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Video: NSX engine blows up on nitrous

Joined
26 September 2000
Messages
104
Location
Portland, OR
http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=204

The owner claims this engine has been rebuilt with twin turbos and direct port nitrous. He says a minimum of 600 rwhp is attainable. Sounds like wishful thinking to me, but maybe the NSX aftermarket has evolved since I got out of it in 2000.

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http://www.enkahoi.com
 
Just to clarify a few things: The engine is not finished yet, and the 600RWHP is certainly obtainable with the use of turbos and NOS. There are several owners on this board that have over 500 with just turbo.

Rob
 
I guess there are a few people that are afraid to modify their car. The NSX is not fast enough (for me) without modifying it. I love the way the car looks and that is the reason for having it.
 
There is nothing wrong with modding the car for more power!

After NSXPO, I am convinced SC is the way to go over Turbo as the Turbo cars there had TONS of problems.

I didn't get a ride in the NOS cars, but they sound pretty amazing.
 
Nitrous is a different animal than any other FI. When you hit your nitrous button you get instant 150hp (in my case, or whatever you are running). It feels like someone rear ends you. Literally.
 
Originally posted by 5inchfatlip:
I would say heat on the track for turbo cars...

So does this implies that the Porsche 911 Turbo would not be a good track car?

I am interested in hearing about problems, if any, that are particular to NSX turbo setups...
 
Originally posted by 8000RPM:
So does this implies that the Porsche 911 Turbo would not be a good track car?

Yeah...I suppose the Ferrari F40 is a poor track car too.
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All those turbo problems must have been from poor design I guess...maybe you can expand on what kind of problems they were having. Thanks.
 
well- didnt mean to bust on turbo cars in general, just thinking it COULD be a problem since the NSX wasnt designed for a turbo, and without the proper cooling such as an IC, Radiator, Oil, and so on the heat the turbo produces could cause a problem...all in the setup of the acutual turbo NSX too would make the difference..
 
One concern I would have with putting a turbo on the NSX is that there is no complete kit available; any installation is a custom one. So that means you would have to figure out all the various components and make sure they match each other, and work with existing NSX components (ECU, clutch, etc) or replace them as needed.

Some of the superchargers - particularly the Comptech - are a complete kit and have been on the market long enough, with enough installations, to figure out all the gotchas and engineer components to overcome them. That is the process that the BBSC is going through now; even with its 30(?) installations it is not yet a final design, although it should be by some time next year, I would think.

There is no turbo package on the market, let alone one that has 30-50 installations. Any turbo installation will have to go through the same process of shaking out the bugs that the superchargers have done. And there could very well be engines destroyed during that process. They won't be the first NSX engines blown up by installing a turbo, as Runutzzz will attest.
 
Originally posted by 5inchfatlip:
well- didnt mean to bust on turbo cars in general, just thinking it COULD be a problem since the NSX wasnt designed for a turbo, and without the proper cooling such as an IC, Radiator, Oil, and so on the heat the turbo produces could cause a problem...all in the setup of the acutual turbo NSX too would make the difference..

It seems a common misconception that turbo cars produce more heat, or run hotter. Heat is a byproduct of combustion. Burn more fuel, make more power and more heat. (yes, that seems contradictory to the fact that if it’s too lean you run hot, but that’s a different subject) Unlike an SC, a turbo efficiently recycles some of that otherwise wasted energy, but the fact that the exhaust runs through a heavy hunk of iron in the process means that you do get a hot-spot there. However, that has nothing to do with engine operating temperature. Traditional turbos do heat the oil, which passes through the turbo, but a small cooler solves that. Most twin turbo NSXs use the Aerodyne turbos which do not rely on engine oil so they are free from even that issue. Compressing the intake charge generates heat but that's no different for SC, and isn't a factor in engine running temperature anyway. Likewise an IC is good thing, and necessary with more than a few pounds of boost (our TTs have two), but won’t directly impact running temp. In other words, engine cooling should not be an issue.

As for not being built for turbos, they aren't built for SC either, neither of which mean anything if the system design is based on what they *are*.

I'd still like to hear more about the many problems you observed.
 
In fairness to Runutzz's turbos.... I am pretty sure that Robert's motor problems were not simply because of the turbo. Most recently, he had a coolant issue that caused the engine to overheat, creating issues with his headgasket. The only other thing I am aware of is when running on low octane gas on a cross country drive he lost a cylinder while pushing high-speeds.

That said, the problems with turbos and NSX's are exactly what Ken stated, to this point everything is custom. While one guy's can be strong, well-tuned and reliable... it has been very difficult to replicate the success consistently car to car do to the custom nature and lack of experienced NSX tuners in the U.S. I think this problem is the process of working itself out right now as there are many more people developing NSX specific turbo applications. With better standalone fmu's coming out and more tuners gaining NSX experience, the whole community will benefit, turbo apps/SC apps/ & NA advances.
 
I would like to be able to tell more about the problems there, but I don't know what was wrong with them. I do know they were spilling oil all over the place. I think one of them was black flagged. I know they tried to fix the problems a couple of times while we were there, but I don't think they had any luck. I think both cars were using the aerodyne TT setup.

They can tell you a lot more than me... I wish I knew more.. sorry.
 
Ah, one of those TT systems was a former Aerodyne setup but had other turbos (and related parts) grafted on literally two days before NSXPO so they had no time to resolve issues. It was pushing oil out of the crankcase into the intake and elsewhere. This is not just a turbo problem by any means. Many of the BBSC cars had exactly the same problem and made quite a mess, but got the issue fixed in the past few weeks. So if that was the only kind of problem you heard about then it's hardly cause for concern.
 
I agree with much of what Ken and Sig have said, except that I don't place all that much importance on the tuner having NSX experience. Selecting the right hardware is important (as with any car), but once the system design is set then I'd look for a tuner with experience in the selected fuel management system even if that experience is not on the NSX. Not to say there is no value in NSX experience, I just don't see it as the main ingredient.
 
Originally posted by NetViper:
There is nothing wrong with modding the car for more power!

After NSXPO, I am convinced SC is the way to go over Turbo as the Turbo cars there had TONS of problems.

I didn't get a ride in the NOS cars, but they sound pretty amazing.

WOW, that is certainly a change of heart on you supercharger opinions! Just curious, feel any different about the BBSC at all?

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Jason
 
I was one of the two turbo cars there. It was not heat related (jeez!). I just had a sticky accuator on one of my turbos. Had to lube it and everything was fine. I also had some oil blow-by occurring, but it was no big deal. I ran with boost all 3 track days and did not miss one driving session.
Additionally, my turbo system had 7 years and 60,000 miles on it before the first sign of problems. That includes MANY track events (even in the Summer!).

The other turbo car was Ben Beckert. He just converted to Mitsubishi turbos and even arrived 1 day late since he was converting from Bell TT to these Mitsubishis. He had some oil-related problems, but his turbo system was really not complete yet. He ran many of the track sessions, but the smoke coming from his blow-by became a problem when he was hitting the accelerator hard. This, of course, was not an issue on the "track session" back to the hotel each night
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Originally posted by true:
What turbocharger kit did you drive netviper?

I didn't get to drive one
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.. I just watched them spewing oil and smoke all over the track.
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I was a little scared of turbo kits after the weekend and seeing the trouble. I know I am not alone on that feeling. I am not putting the kits down. I am sure they were great at one time, but both didn't look so good to me.

The think the BBSC is a great kit, and will be REALLY great when it is done, but for me I think comptech is the way to go. (if i had the $$ that is).
 
Originally posted by nsxlover:
Just to clarify a few things: The engine is not finished yet, and the 600RWHP is certainly obtainable with the use of turbos and NOS. There are several owners on this board that have over 500 with just turbo.

Rob
rob do you know whose car it was? was it yours before you shipped it out to gerry to beef up and before the motor work was begun?
david
 
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