpiece of hand assembly that the NSX is-- this is a car designed for mass-production. But it's a surprisingly good one, especially knowing the historical crappiness of previous Corvette assembly.

What should the next NSX copy from the Corvette? Number one, without question, is to offer a tinted, acrylic targa top like the Vette's. It is just the coolest, and a major reason I didn't spring for the Vette convertible. Number two is to add some of the same benefits of modern electronics in luxury features. For example, the $90K NSX has no business whatsoever making keyless entry a pricey, dealer installed option. And many of the other features of the Vette are not available at all. Number three would be to study how GM does its new power steering, which is just plain better IMO. Finally, the Corvette's stereo just kicks ass.

There is more I could tell you and compare to the NSX (just for reference, not to judge which is a better sports car), but I've already clogged up this channel enough. Let me just say one more thing in that regard: nothing has seats like the NSX, it is simply unrivaled for comfort in my book, a fact that became especially obvious to me after driving it across the country.  Even with all their whiz-bang adjustments, the Vette's optional sport seats are no match.

My intention is not to encourage anyone to trade in their NSX on a Vette. The NSX is an exotic, superb sports car built with the precision of a Swiss watch. One of the finest and most fun-to-drive cars of the modern era, IMO. By all means, hold onto yours. I just wanted to tell people about another cool car out there that could change some preconceptions, as viewed by a former NSX driver. As Automobile magazine said, it deserves serious consideration by anyone in the market for a high-performance sports car. As I see it now, they were being inclusive of very discerning drivers, not just speed freaks on a budget. I think that is what's so surprising, that the car feels rewarding in subtle ways.

In time, I will do a new web page talking about the car, like I did for my NSX ( http://www.braincell.com/bob/nsx/ )
and give a pointer to it here. I will have the Vette at the Spring Fling, and probably also for NSXPO, and those wishing to switch off and drive it for themselves are welcome.

Larry Long, autoll@infinet.com

This quote led me to report on this afternoons test drive of a '97 vette. A local dealer had a red 6-spd. with 3,500 miles on it so I was able to wangle a test drive. Me and my 100 lb wife, no salesman, Ahh!, or so I thought. I ran it quite hard for about 20 minutes straight line and hit an infinity type cloverleaf. Surprisingly, and I guess happily, It was a pretty big let down.

First the good, or possible goods. The perceived torque is at least *double* a 300hp NSX. It was funny watching my wife bounce back and forth when I did multiple 2nd gear roll-ons/ABS. Even a supercharged NSX won't snap the neck like this. And this torque is available at most all rpms. Roll-ons for g-force impressions must be done from a very small rpm band in our rides. There is a little high rpm roar like we have, but much less. Launches fairly well, did full power shifts to second affording a healthy patch. The brakes feel very similar to the NSX, but are much more heavily boosted requiring/allowing a softer and more precise foot. The actuation point was a little vague. I got the impression though that with a little familiarity, overall they would be excellent brakes.

Now the bad. Car feels very high like a sedan. Body seems to float a bit on the chassis. Feels detached from the road surface compared to an NSX, sort of the charactaristics that overinflated tires gives. In power oversteer, it didn't communicate well, found it a bit scary (scary-bad, not scary-fun -- I *do* know the diff). Was able to play the rear on the ramps just like the NSX though. Needed more time to compare actual ramp speeds. Lots a cops out this weekend. While visibility wasn't bad, their is no cab forward "head of the arrow" feel. Shift throws are way too long and effort is too high, shift knob looks like something out of a truck. Drivers side door handle was broken on one side, I had to be careful not to pull the whole thing off (get this Brian!). Dash styling a bit too much for my tastes, some vinyl "bundling" here and there. I didn't take time to properly adjust the seat bolsters, but I couldn't feel any side bolstering at all, loosy goosy, and the leather looked well worn already! Tried the stereo for a minute, didn't sound too good. Exhaust note is just OK. This car is a somewhat refined camaro. What a surprise! At 40k though, it is certainly a good value. While I'm of modest wealth, value is weighted very lightly in my automotive decisions.

My purpose for driving this car was mainly to judge the "character" of the engine. From my automotive beginings I've had a deep love for the simplicity and power potential of the small block chevy. While I'm leaning away from it, a very high horse smallblock with a sequential tranny is on my list of considerations for my car. This new engine did seem to use it's available rev's better than it's predecessors. It still didn't seem to "embrace" the rev's like the NSX does though. You *can* get 8k out of these V-8's, but they don't *like* it. Experience dictates both torque and high rpm's are desirable, but until we can afford that BMW Mclaren engine....

In summary the quote Ken posted earlier sums it up well for me "But if you turn a blind eye to the unmatched sophistication of the rest of the car, you're missing the best part." I love my car!

Phil Mirenda, tailgater@theonramp.net

I also drove the vette a few weeks ago. Bottomline, this car would be a great replacement for my Mark VIII, especially after driving the NSX to the Vette and immediately getting behind it's wheel. The car did feel more like a sport coupe than a sports car, especially when the front end started to lighten at approximately 110. The dealer Corvette specialist
acknowledged that this is a problem but that the Z51 suspension may handle it. The car I drove had sports seats which allowed the side bolsters to adjust thereby aiding lateral support. May consider a convertible but just for what it is. A normal daily driver. Track time??? I'll take the NSX.

Bill Townsend, btownsend@lycos.com

Thought I'd post my impressions of the new Corvette as I seriously considered purchasing one this summer.

The C5 is greatly improved over earlier versions. The power is awesome. The ergonomics are wonderful; in fact, the seats in the C5 are a tad more comfortable than the NSX'. Fit and finish is very good.

I drove 2 C5s, one with the Z51 suspension and one with the 3-way adjustable suspension. The Z51 susp. is the stiffest but really gives you a harsh ride on roads with rubber strips every 50 feet. It rides much like the Viper. The adjustable suspension is not as stiff as the Z51 and the touring setting is useless (unless you like the feel of riding in a 1986 Monte Carlo). On the 3-way, whenever you floored it, it would pull heavily to one side.

On both cars, the wind noise was terrible. The engine is not smooth like the NSX but instead feels like it is struggling to produce power. This may be in part due to the engine sound which almost grinds upon acceleration.

Nice try, Chevy, but I won't be buying one.

Corvette ZR-1 (and LPE)

Dick Hackman, DICK_HACKMAN@HP-USA-om21.om.hp.com

Work with a gent who owns a 1990 ZR-1 LT5 Vette. He calls me, invites me to an open house at Lingenfelter Performance Engineering, LPE. LPE is perhaps the global guru of horsepower performance in the Corvette world. I accept. How much HP you ask...well over 600 HP is possible!

Asked many of these Vette freaks about the 97 and they all had little tolerance for the auto. Most seemed to view it as a sell out to the mass market. Two fellows had driven 97 Vettes and felt the car was bland. A committee vehicle, as I recall.

My friend bought his ZR-1 after I convinced my wife to purchase the NSX. (note: clever situation where my wife owns the NSX & I drive it) He enjoys autos and I convinced him life was to short to pass without the car of ones dreams. Thus the Vette.

I live in Cincinnati, he lives in Indianapolis. LPE is located in all of the off the wall places, Decatur, Indiana. Can you say, "middle of no where". Up at 5:00 am to meet him in Indy. See, free dyno testing on a first come, first serve basis. We meet and are off to LPE in his ZR-1.

This is a 2 hour drive. The noise in the car is incredible! The Gator Back tires make so much noise, it is often difficult to talk on the concrete highway. At 6 feet, 2+ inches, I have no room as the passenger. Plastic is the theme in the interior. Boy, I long for the NSX.

We arrive at LPE. Huge place. They are very hospitable. We are number 11 on the dyno list and it is 9:10 am. Tour of the shop follows. This is the first open house LPE has ever entertained. Plus, with the huge after market Vette market in the USA, they have enormous stock of take off parts. An auction will be held the next two days for an incredible   assortment of parts.

As we make our way to the dyno testing, I notice the Car & Driver Anniversary Vette in the parking lot. This car does 214 MPH. It is stored in the back lot in pathetic condition. Discover, LPE is remaking this sled for a future issue. May be close to 700 HP.

Finally, we get to dyno my friends ZR-1. Totally stock. He is the first stock ZR-1 to dyno on this day. The gent who designed the ZR-1 engine worked for Lotus in the past and within the last month has secured employment with LPE. He is extremely interested in the dyno results of this stock 1990 ZR-1 with 40,000 miles. LPE techs secure the Vette on the dyno, and we are off! Three runs later, the ZR-1 peaks at 5500 RPM @ 318.6 HP @ the rear wheels.

Very educational. LPE is totally fixed at more power. The concept of any handling of the chassis escapes their market. A very educational trip.

We are now ready to depart LPE. My friend is tired and throws me the keys to his ZR-1. I bite. What a chance to compare one of the best Vette's to the NSX.

The clutch is similar to a truck. The interior is very GM; large order of plastic. Feels like cheap junk from the driver seat type impression. No ergonomics and a rough, course environment. More leg room on the drivers side. My friend sits on the passengers seat for the first time. "Wow, no room at all", he remarks. He is 4 inches shorter than I...no wonder my legs cramp.

The transmission has very long throws and the first to second is impossible. The RPM's run much lower than the NSX. The six speed at 75 MPH will post 1,700 RPM. The exhaust has a great, deep, rough sound. I have heard enough of this noise after 30 minutes on the expressway. So loud, no reason to use the CD player at 70 MPH cruise speed.

Acceleration is impressive, but the car is no where close to the agility of the NSX. Over bumps, during turns, the chassis floats. Very vague. In general, it is very, very fast in a straight line, but ithas little, if any precision. The noise of the car really wears on you. The number of strange squeaks and vibrations is overwhelming. The NSX is so civil by comparison.

I drove the ZR-1 over two hours and I was exhausted. Perhaps the day was just to long, but I firmly believe the Vette just beat the heck out of me. I was more tired, and less satisfied, after driving the Vette for two hours, when compared to the Fall Color Tour. I drove well over 8 hours that day. My 91 NSX is very easy to live with when compared to the ZR-1.

Granted, the ZR-1 has much more power than my NSX, but the NSX is a far superior auto in build quality. In a straight line, the NSX has no chance, yet in cornering the NSX will shine.

A very interesting day. I learned about a different side of auto enthusiasts. We all have our preferences, and the NSX still suits me. It's just perfect.

Corvettes (LT1 In Particular)

Chuck Mirenda, nsx1995@pitnet or net@Ultra1.phoenixnet.net

Let me begin by saying I've owned five newer Corvettes, the last an LT 1, slightly modified. Fun car, great bargain but aside from build quality, which was awful, the car couldn't hold a candle to the NSX at Road America or anywhere after you would reach 130mph. That is not saying its bad, you just got what you paid for. The NSX cost more and you get more (although never enough).

Also remember it has taken GM thirteen years to upgrade the Vette and we still don't know what its real road manners are like. I would venture to say that the REAL next generation NSX will take a major leap forward if Honda decides to remain a player. Right now, lets be realistic and realize that Honda is a corporation and as such has some pretty rigid
build cycles.

I'm not ashamed to admit, if the Corvette is such a great car I'll buy another. But, I'll say it again, its tough to beat the
overall performance (spelled...go, stop, fit, finish, feel, look and reliability) of the NSX

C4 Corvette

Dean Sadamune, Mon, 10 Aug 1998

I had a c4 corvette (I havn't drove the C5), it moved OK, but it could not handle well (tooooo heavy) the C5 seems pretty heavy too. The performance specs seemed good on the corvette but when you drive and compare the two, in my humble opinion, the NSX felt much better.