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public availability announcement of the BaschBoost Supercharger System

With regard to the discussion in this thread about speculation on the power curve using the Novi 2000: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16648

It appears to me that the dyno graph on the newly launched BBSC site shows a stronger low-end than the previous BBSC dynos I've seen. I do not know if this is because of changes to the kit, or simply because it is tuned properly and the other BBSC dynos I have seen were not.

In any event, it also clearly shows the system still builds power linearly with RPM (as you would expect from a centrifugal blower).

Specifically, the graph shows that the BBSC still takes until 5000-5500+ RPM to make the power produced by the positive displacement superchargers (GMSC, CTSC) at around 3000 RPM. And, as before, the top-end (from maybe 6500-8000 RPM) on the BBSC is stronger than any of the positive displacement options.

I'd still like to see answers to my questions about the boost profile, aftercooler or other mods recommended and the benefit derived from them, cost, etc. but I think it's safe to say that while the BBSC now produces more power than stock at the low-end, the fundamental torque curve characteristics relative to the other kits (linear increase vs. relatively flat) remain unchanged.

The BaschBoost and SOS websites both show a price of $6500, so I guess the price is unchanged even with the Novi 2000 unit? If so, that is nice to hear.
 
So Lud, in other words... for street driving, the Comptech and Gruppe M are better solutions because of the low end torque. For track driving, the BBSC will give the most performance. Sound about right?
 
NetViper said:
So Lud, in other words... for street driving, the Comptech and Gruppe M are better solutions because of the low end torque. For track driving, the BBSC will give the most performance. Sound about right?

While most people typically want power at the top end for the track and across a wider range for street driving, I would not say one is better for a given application than the other based strictly on power because there are so many other factors involved in selecting an aftermarket forced induction kit. Others may disagree, but that is my opinion.

I think everyone needs to evaluate each of the available options as a whole and determine which one suits them best. For example, if your primary interest is low-end "kick in the butt" power for the street, you should also evaluate going with a turbo or maybe nitrous. But again there are MANY other factors you need to look at there aside from the dyno graph!

Power (be it low end, top end, area under the curve, etc.) is certainly a factor in any informed purchase decision, because power is the whole reason for going with forced induction to begin with! But it's just that: one factor in a decision with many different factors. Every solution has pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses... and whether you see something as a pro or con may simply depend on your point of view! Sorry if I sound like Clinton, but so many aspects of deciding on a forced induction setup come down to personal priorities...

Personally, 10% - 15% more or less power at the low or high end is not at the top of my priority list when talking about forced induction systems as a whole, but everyone's priorities are different.

I do, however, think people definitely need to be aware of these types of differences. The characteristics of the added power are really key to any intelligent dicussion about these kits and understanding how they differ from each other, how they affect real-world performance, and how they change the character of the car. And people need to know those things in order to decide what is right for them.
 
Lud said:
I'd still like to see answers to my questions about the boost profile, aftercooler or other mods recommended and the benefit derived from them, cost, etc. but I think it's safe to say that while the BBSC now produces more power than stock at the low-end, the fundamental torque curve characteristics relative to the other kits (linear increase vs. relatively flat) remain unchanged.
I think you've pretty much answered your own questions with respect to the boost profiles. Nice when the measured data conforms with the theory.

Regarding the aftercoolers, based on some simple modeling and subsequent confirming data (in connection with M3 upgrades) - it appears that anything short of a grossly inefficient aftercooler will show improvement, as the increased charge density in any sane case will more than offset the psi drop (post-aftercooler). This is without even increasing boost. In addition, for the HP addicted, the aftercooler will let you run more boost and/or more timing advance to gain even more HP. Without the aftercooler, the M3 was showing run-to-run drops on the dyno, whereas with the aftercooler, the consecutive pulls were all pretty consistent. Something to think about for track hounds, where heat soak is a real issue.

The foregoing is a moot point for CTSC owners, however, since it would be hard to position an aftercooler between the SC and the intake and still maintain the tidy packaging.
 
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Number9 said:
I think you've pretty much answered your own questions with respect to the boost profiles. Nice when the measured data conforms with the theory.

The graph shows dyno results, but being a car geek I am still curious about many technical details, which the web site is very light on.

How over-driven is the 2000 blower in this application (meaning, what would PSI be at 8000 RPM if it did not waste any boost)?

Above what PSI does it waste boost?

How much effect is there from heat-soak with prolonged high-RPM boost (such as at the track) with no aftercooler?

How much does the aftercooler improve performance?

How much does the aftercooler cost, and it is officially supported?
 
Lud said:
The graph shows dyno results, but being a car geek I am still curious about many technical details, which the web site is very light on.

How over-driven is the 2000 blower in this application (meaning, what would PSI be at 8000 RPM if it did not waste any boost)?

Above what PSI does it waste boost?

How much effect is there from heat-soak with prolonged high-RPM boost (such as at the track) with no aftercooler?

How much does the aftercooler improve performance?

How much does the aftercooler cost, and it is officially supported?


Lud just spend the $6500 and you will see how it works. :rolleyes: That's what I was told. Good luck getting all the facts about it. That webpage has about 3% of the info I am looking for, more of a sales add then anything else.
 
Seeing that Mark rarely visits the site, it would be a more efficient and effective use of time to contact him directly either by phone or via email. Waiting around on a forum for all the right information to land at your feet can be frustrating.
 
Sig said:
Seeing that Mark rarely visits the site, it would be a more efficient and effective use of time to contact him directly either by phone or via email. Waiting around on a forum for all the right information to land at your feet can be frustrating.

Actually I was thinking just the opposite. There has been so many rumors, speculation, mis information, 1/2 truths, problems that no longer exist, etc. it would be a MUCH better use of EVERYONE'S time if these items were collectively answered and discussed so that everyone has access to the same information, support, etc.

I think like many others that this system has strengths, weaknesses, pros, and cons like any other. The trick seems to be to get to all the information so that as a buyer you can make an intelligent decision and nobody ends up with their expectations and money down the drain. I also think that most of us can spot a troll, a basher, etc so that people with "ulterior" motives will quickly be filtered out.

I think if someone dedicated a certain amount of time to answering the information collectively instead of fielding the same questions over and over again by phone / email that everyone would have a central repository for the facts and buyers/users would begin to help themselves to information.

These are interesting aftermarket FI times and Mark has done a lot for this community so I definitely respect the man and wish him well.

YMMV
 
spurcr

Ryanmcd2 said:
Lud just spend the $6500 and you will see how it works. :rolleyes: That's what I was told. Good luck getting all the facts about it. That webpage has about 3% of the info I am looking for, more of a sales add then anything else.

Ryan, Well- you have one fact correct- almost. The website is about 25 per cent complete, rather than 39- but it was my choice to start with what I had time to finish in between phone calls and installs. If I had waited any longer, the critical drumbeats just get louder. If I come over with what I have so far, the critical drumbeats get louder. If any one who works for me or one of my dealers actually said, "just buy it and find out for yourself", I would be shocked and dissapointed. I suggest you have embellished just a little. If not I apologize TO YOU, and FOR MY rep.

To answer the most asked about relevant question, by the closest thing to a voice of reason, it would be Luds question about overdriving- how much and what levels. None, and None.
The 2k, despite the opinions of some here who think the 2k upgrade is a scam, makes more power lower strictly as a result of CFM, which equates to two very minor issues you may be aware of. Air and fuel density. Boost may be boost, but 6psi at 800 cfm, and 6 psi at 1150cfm, are night and day animals.

More info on all aspects of the newer system will be forthcoming. In the meantime, the site went live because several magazine and tv stories have flooded our phones, and our e-mail and tech support needed a central home. That is why the site is up. For those who think it lacks enough info to justify a purchase, please,
PLEASE do not do so yet. I have been serving the NSX community longer than ANYBODY on these pages- 11 years to be exact, and will be here for many, MANY more. Every other kit coming out sounds REALY good, but who are the builders, what are their customer treatment ideals, and just how much NSXpertise do they possess. Experience?
Again, the voice of reason- Lud suggets, there are many new kits out there and they do different things for different people- ask questions and choose wisely.

MB
 
Re: spurcr

NSXTech said:
Ryan, Well- you have one fact correct- almost. The website is about 25 per cent complete, rather than 39- but it was my choice to start with what I had time to finish in between phone calls and installs. If I had waited any longer, the critical drumbeats just get louder. If I come over with what I have so far, the critical drumbeats get louder. If any one who works for me or one of my dealers actually said, "just buy it and find out for yourself", I would be shocked and dissapointed. I suggest you have embellished just a little. If not I apologize TO YOU, and FOR MY rep.

To answer the most asked about relevant question, by the closest thing to a voice of reason, it would be Luds question about overdriving- how much and what levels. None, and None.
The 2k, despite the opinions of some here who think the 2k upgrade is a scam, makes more power lower strictly as a result of CFM, which equates to two very minor issues you may be aware of. Air and fuel density. Boost may be boost, but 6psi at 800 cfm, and 6 psi at 1150cfm, are night and day animals.

More info on all aspects of the newer system will be forthcoming. In the meantime, the site went live because several magazine and tv stories have flooded our phones, and our e-mail and tech support needed a central home. That is why the site is up. For those who think it lacks enough info to justify a purchase, please,
PLEASE do not do so yet. I have been serving the NSX community longer than ANYBODY on these pages- 11 years to be exact, and will be here for many, MANY more. Every other kit coming out sounds REALY good, but who are the builders, what are their customer treatment ideals, and just how much NSXpertise do they possess. Experience?
Again, the voice of reason- Lud suggets, there are many new kits out there and they do different things for different people- ask questions and choose wisely.

MB



Thanks man and good post. I am going to be honest, I bitch a lot and rant and rave all day but it's because I want more info. I don't think your product is crap I just do not know too much about it. I think your site will be nice and you are right you have been doing this a long time and I talked to you in 99 about the CTSC and you were supernice. I hope you get some help and get all the bugs worked out and have yourself or someone else put some dyno's up as before and after and all the info one could want about aftercoolers, low compression, CARB, and if I goto 9.5 can I pass emisions? Also what about running one with a Motec or say the EMS thing? Can it be a option and when I do emisions just plug the stock ecu in and remove the charger? I know you will get all this done in time and I will wait to see how it goes. Again sorry for bitching and being a ass about your charger, just would LOVE to see it with a stand alone computer.


Thanks
Ryan
 
Ryan-

The AEM EMS will be an option on the kit. In my last conversation with Mark, he indicated that he has a set of base maps to work from now, however there will be more effort going forward on tuning the stand alone AEM.

The AEM will be a premium over the base kit cost, not sure by how much though.

The AEM is something I am thinking about upgrading to on my car.
 
***DISCLAIMER***** I KNOW JACK SHIT!!!

OK, well I would have to imagine that if the only thing you used from the BBSC package was the mechanical blower and you used your own injectors and standalone and a good tuner that you could get pretty excellent results.
 
Not really. You would have to engineer your own drivetline crossmember hookup thingamajig in order to hookup a pulley/belt to the gearing of the blower. Not exactly a home depot diy.

There are other gotchas, but that was the first one to jump in my head.
 
Oh I actually meant the entire mechanical assembly to get the compressed air into the throttle body, not just the charger itself! I didn't mean home-depoting out on just the blower!!!
 
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