• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Toyo FZ4 for my new wheels

Joined
5 November 2003
Messages
275
Location
Plano, TX
Well, I can get some Toyo FZ4 in 275/35/18 and 215/40/17 for my new wheels. I did a search and only found one comment where someone said they didn't like them on stock rims. Does anyone have any feedback on the handling, sound, and wear of this tire?

A guy at Discount is telling me its a great tire compared to the Kuhmo ecsta 712 which is my favorite bang for buck tire. What do you think?
 
The FZ4 is an all-season tire. I really, really doubt that any all-season tire is going to have performance (in warm, dry conditions) anywhere near that of the top high-performance tires, or even that of the budget high-performance tires like the Yokohama ES100 (which stomps the Kumho Ecsta 712 in every way, according to the experts at the Tire Rack).

If you need an all-season tire because much of your driving is in rain and snow, it might be fine. But if you live in Texas, there are better tires to suit your needs.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for your response. Its funny you say the ES100 stomps the 712. I put the es100 on my M coupe and after coming from Falkin Azenis the es100's felt like mush and the steering was horrible off center. I don't remember feeling this way with the 712's on my old 93 NSX.

But the Toyo's should perform and wear similarly to the 712's I'm expecting. One thing I 've learned is that tires is about as controversial as religion in terms of what people approve and dissapprove of. However, when you look at reviews and they are consistently good or bad it can indicate trends. Most of the reviews I've seen speak praise of the FZ4 especially the handling and wear for the price. As they age the get noisy but thats kinda common for such tires. Does anyone have first hand feedback?
 
Evoking said:
I put the es100 on my M coupe and after coming from Falkin Azenis the es100's felt like mush and the steering was horrible off center. I don't remember feeling this way with the 712's on my old 93 NSX.
The Falken Azenis Sport (I assume you're talking about the Azenis Sport; Falken makes a lot of different models of tires with the Azenis name on them) is regarded as an excellent budget performance tire, with great dry traction, albeit generally terrible wet traction. But I wasn't referring to the Falken; I was referring to the ES100 and the Supra 712 tires.

Tire Rack has terrific test evaluations of the tires they carry. The Tire Rack did a direct comparison between the Kumho Ecsta 712 and the Yokohama AVS ES100 (along with the Sumitomo HTR Z II). You can read it on their website, here. The Yoko beat the Kumho in every category :eek: - that's right, 23 out of 23 categories. Here are the graphics of the test results:

image001.gif


image002.gif


image003.gif


image004.gif


image005.gif


image006.gif


image007.gif


image008.gif


The Tire Rack doesn't carry Falken or Toyo tires, so there are no tests on them. (My experience has been that they usually don't carry a given brand of tires for one of two reasons: (a) the tire manufacturer can't commit to supplying enough tires to meet demand, or (b) the tire manufacturer requires that their entire line of tires be carried, and they often make some excellent tires and others that are just plain crap.) However, I can only conclude that the Toyo FZ4 would be, at best, similar to other all-season tires. Which means their performance on dry roads is far, far worse than that of even the budget summer tires, let alone the best tires around. I wouldn't be surprised if no one here were using a Toyo FZ4 on an NSX for that reason.
 
Good post. I guess I just felt the ES100s were too soft on my coil overed M Coupe. Perhaps the 712's would have been just as soft. Incidentally aren't most tires "all season"? Even the famed Pilot Sport tires that come on the NSX and which I almost broke the bank and bought are "all season". Are they too, inadequate as you say for the NSX in Texas?

BTW, I'm moving to DC so an all season tire isn't a bad thing to me. But even if I weren't, unless you are going to primarily track the car, I don't see how a tire with "all season" on the side is not adequate enough to render an envolving enough, quite, long wear ownership experience.

I would 80% of the NSX nuts on this board have tires that say "all season" on the side even if they live in warm climates AND they are performance purists. It seems that if you don't track your car you could easliy find a good all around tire that doesn't diminsh the fun of driving the and perhaps the all season tire in many cases could even improve the feel. My OEM pilots fell great especially considering their relatively tall profiles compared to my new plus 1 fitments.
 
Evoking said:
Incidentally aren't most tires "all season"?
Many are; many aren't. Most tires supplied on family sedans like the Honda Accord, and on SUVs, are probably all-season tires. Most tires supplied on sports cars are not.

As usual, the Tire Rack website has a lot of useful information. You might want to check out their web page entitled Selecting the Right Tire (click here) and scroll down to the heading, "Do I need summer tires, winter tires, all-season tires…?" Another useful page on their site is this one, which describes each of their performance categories.

The thing to keep in mind about all-season tires is that they are designed for cars that are going to be used at least occasionally on snow. Their design objectives are that they perform okay - not great, but okay - in snow, and they perform okay - not great, but okay - in warm weather. If a car is probably never going to be driven in snow - like an NSX in the Sunbelt, or an NSX in the north which is stored for the winter - then there is no reason to use all-season tires on it.

Evoking said:
Even the famed Pilot Sport tires that come on the NSX and which I almost broke the bank and bought are "all season".
The NSX does not come from the factory with Michelin Pilot Sport tires. The only tires that come on the NSX from the factory are the Yokohama A022H and the Bridgestone RE010 on the '91-01 NSX, and the Bridgestone RE040 on the '02-04 NSX. These tires were all designed specifically for the NSX.

There are five models of "Michelin Pilot Sport" tires:

Pilot Sport
Pilot Sport PS2
Pilot Sport Rib
Pilot Sport Cup (track tire)
Pilot Sport A/S

Only the last of these is an all-season tire (hence the A/S designation). Most of the Pilot Sport tires that NSX owners are using are not the A/S version. In fact, I have never heard of even a single NSX owner using the Pilot Sport A/S tire. If you have them, you are the first mentioned here.

Evoking said:
Are they too, inadequate as you say for the NSX in Texas?
Maybe "inadequate" is not the right word. But "inappropriate", yes.

In buying tires, you need to decide what is most important to you - handling, traction on dry pavement, traction on wet pavement, traction on snow or ice, price, longevity, etc. It's a matter of your personal preferences, as well as the environment in which you use your car. If you drive your NSX in a spirited manner - occasionally enjoying a twisty road or highway ramp, for example - then a tire's cornering ability will be important. If all your miles are highway miles and your driving style is sedate, maybe not. But if you never drive in snow or ice, then the tire's capability in snow and ice is irrelevant, in which case you are better off with a tire that performs better the rest of the time.

The good news is, if you are not sure what kind of tires to get, you can always call the nice folks at the Tire Rack (sorry for the repeated plug; I am not affiliated with them, but their prices, service, and knowledge are great) and they can ask you the questions and give you the advice for the tires that are best for you. They can even ship them direct to one of their local installers in your area, where you can get them mounted.

Evoking said:
BTW, I'm moving to DC so an all season tire isn't a bad thing to me. But even if I weren't, unless you are going to primarily track the car, I don't see how a tire with "all season" on the side is not adequate enough to render an envolving enough, quite, long wear ownership experience.
Again, it depends on how you drive your car. If you enjoy even just an occasional high speed blast, you will want tires that have great handling and dry performance. Even if you never take your car on a racetrack. But if you never drive in snow, then there is no reason to get an all-season tire, with the compromises it has in warm weather (e.g. the more "mushy" ride, poorer braking distances, etc.) in order to accommodate its better performance in snow and ice.

Evoking said:
I would 80% of the NSX nuts on this board have tires that say "all season" on the side even if they live in warm climates AND they are performance purists.
That's just not true at all. (Remember, I've been to every NSXPO, and there are over 100 NSXs at each one, including many of "the NSX nuts on this board".) I would say that at least 95 percent of the NSX nuts on this board have tires that do not say "all season" on the side. Polls here have shown that approximately 40 percent of the folks here are using the OEM tires (Yokohama A022H, Bridgestone RE010, Bridgestone RE040) on their NSX. Just off the top of my head, I would guess that well over 90 percent of the folks here are using one of the following tires on their NSX for everyday street use (i.e. excluding track tires and winter tires):

Yokohama A022H (OEM)
Bridgestone RE010 (OEM)
Bridgestone RE040 (OEM)
Bridgestone Potenza S-03
Michelin Pilot Sport
Yokohama AVS Sport
Bridgestone Potenza S-02
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3
Kumho Ecsta MX
Dunlop SP Sport 9000
Pirelli PZero (various formulations)
Kumho Ecsta Supra 712
Sumitomo HTR Z II
Yokohama AVS ES100

None of these tires are all-season tires.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet you the price of admission (around $250-300) that if we meet at NSXPO 2004 (to be held in Upstate New York October 8-12) and count all the different tires used on NSXs there, less than 10 percent of them use tires that say "all season" on the sidewall. (I'm dead serious if you're interested in making this wager.)

Evoking said:
It seems that if you don't track your car you could easliy find a good all around tire that doesn't diminsh the fun of driving the and perhaps the all season tire in many cases could even improve the feel.
Sorry, but that's just not true at all, either.

Evoking said:
My OEM pilots fell great especially considering their relatively tall profiles compared to my new plus 1 fitments.
The Michelin Pilot is not considered an OEM tire, meaning that it was never supplied as original equipment on the NSX. And I bet the Michelin Pilot tires that you're using aren't all-season tires, either.

This is the Michelin Pilot Sport, which is not an all-season tire:

mi_pilot_sport.jpg


This is the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2, which is not an all-season tire:

mi_pilot_sport_ps2_ci2_l.jpg


This is the Michelin Pilot Sport Rib, which is not an all-season tire:

mi_pilot_sport_rib_ci2_l.jpg


This is the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, which is a track tire, not an all-season tire:

mi_pilot_sport_cup.jpg


This is the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, which is an all-season tire:

mi_pilot_sport_as_ci2_l.jpg


Which version of the Michelin Pilot Sport is on your NSX?
 
Last edited:
Evoking said:
It seems that if you don't track your car you could easliy find a good all around tire that doesn't diminsh the fun of driving the and perhaps the all season tire in many cases could even improve the feel.
As I mentioned, this isn't true at all.

The Tire Rack compared the Michelin Pilot Sport (their highest performance summer tire) with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (the all season version) and the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (their track tire). You can read the results here. Here are the graphs comparing the three:

image002.gif


image005.gif


image006.gif


image007.gif


image008.gif
 
I haven't heard anything but bad about the FZ4's from anyone who cares about performance. From what I understand, they aren't a true performance tire. Why not go with the T-1S?

I had 712's on my car (20,000miles) and they are a terrible tire at best. The ES100's I replaced them with were significantly better. I now run oem and am very impressed. One of the best bang for the buck tires are the Falken Azenis. Once I wear those out (not on an NSX), I'm going with Kumho MX's.
 
Nsxtasy,

Thanks for the help. I didn't notice that the Toyo was an All-season and the Kuhmo was not. I also didn't pay attention that all the tires you listed are all "summer" and not all season. I just kinda had the impression that most really nice tires are acceptable in the tough weather except for certain extreme treads. THus far, I've only owned Bridgstones, Pilots, BFG Supercar, and other BFG's, on my cars because I had determined them to be the best performers for the buck for the various cars I've owned. This would have actaully been my first classified all season tire I would have even put on one of my toys.

Now I have to think twice knowing that it's NOT in the same ballpark as the others. Not even the 712 as its a summer tire and I was sure these two were similar in performance according to feedback I've read on websites where people with sports cars praised it, and discount tire also. I may not want them after all.
 
W said:
I haven't heard anything but bad about the FZ4's from anyone who cares about performance. From what I understand, they aren't a true performance tire. Why not go with the T-1S?

I had 712's on my car (20,000miles) and they are a terrible tire at best. The ES100's I replaced them with were significantly better. I now run oem and am very impressed. One of the best bang for the buck tires are the Falken Azenis. Once I wear those out (not on an NSX), I'm going with Kumho MX's.

While I never used the Toyo FZ4 on my NSX, I did use them on my 17" rims on my Legend and I hated them. They would squeel very early around corners even at moderate speed. The sucked in the rain. At least on my Legend which is a 3700lb car, it would slide all over a wet road. I could do 4 weel drifts at about 25-30 MPH around mild turns. They also seemed to hydroplane a lot more then I remember with other tires I've used.

On the other hand, I find the cheap 712s work much better in the rain. This past week as been nothing but heavy rain and the NSX felt really stable on the wet roads with the 712s. Neither tires are good for high performance driving, but I personally would take the 712s over the FZ4 based on my experience with the two tires. The only thing good about the FZ4 is they last a really long time. Not so good when you are trying to wear them out to buy new tires though:p

I use the 712 on my stock rims for daily driving and they work well for that. Next time I'll try the ES100 as everyone seems to like them better. I'll be using SO3s on my aftermarket rims.
 
Wow - Ken, could you come to Texas and teach me all those awesome computer skills? This is about as comprehensive a post as anyone will find on the tires for your NSX.

After getting advice from several people, Ken included, I went with Yoko AVS ES100. I'm happy, but I'm not a balls-out competitive driver, and price was a big factor for me.

This is exactly why Prime is such an incredible resource for all NSX owners....enthusiastic fellow NSX junkies who are always willing to lend a hand.

Cheers!

Todd

:p
 
LeftLane said:
Wow - Ken, could you come to Texas and teach me all those awesome computer skills? This is about as comprehensive a post as anyone will find on the tires for your NSX.
The only "tricky" thing I did in my post was to copy in the graphs that were already on the Tire Rack website. I did that using the function in my posts. For instructions on how to do that - using the "right mouse click" to find out the website address of any picture you view on a website - click [url=http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8853]here[/url]. ;)

Oh, and thanks! :D
 
Back
Top