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Say goodbye to 94 octane

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As of tomorrow there will no longer be any Sunco Ultra 94 octane sold in NY. The mtbe's used have been declared illegal in NY and the best you will be able to do is 93. At least that is better than in California where we could only get 91.
 
Bob,

In fact, I read the following awhile ago, and was quite confused what the implication of this policy was (whether it's a good thing or bad thing):

sunoco1.jpg


sunoco2.jpg
 
I wonder if Jersey will eventually be affected. Do we qualify as "New England"
 
Will the 1 point in octane really make a difference? I didn't notice when I put in 93 versus 94.
 
Jay, to answar your ? will it make a difference-no.I have used 100 and felt no sig increase in performance.I think RSO is just testing the waters for a class action suit!:p :D
 
So does anyone know what they are replacing the MTBE with? I thought that there was a Federal requirement to have an oxygen bearing component in the fuel mixture to create a leaner burn. I suppose it would help with knock resistance as well. I assume that they will use methonal...or did the EPA reg go away once they found out that MTBE pollutes the water table? Does anyone know why the companies used MTBE instead of methonal in the first place? I suppose I could research this myself, but I admit my laziness. I do know that the fuel lines on older cars will have trouble at some level of methonal content; don't remember the ratio. BTW, unless you have a very high CR or are FIed, you don't need 94 Octane anyway...waste of money in a stock NSX. Another aside, MTBE reduces the energy content per gallon of gas. When they added this stuff everyone immediately got about 3% worse gas mileage, tough to notice, but real.
 
:) The Sunoco brochure is funny in how it skirts around the issue "Why should I buy Ultra 93?"

Really, there is no reason for most people to buy Ultra 93. Buying gas with an octane rating above the what the car is designed for has no performance benefit. The anti-knock capability is only necessary if you are running boosted or modified engine. The brochure should say to buy what the car-maker recomends.
 
JPS Europa said:
So does anyone know what they are replacing the MTBE with? I thought that there was a Federal requirement to have an oxygen bearing component in the fuel mixture to create a leaner burn. I suppose it would help with knock resistance as well. I assume that they will use methonal...or did the EPA reg go away once they found out that MTBE pollutes the water table? Does anyone know why the companies used MTBE instead of methonal in the first place? I suppose I could research this myself, but I admit my laziness. I do know that the fuel lines on older cars will have trouble at some level of methonal content; don't remember the ratio.

I don't know what they are using, but I am bored so I looked up the answer to your methanol question... looks like you are right about the problems with fuel lines. I'm quoting from J. Heywood's "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals" (A very good reference book IMHO)

"MTBE gasoline blends have good water stability, and MTBE has little effect on vapor pressure and material compatibility

Methanol ... has near- and long-term potential. .... Problems with these blends include poor solubility in gasoline in the pressence of water; toxicity; an energy content about half that of gasoline; high latent heat of vaporization and oxygen content which contribute to poor driveability; incompatibility with many commonly used metals and elastomers; blending effects on gasoline volatility which may force the displacement of large volumes of butane. Some of these problems can be partially reduced by using cosolvents such as TBA or isobutanol."
 
dlongo said:
Methanol ... has near- and long-term potential. .... Problems with these blends include poor solubility in gasoline in the pressence of water; toxicity; an energy content about half that of gasoline; high latent heat of vaporization and oxygen content which contribute to poor driveability; incompatibility with many commonly used metals and elastomers; blending effects on gasoline volatility which may force the displacement of large volumes of butane. Some of these problems can be partially reduced by using cosolvents such as TBA or isobutanol."

I used to watch and tape every Motorweek Magazine show avidly until it was no longer shown on WLIW. This was several years ago, but I have the tape somewhere of this episode where Pat Goss (Goss' Garage) talks about Isopropyl vs. Methanol gas line antifreeze (dry gas). He said to always use Isopropyl dry gas because it mixes the water with the gas and burns thru the system, where Methanol doesn't. Isopropyl dry gas is the only product I have ever used in my NSX and does a good job in keeping the moisture out of the tank.

I just filled up my Prelude this morning at a Sunoco station and sure enough, Premium is now tagged at 91, and Ultra is 93. Other brands (Amoco, Exxon, etc.) are selling their 93 cheaper than Sunoco's 93 at Ultra 94 prices.
 
Is Isopropyl dry gas the same thing as Isopropyl alcohol? It's a lot cheaper to by the alcohol in a supermarket/drug store than it is to buy the dry gas at the autoparts store.
 
NSXLNT said:
Is Isopropyl dry gas the same thing as Isopropyl alcohol? It's a lot cheaper to by the alcohol in a supermarket/drug store than it is to buy the dry gas at the autoparts store.

Hi Keith,

Good question and no, it is not the same. That was also addressed in the show and Pat Goss said the Isopropyl alcohol purchased over-the-counter (aka rubbing alcohol) is already saturated with all the water it can handle, and should never be used in the gas tank. Whereas, Isopropyl "dry gas" is mixed properly to remove the moisture from the tank, and burn thru the system. As mentioned on my previous post, Methanol dry gas does not remove moisture like Isopropyl does.
 
Over the counter IPA is 30% water. Not the thing to use for dry gas. You can get it cheaper at a chemical supply house, but not nearly as convenient (and how often do you really need the stuff?)
 
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