I'm SOO pissed right now...

[Damage]

I was in talks to buy this car (http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28405) and had a verbal agreement with the seller in addition to e-mails (written right?) that he was to sell the car to me. I saw it in person and everything too. We even agreed to schedule an inspection this week and so I tried calling him yesterday (sunday) since he claimed he was busy friday and saturday. No answer. This morning I call him and he tells me he sold it and that he had e-mailed me (NEVER received an e-mail). He said since I didn't put a deposit down he decided to sell it to someone else. The thing is he NEVER asked for one and he should've called me to get a deposit down before just sellling it to someone else. If he had I would've gladly done so.


I should've sniffed out something about this guy since he gave an odd story of ownership of the car. Claims his friend "Tom" actually owns it and that they trade cars with each other. Also said the first owner DIED and the widow sold it so that's why he has NO prior maintenance record for the car before his friend "Tom" bought it about a year and a half ago. That means about 12 yrs of maintenance records are not available.


Anyhow I just had to let that out.

 

[NemesisX]

Damage,
Sorry to hear about you getting screwed. Thats just not right. But the more I read into the story, the more I believe you might have a blessing in disguise.

Sounds to me he may have been a curbstoner or someone that doesnt have ownership to the car. RED flags are all over this due to his "ownership" problem....If hes not the owner, why is he selling it??? Was the title in his name?? Does he have a title for it???
I wonder what his "friend" Tom did maintanance wise to the car in the year and a half he owned it.
And as for not telling you he "sold" it, he probably didnt want to go thru the buyers inspection for reasons im sure he knows.
Be THANKFUL you didnt give him a deposit. You might not have seen it again.
He probably wanted to find someone who would buy the car without an inspection, just wants someone to give him the money so he can run (people without titles do that all the time, so you end up buying a stolen car)

It would be interesting to find out what Carfax says.....

This one STINKS of the potential to have gone down bad for you.
Glad to at least hear you still have your hard-earned dollars!

 

[Tom239]

This reminds me of what happened to me about a year ago.

I looked at an NSX that a used car wholesaler had for sale. I test drove it, liked it, and made an appointment to get it inspected at a nearby Acura dealer.

The day the inspection was supposed to happen, I got a call from the Acura dealer saying that the car hadn't been brought in. The wholesaler sold it to someone else in the meantime, and didn't bother either to tell me or the shop that we'd made an appointment with.

Same story as you: he said I lost out cause I didn't put a deposit on it, even though he'd never asked me for one.

I ended up getting a better NSX later on.

My advice in cases like this: illegitimi non carborundum.

 

[matteni]

illegitimi non carborundum.

In case you are wondering what this means:

"Illegitimis non carborundum - Yes, this means "Don't let the bastards grind you down", but it is not real Latin; it is a pseudo-Latin joke. "

http://www.trixiepixgraphics.com/funny_pictures.html

Sorry to hear of your woes. Like my wife always tells me in my business dealings:

"Sometimes you need to thank God for the deals you DON'T get!"

 

[Damage]

Damage,
Sorry to hear about you getting screwed. Thats just not right. But the more I read into the story, the more I believe you might have a blessing in disguise.

Sounds to me he may have been a curbstoner or someone that doesnt have ownership to the car. RED flags are all over this due to his "ownership" problem....If hes not the owner, why is he selling it??? Was the title in his name?? Does he have a title for it???
I wonder what his "friend" Tom did maintanance wise to the car in the year and a half he owned it.
And as for not telling you he "sold" it, he probably didnt want to go thru the buyers inspection for reasons im sure he knows.
Be THANKFUL you didnt give him a deposit. You might not have seen it again.
He probably wanted to find someone who would buy the car without an inspection, just wants someone to give him the money so he can run (people without titles do that all the time, so you end up buying a stolen car)

It would be interesting to find out what Carfax says.....

This one STINKS of the potential to have gone down bad for you.
Glad to at least hear you still have your hard-earned dollars!

Well the carfax report checks out ok from what I can tell. There really are no records of anything bad prior to his friend Tom's ownership of it. There's actually nothing at all before that. That's why I was willing to go forward and check it out.

He said he doesn't actually own the car and that he's selling it for his friend. I think he's really a car salesman. Outside of his house he's got about 2-3 other cars for sale that he's selling. Whoever did buy the car definitely bought it without inspecting it. They had to have bought it close to the weekend if not during the weekend and there are no Acura dealers close by that was free to do work this past weekend.

The other odd thing I noticed about the car (maybe it's a normal thing) but both the windshield nozzles have paint chipped/peeled off the top of them and black paint/plastic was exposed underneath. Is that a normal thing or could this car have been repainted red?

 

[Andymi]

I had a similar problem several weeks ago, but things work out in the end, and a better car will come along. Just keep searching, its half the fun anyway.

 

[NemesisX]

He said he doesn't actually own the car and that he's selling it for his friend. I think he's really a car salesman. Outside of his house he's got about 2-3 other cars for sale that he's selling.

That is a curbstoner, which I think is illegal in the state of Cali... RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mickeylex]

A better one will come along

Not getting this car sounds like a blessing in desguise.

 

[Damage]

That is a curbstoner, which I think is illegal in the state of Cali... RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, interesting. Never heard of that term before. I just google'd it. I guess I should look at this as being lucky then.

Well whoever bought hopefully will do an inspection on it.

 

[NemesisX]

Be glad you didnt deal with him...obviously he was hiding something wrong with the car....like I said, a BLESSING in disguise!!

For those who dont know what a curbstoner is.....

Curbstoners are used car dealers posing as a private seller. Curbstoners will place used car ads in local newspapers, sell these used cars out of their home, or on the side of the road. Curbstoners may also solicit other persons to help sell used vehicles.



The buyer is led to believe that they are dealing with either the vehicle's owner or relative and may let their guard down. Curbstoners generally sell vehicles with questionable histories such as rolled back odometers, hidden mechanical problems, or wrecked cars from salvage yards that "cosmetically" look good. Curbstoners normally sell vehicles below book value and give the buyer a hard luck story why they must sell. Buyers are taken in by the lure of a low price and the attitude of "his loss, my gain."

When you are buying a used car from an individual, ask these questions before you spend time traveling to take a test drive:

1) How long have you owned the car?
2) Whose name is the car registered in?
3) Do you have the title?
4) How many miles on the car?
5) Why are you selling the car?
6) Have you performed any major repairs to the car?
7) Has the car ever been wrecked?
8) Does the car have any rust?
9) Does all the electrical and mechanical systems work?
10) Is the car available for a professional inspection?

 

[SCS2k]

I'm sorry, but I don't think you got screwed at all. I have sold several cars myself and have had several instances where someone makes a deal to buy the car and then never shows up. If you really were serious about the car then you should have offered a deposit to hold it for you. I've also had people back out after they put down a deposit. For that reason when I'm selling a car etc. I will tell other interested people that I have a deposit on the car but that the deal may fall through. As far as I'm concerned, a car is not sold until I have cash/check etc. in hand.

 

[Damage]

I'm sorry, but I don't think you got screwed at all. I have sold several cars myself and have had several instances where someone makes a deal to buy the car and then never shows up. If you really were serious about the car then you should have offered a deposit to hold it for you. I've also had people back out after they put down a deposit. For that reason when I'm selling a car etc. I will tell other interested people that I have a deposit on the car but that the deal may fall through. As far as I'm concerned, a car is not sold until I have cash/check etc. in hand.

Well he could've requested one. He didn't mention there were others looking for it. He ignored my calls for 2 days and claimed to have e-mailed me (which he didn't). He knew I was serious about it. Either way, whatever.

 

[Meeyatch1]

This happened to me back in August/September 2002. There was a Sebring Silver NSX for sale in California by an NSX Prime member. The car was for sale for a price I thought reasonable considering a dead A/C system and such (around $25,000). Since I am in Indiana I emailed and called the owner/seller and did the deal over the phone. The seller and I *HAD A VERBAL CONTRACT* to buy the car for a predetermined price and I was making flight arrangements to get the car. I offered a deposit, he declined, saying that was not needed. The deal was struck on a Friday morning.

I get an email Friday afternoon saying that he had a call from someone who wanted to check the car out over the weekend. I reminded him that we had an agreement to do the deal already, he said that he wanted to see if this other buyer was interested for more money!! I was furious, but asked to be kept in the loop for a counter offer on the car he had ALREADY AGREED TO SELL ME!! He said he would do me that 'courtesy' as least and let me know by Sunday. The following Tuesday comes around, he had not answered my emails or phone calls and no word on the car. All the while I have flight plans pending and a bank draft waiting.

Finally he sends me a short email on Wednesday, 'I sold the car to another buyer. Sorry,' and that was it!! WHAT THE HELL??!?!?! I was so upset. Evidently he had no business ethics, and I was left looking for another car. I was so mad at the whole situation I bought a BMW M3 just out of spite. ARGH!!

 

[hlweyl]

The other odd thing I noticed about the car (maybe it's a normal thing) but both the windshield nozzles have paint chipped/peeled off the top of them and black paint/plastic was exposed underneath. Is that a normal thing or could this car have been repainted red?

My guess is someone got too aggresive with a buffer. Areas like that (corners, edges, etc) are the first to go when someone incorrectly uses the buffer.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I was so mad at the whole situation I bought a BMW M3 just out of spite. ARGH!!

I don't mean to laugh at your bad luck but you buying a M3 out of spite is funny to me.
Seriously, I hope you enjoy the heck out of it.

 

[nsxtasy]

I'm sorry, but I don't think you got screwed at all. I have sold several cars myself and have had several instances where someone makes a deal to buy the car and then never shows up. If you really were serious about the car then you should have offered a deposit to hold it for you.

I agree and disagree with what you say. Here's why.

From a legal perspective - and I am not a lawyer, so those who are are welcome to correct me - a car isn't sold unless and until you have a legal contract for the sale. Even if money changes hands for a deposit, I'm not sure there is a legal contract. If you have a written, signed agreement, then there is a legal contract. My understanding is that even an oral-only agreement - a conversation in which you agree to pay him $X and he agrees to sell you the car - is a legal contract, although it is more difficult to enforce if he then claims the conversation never took place.

However, in this case, there was no such agreement, so he was under no obligation to hold the car for Damage (unless he indicated he was going to do so). He was free to sell the car to someone else. Maybe it was slightly discourteous of him not to follow up with Damage, but that's about it.

However, all of that being said, there was absolutely no reason for the seller to lie about the car. Quite aside from the suspicious story about the car's maintenance history, it's clear to me that the seller was lying when he claimed that he sent Damage an e-mail. (Such claims are too convenient to be credible in most such instances, IMO.) And my immediate next thought is, if he's going to lie about sending a follow-up e-mail, what else is he lying about? The car's history? The car's condition? The car's ownership?

Do I think Damage got screwed? Not really; being treated with a lack of courtesy and professionalism is not so bad as being screwed. However, I think Damage probably would have REALLY got screwed if he had bought the car. Buying from a trustworthy seller is worth its weight in gold.

 

[SCS2k]

I agree and disagree with what you say. Here's why.

From a legal perspective - and I am not a lawyer, so those who are are welcome to correct me - a car isn't sold unless and until you have a legal contract for the sale. Even if money changes hands for a deposit, I'm not sure there is a legal contract. If you have a written, signed agreement, then there is a legal contract. My understanding is that even an oral-only agreement - a conversation in which you agree to pay him $X and he agrees to sell you the car - is a legal contract, although it is more difficult to enforce if he then claims the conversation never took place.

However, in this case, there was no such agreement, so he was under no obligation to hold the car for Damage (unless he indicated he was going to do so). He was free to sell the car to someone else. Maybe it was slightly discourteous of him not to follow up with Damage, but that's about it.

However, all of that being said, there was absolutely no reason for the seller to lie about the car. Quite aside from the suspicious story about the car's maintenance history, it's clear to me that the seller was lying when he claimed that he sent Damage an e-mail. (Such claims are too convenient to be credible in most such instances, IMO.) And my immediate next thought is, if he's going to lie about sending a follow-up e-mail, what else is he lying about? The car's history? The car's condition? The car's ownership?

Do I think Damage got screwed? Not really; being treated with a lack of courtesy and professionalism is not so bad as being screwed. However, I think Damage probably would have REALLY got screwed if he had bought the car. Buying from a trustworthy seller is worth its weight in gold.

Well said

 

[PHOEN$X]

had a verbal agreement with the seller in addition to e-mails (written right?) that he was to sell the car to me.

What exactly was in the emails? If you have in writing that he accepted your offer to buy the car pending an inspection, I would think that would constitute a contract? Not that it matters now, but it might help clarify whether what the seller did was illegal, or simply immoral.

BTW I agree with the others that it definitely sounds like he had something to hide, and you probably would've been "damaged" had you purchased the car.

 

[CokerRat]

Even if money changes hands for a deposit, I'm not sure there is a legal contract. If you have a written, signed agreement, then there is a legal contract.

I've always viewed a deposit as a partial completion of the transaction. The seller is in essence agreeing to hold the car for you. The flipside is that the buyer HAS agreed to buy it. If, upon closer inspection, the buyer decides not to buy it, the seller does not have to return the deposit. Of course, if the reason for the buyer's change of mind has to do with fraudulent misrepresentation then it gets ugly... but in that event it's questionable whether the seller would refund your money anyway. It's dangerous to leave a deposit IMO unless you're confident you're dealing with a reputable individual or business and back it up with a written agreement with suitable escape clauses.

 

[Meeyatch1]

I don't mean to laugh at your bad luck but you buying a M3 out of spite is funny to me.
Seriously, I hope you enjoy the heck out of it.

It is okay. I was just so frustrated with the whole situation of looking for an NSX and then this guys screws me over like that, I just figured, 'Screw it...I have never owned an M3...I will get that instead,' and bought one over the Internet in 25 minutes. Yes, I am impulsive sometimes.

Funny part was when BMW treated me really poorly with my M3 on a warranty issues I told them, 'Look..I am about to trade in the M3. If you help me with this I will buy an M Roadster. If you screw me over, I am buying a Honda S2000,' and they said, 'Well we are not helping you,' and that was it. So I got on the phone and ordered an S2000. No, I really do not tolerate bad service. Yes, I go through lots of cars. Yes, I am pretty picking about my automobiles.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Funny part was when BMW treated me really poorly with my M3 on a warranty issues

I have heard that same thing from others. That is one reason why I won't/don't own any BMW products. Service is awful.

 

[Tony Montoya]

A deposit on a car is always refundable.

 

[nsxtasy]

A deposit on a car is always refundable.

I'm not sure that that is always legally true, and not everywhere. Are you an attorney?

Also, even in those states and jurisdictions and situations where a refund is required by law, you may have a tough time collecting it.

 

[Soichiro]

>>A deposit on a car is always refundable.

HUH? Not in my experience. A deposit might be refundable if the car is not in the condition advertised. But when someone shows up and says "beautiful car, just as you described, but I've changed my mind" they do NOT get their deposit back from me.

Ask me how I know this :--) .