Bbsc install by Payne technologies

[prova4re]

Bbsc install by Payn technologies

My car is going under the knife this winter, and Devin Pearce from www.payntechnologies.com is doing all the work.
If you pick up the January issue of Modified magazine you will see why I chose him to tackle this project.
I have done the following to my car.
Teins RA
Prodrives
Sos hids
Comptech sway bars
Tubi
Jdm tail lights
WW sides and rears
Square Craft mirrors
Alpine nav, changer, Tv tuner, DVD head unit, Amp
Ps2
Cb radio
Back up camera

My goal for my Nsx was to enhance the stock look with out making it look to radical.

Now its time to work on the engine.
After reading all the info in this section I was a little concerned about the BBSC.
You here allot about cars that had there engines fail etc.
Its my understanding it failed because of the SS fuel management system.
NOT the fault of Mark B, I don't think its fair to bad mouth his SC kit when it was not his fault that it failed.
The bottom line is he did fix the motors that failed and made the customers happy one-way or the other.
Most of those customers were BETA testers and knew what they were getting into. IMO

This is why I chose to go with the AEM system insted.
Having a good tuner shop so close was the key in my descion to buy the BBSC and AEM.

The AEM system is so complex that you need a good tuner to dial it in on any car. But you need a great tuner to dial it in on a NSX.
This thread is not meant to start a BBSC war, Devin and myself will be posting pics on the progress of my car .

Work to be done includes.
Drop the engine out of the car.
BBSC install 2000 blower 8lb pulley with AEM.
Comptech headers.
Water pump and timing belt.
Clutch install.
Fix the oil leaking on to the headers.
Replace Vtech seals, cam seals. and hoses.
Brembo Indy brakes.


Step one dyno the car before install.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288402995&congratulation_page=Y
My car on the 4 wheel Mustang dyno.

My stock 1991 3.0 with a Tubi........ 242.8 hp

Devins car with a low comp BBSC 3.2 vs My stock 3.0 with a Tubi

 

[sjs]

Now that's the kind of results I've been expecting. Very nice.

 

[PaynNSX]

Brian, Don't forget our project manager for your install:

 

[NetViper]

Good luck.

The dyno of the BBSC looks pretty good. Looks like the power is coming on a lot sooner than the first dynos.

You have obviously done your research, so I hope it all goes well. I am anxious to see your dyno!

 

[Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach]

Great Job - it's kool to see solid numbers behind a job with nothin skimped on like engine management etc . . . Happy Holidays!

Wolfie

 

[NetViper]

Just out of curiousity, what is the cost of the BBSC installed with the AEM vs the SS Box?

 

[peiserg]

mark quoted me (IIRC!) $1000 if you do the aem at the same time as the original install. $1800 if you upgrade later, as there is a "core" or trade-in issue with the manufacturer... this is ONLY available on the OBD 1 cars, IIRC... fine by me, since I am OBD2 and it saves me debating whether i should drop another grand on a completely frivolous expense (from the standpoint of "hmm.. do i REALLY need 400hp??")

 

[prova4re]

NetViper
I think the 8lb kit adds another $1,800.00 or so but you should call MB to make sure.

The AEM list is $1,595.00 but call SOS and see what they can do for you.

If MB installs the BBSC he does it for around $500.00 or so.
That is a good deal, he gives you a big break because you have to ship your car there.

I priced out the install from a few dealers, and they all quoted $1,200.00+
Devin is hooking me up because they are doing allot of other work to my car.

List price total is about $10,400.00 with install.
I did not pay that amount by a long shot.
MB will work with you on the price, the more you get done at one time the cheaper it is.

One of the other reasons I went the MB route was, I saw him at Nsxpo working like mad on all the cars without charging anyone anything. It didn't matter if you had a BBSC problem or a brake problem he fixed it all.

I did love Gerry Johnson's set up as well, and I will get it in a few years when he has more time and I have the funds.

Thanks Wolfie
I will send you some snow to make your Holidays more Happy!
Later Brian.

 

[tunapie]

Nice dyno sheet. I really like the linear power. Its nice not to see the on/off switch type power. Dan

 

[NSXecutor]

Does'nt the car have the air/liquid intercooler?

 

[PaynNSX]

Ready for complete gasket set, seals, timing belt/water pump, valve adjustment, clutch, and headers:

 

[RP-Motorsports]

Its nice to always see a local area car get boost! Hope to see you at Gingerman or Graten tracks next year!!!!

 

[jagtiger]

Hey Brian,

Good luck on the BBSC install - 400rwhp - wow! I probably need to save extra $$$ for the BBSC.
I may have PAYN TECH do my timing belt/water pump, engine gaskets and seals replaced soon.

Hey Devin,

Can you pls pm me cost estimate or ball park figure for this job? I have a 91 with 53k miles. Thanks!


Regards,

Henry

 

[Carguy!]

Re: Bbsc install by Payn technologies

My car is going under the knife this winter, and Devin Pearce from www.payntechnologies.com is doing all the work.
If you pick up the January issue of Modified magazine you will see why I chose him to tackle this project.
I have done the following to my car.
Teins RA
Prodrives
Sos hids
Comptech sway bars
Tubi
Jdm tail lights
WW sides and rears
Square Craft mirrors
Alpine nav, changer, Tv tuner, DVD head unit, Amp
Ps2
Cb radio
Back up camera

My goal for my Nsx was to enhance the stock look with out making it look to radical.

Now its time to work on the engine.
After reading all the info in this section I was a little concerned about the BBSC.
You here allot about cars that had there engines fail etc.
Its my understanding it failed because of the SS fuel management system.
NOT the fault of Mark B, I don't think its fair to bad mouth his SC kit when it was not his fault that it failed.
The bottom line is he did fix the motors that failed and made the customers happy one-way or the other.
Most of those customers were BETA testers and knew what they were getting into. IMO

This is why I chose to go with the AEM system insted.
Having a good tuner shop so close was the key in my descion to buy the BBSC and AEM.

The AEM system is so complex that you need a good tuner to dial it in on any car. But you need a great tuner to dial it in on a NSX.
This thread is not meant to start a BBSC war, Devin and myself will be posting pics on the progress of my car .

Work to be done includes.
Drop the engine out of the car.
BBSC install 2000 blower 8lb pulley with AEM.
Comptech headers.
Water pump and timing belt.
Clutch install.
Fix the oil leaking on to the headers.
Replace Vtech seals, cam seals. and hoses.
Brembo Indy brakes.


Step one dyno the car before install.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288402995&congratulation_page=Y
My car on the 4 wheel Mustang dyno.

My stock 1991 3.0 with a Tubi........ 242.8 hp

Devins car with a low comp BBSC 3.2 vs My stock 3.0 with a Tubi

It sounds like your car will be awesome! I look forward to another get together in the spring, we are going to have to set something up.

You can't go wrong with Devin and his shop, I took my Porsche in there to have it dynoed and could tell right away they are top notch.

Take care Brian!

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Brian

Just did the AEM on the BBSC with the Novi 2000, I still havent put the car on the dyno to do the final tune but the car runs very strong throughout the whole RPM range (noticable change from the SS box and Novi 1000). I am sure you'll be very happy with the kit. The AEM ecu is incredible, I didnt see it on your list but I would add the AEM dual wideband, it will make it easier to tune.

Armando

 

[NSXecutor]

Armando,

What was your first Dyno numbers with the basic BBSC, before the AEM & Novi 2000 upgrade?

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Its been a while but it was around 360. Difference is with the 1000 and ss box you felt a major difference around 5500 to 6000 rpm, with the 2000 it starts about 2500 rpm and continues to pull al the way to 8000. Im not running it to hard till I get the final tuning done. We will be dynoing next Sunday.

Armando

 

[prova4re]

Hi Armando
Did you get bigger injectors? Cant wait to see your dyno sheet.
I think Devin wants to start out with the 6lb pully, then upgrade to the 8lb later on. I think he has seen the way I drive and didnt want to get me into much trouble on the Players Run.
Devin is doing the tuning on his dyno, with some of his custom maping.

jagtiger
I was having a little coolant leaking out around the over flow bottle. I dint think to much of it until they put my car on the dyno, and told me it leaked all over there floor.
They said my water pump started to let go.
Perfect time for that to happen.

I wish my car would hit the 400hp mark. Devins car has alot more goodies than mine to get that kind of power.

Carguy!
Sounds like you are having way to much fun with that Porsche.
I have not heard you talk tp much about you Nsx.
How is it doing? We should plan an outing, it has been a year+.
How about a dyno day at Devins, with a nice drive to some place good to eat.
Do you still have your TR? I ended up selling mine.

NSXecutor
(Does'nt the car have the air/liquid intercooler? )
My car will not have one, Devins does.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Hi Armando
Did you get bigger injectors? Cant wait to see your dyno sheet.
I think Devin wants to start out with the 6lb pully, then upgrade to the 8lb later on. I think he has seen the way I drive and didnt want to get me into much trouble on the Players Run.
Devin is doing the tuning on his dyno, with some of his custom maping.

I am still running with the 440s , depending on what the tuning shows next week we will stay with the same or move up to 550s. When do you expect your car to be complete?

Armando

 

[kpond]

Armando,

This is the Novi 2000 naysayer here. It would be really great if you could post some boost pressure by rpm numbers. The data points that I have suggest that boost pressure by rpm is virtually identical between the Novi1000 and Novi2000... which, by the way, is what the guys at Paxton will say too.

Another disconnected data point for me is regarding the efficiency of the Novi2000. Is it really that much poorer than the 1000? In other words, if the Novi 2000 is providing a noticeable differentiation as low as 2500 rpm then that would have to mean at least 1-2 lbs of boost. I'm not sure any other way to generate additional "feelable" HP unless you have more boost. Assuming that is true... 1-2psi @ 2500 rpm and then "only" 6psi at 8000 rpm???

Anyway, someone with a Novi2000 could easily "show" the difference by simply data-logging during a dyno run. The SS will capture boost and rpm simultaneously. Unfortunately, I think what we'll find is that the Novi1000 and 2000 characteristics are very similar.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Armando,

This is the Novi 2000 naysayer here. It would be really great if you could post some boost pressure by rpm numbers. The data points that I have suggest that boost pressure by rpm is virtually identical between the Novi1000 and Novi2000... which, by the way, is what the guys at Paxton will say too.

Another disconnected data point for me is regarding the efficiency of the Novi2000. Is it really that much poorer than the 1000? In other words, if the Novi 2000 is providing a noticeable differentiation as low as 2500 rpm then that would have to mean at least 1-2 lbs of boost. I'm not sure any other way to generate additional "feelable" HP unless you have more boost. Assuming that is true... 1-2psi @ 2500 rpm and then "only" 6psi at 8000 rpm???

Anyway, someone with a Novi2000 could easily "show" the difference by simply data-logging during a dyno run. The SS will capture boost and rpm simultaneously. Unfortunately, I think what we'll find is that the Novi1000 and 2000 characteristics are very similar.

KPOND

Dont know if I can answer any of your questions, I am running the AEM and I dont know if it logs like the SS box. So far , seat of the pants the car is a rocket, car starts pulling from around 2000 rpm and would continue to do so if the rev limiter didnt do its job, I will be dynoing the car next week and doing the final tuning, I will ask AEM if I can record the rpm/boost. I dont know if this means anything, but with the 2000 you can hear the waste gate from inside the car when with the 1000 you couldnt. (Much more air being pushed through same waste gate = louder sound right?)


Hope this helped or reinforced your sceptic view.

Armando

 

[kpond]

Armando,

As much of a skeptic as I am re: Novi 2000 benefits, I really think that a properly tuned AEM will provide much better HP/torque across the board as compared to the SS. It is simply a matter of having much better & direct control of timing and fuel. It is great that your car is running so well! I've just been too busy to tune mine after the new SS box. I really have to get around to it. I really thought it was running well with the older SS box but initially it is too rich now and not producing good HP. I'm still thinking of the AEM (posts like yours definitely reinforce this) and I would go to the Novi2000 if I became convinced that it really was better. Trust me, I want to be wrong.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Armando,

As much of a skeptic as I am re: Novi 2000 benefits, I really think that a properly tuned AEM will provide much better HP/torque across the board as compared to the SS. It is simply a matter of having much better & direct control of timing and fuel. It is great that your car is running so well! I've just been too busy to tune mine after the new SS box. I really have to get around to it. I really thought it was running well with the older SS box but initially it is too rich now and not producing good HP. I'm still thinking of the AEM (posts like yours definitely reinforce this) and I would go to the Novi2000 if I became convinced that it really was better. Trust me, I want to be wrong.

I'll post as soon as I come back from the dyno.

Armando

 

[prova4re]

Armando
I thought it would take a couple of months because I was not in a rush for it.
Devin just told me he is ready to install the engine back in some time this week.
It looks like it might be done by the new year.

I wonder how much of a difference the 550 injectors will make compared to the 440s.
Later Brian.

 

[PaynNSX]

I am running the AEM and I dont know if it logs like the SS box....I will ask AEM if I can record the rpm/boost.

Armando

It deffinately will log (not to mention better resolution and much more data than the SS). I'm not trying to sway people one way or the other, just trying to answer the question.

As far as boost, the 1000 and 2000 should produce very similar boost logs vs. RPM. The biggest difference to consider is CFM between the two.