The importance of a college degree.

[O-Ace]

What do you think about the importance of having a college degree? If you were interviewing 2 candidates, the first had a degree from an OK school like Devry but had a lot of work experience; and the second candidate had a degree from a better traditional university such as Northwestern or DePaul but had little work experience; who would you hire and why?

How has the college you graduated from effected your career?

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts on this subject

-Awais

 

[MarkB]

I started in IT back in '71. No college degree -- just a certificate from a trade school. As I gained more experience, I found that I was being hired over those with degrees.

If I were currently in a position to hire someone, I believe I would look at experience first and then education.

 

[hlweyl]

I think it depends what type of field you are working in. I would prefer experience over a better quality school anyday.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I'm finding that even though I possess the skills and experience to move up, it becomes increasingly difficult do so without a degree. I work for a Fortune 500 company and there is a heavy emphasis on education. So it helps to have one but I don't utilize anything related to my major when it comes to work.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

who would you hire and why?

Back when I was interviewing candidates (for the software industry), I tended to weigh work experience much more heavily than education. While a candidate with a lot of education may be well versed in the the theory, he may not be able to apply this effectively to the work at hand. Someone with work experience will have run into these problems already and will probably pick up the job faster.

Would you want to hire the harvard lawyer whose fighting his first case or would you want someone whose at least won a couple dozen? The harvard lawyer may know the laws, but the one with experience knows how to work the system.

Having said that, hiring a college grad wasnt out of the question. Some of the people did some really good stuff on their free time or summer internships and this definitely gave them positive points. But again, these things gave them experience and it demonstrates they can apply what they learned.


-- Joe

 

[DocL]

On the flip side, without a job how do you guys expect people to gain experience. No matter what type of job someone has, they should always be learning how to perform that job everyday. Even the guy at a fast food chain gets better each day he uses the deep fryer.

During my residency there was a phrase that we were taught the first day regarding learning a new technical skill. It was "See one, do one, teach one." So you bet that the first time I performed a bone graft that my skill wasn't as good as it is today after 10 years of experience. But, I had to be given that experience and taught how to perform that procedure once along the way.

That being said, I'd give the educated guy a shot knowing that I could teach and mentor them to be successful. There's a reason why athletes like Tiger Woods still use coaches, but I bet he can still hit the ball very well without one. Just some food for thought.

 

[satan_srv]

In business at least...I think my university education got my foot in the door easier and allowed me to demand a higher starting salary. I ended up in the 'high target' range for my role right when I started which is virtually unheard of, so I was promoted fairly quickly. But I went to the #1 biz school in Canada so it has somewhat of a name going for it.

 

[JAM]

who would you hire and why?
How has the college you graduated from effected your career?

For me, it would depend on the person being interviewed. I have met people with degrees from various prestigious colleges such as MIT and Yale, and I cant say they struck me as a "top pick" just by their place of schooling. Likewise, you can have all the experience in the world working a job, but if you don't have other positive characteristics like drive and charisma, what good is the experience. I think the actual resume of what you have done to get where you are, and perhaps more importantly...who you are as a person, should be the most important factors for a quality job candidate.
I quit school and piled up student loans to start a business that ended up taking off and I eventually sold it ... so in the fact I was in a college that allowed me a higher student loan amount, my college education has helped my "career" tremendously!

 

[JAYS NSX]

Bottom line, it will all boil down to the person making the hiring decision. I would likely go for the experience, however.

 

[steveny]

Hire both. See how they are after a few weeks. Fire the one that does not meet your expectations.

 

[apapada]

Hire both. See how they are after a few weeks. Fire the one that does not meet your expectations.

Are you related to Donald Trump ?

 

[O-Ace]

Hire both. See how they are after a few weeks. Fire the one that does not meet your expectations.

Steve....these are people we're dealing with, not stock brokers

-Awais

 

[Carguy!]

If the person with experience has it in the same field as what I am hiring for and they are good at what they do then it is an easy call.

I would always go with someone that has proved they have the ability to get the task done. I have seen plenty of people from high end schools that are only good students, not good workers.

The best college course I ever took were at a local community college where most of the teachers work full time and teach at night. They were able to explain what happens in the real world and not some fictional work environment. I took some classes at a local school that is ranked as one of the best technical schools in the country and the instructors that I had there were about useless.

I guess I would also add to your hypothetical question: If a third applicant without a degree applied and had much more experience than the other two and was able to demonstrate his ability I would hire him or her every time.

To me I guess I don't value a degree very much, I look at what someone is able to do for my company.

 

[NSX_Dreamer]

If the person with experience has it in the same field as what I am hiring for and they are good at what they do then it is an easy call.

I would always go with someone that has proved they have the ability to get the task done. I have seen plenty of people from high end schools that are only good students, not good workers.

The best college course I ever took were at a local community college where most of the teachers work full time and teach at night. They were able to explain what happens in the real world and not some fictional work environment. I took some classes at a local school that is ranked as one of the best technical schools in the country and the instructors that I had there were about useless.

I guess I would also add to your hypothetical question: If a third applicant without a degree applied and had much more experience than the other two and was able to demonstrate his ability I would hire him or her every time.

To me I guess I don't value a degree very much, I look at what someone is able to do for my company.

This is short term thinking. Experience is great for a job that doesn't evolve very much.

However, if your requirement is for a job that may evolve and require a broad background, someone with a college education and even post-graduate work may be much better suited.

For example - a chemist who has a masters in chemistry will be more suitable for R&D jobs than someone who has mixed chemicals ad hoc in the field.

Regardless, in most corporate environments, because the person who is interviewing doesn't know you from Adam, the college degree(s) will give you a heads up as compared to someone who does not have a degree.

 

[votrix]

As a recent college graduate myself. . . I too had the same questions. Like some had previously stated, it depends on the position. Depending on the company's goals, the type of position needs to be determined. Perhaps have a college hire program where you recruit recent college hires to give them a chance? How can a new college hire gain experience without being given a shot? Obviously, a new college graduate will not have the same experience as a 40 year old with XX yrs experience. But the college hire has the potential to possibly go even higher.

On another note, when deciding on who to hire think about this. . . if you children gets into a top notch college such as MIT, HARVARD, YALE, STANFORD, etc. Would you want them to go(money is not an issue here)? Or would you tell them to go to DeVry?

 

[DocL]

. . . if you children gets [sic] into a top notch college such as MIT, HARVARD, YALE, STANFORD, etc. Would you want them to go(money is not an issue here)? Or would you tell them to go to DeVry?

I'd give my child the option of going to school or taking that same amount of money and starting a real estae investment program.

I don't know the costs of education these days, but I'm sure that if someone went to the private universities that I went to in the 80's-90's, that it would cost almost $350k these days. I'm pretty confrident that I could do well with a $350k investment portfolio as opposed to taking out an additional $500k loan to start a practice, and then try to pay it all off while making a living.

 

[MarkB]

I'd give my child the option of going to school or taking that same amount of money and starting a real estae investment program.

I don't know the costs of education these days, but I'm sure that if someone went to the private universities that I went to in the 80's-90's, that it would cost almost $350k these days. I'm pretty confrident that I could do well with a $350k investment portfolio as opposed to taking out an additional $500k loan to start a practice, and then try to pay it all off while making a living.

Although I agree with your philosophy, Doc, unless the investment program had an average net annual income of $50,000 (~14%), it would not be a decent living income. Do you think a real estate investment plan could earn that much?

 

[huckster]

im generally a fan of 'college education', but i think there is a BIG difference in the quality. My opinion is that some colleges are diploma mills, big numbers, huge classes, little opportunity for meaningful learning.

the best colleges offer mentoring opportunities, and ultimately teach critical thinking. This is something that stays with you for a lifetime.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

You can NOT know which will mean more in an interview because of this...

From my experience, it depends on how the "CEO" or "owner" of the company or even a lower positions "boss" got to where they are today. In my current company both VP's have a traditional college degree in their field, and moved up in the same company with baby steps. They tend to hire that same way. They lean towards the degree.

Others companies have CEO's, owners, VP's etc that got there from experience alone, and tend to lean away from "degree only" candidates.

I myself went to 3.5 years of college for operations management, and dropped out to take a job that was paying more than I would have received with my degree. I moved up in the company through experience and hard work, and got into management as well. I also ran my own business on the side for even more useful resume experience, and now am a National Field Tech for the company making more money than everyone except the VP's and plant manager.

O-Ace I would not write off someone who does not have a degree, but has a high energy level to learn and get involved. (look at their past) There are also many dual students that would be even better. Someone who took a 12 credit load, and worked full-time 2nd shift, and still got involved in other activities (such as myself ) These applicants prove that they can handle a lot and make it through tough times and are not afraid of hard work to get to their goal. This is who you want to hire.

 

[JPS Europa]

I would hire the one with the experience. It sounds like they both have college degrees. The degree is important as it shows that the person has been able to complete a 4 year committment to a difficult task. References are very important as well. I have had many engineers working for me, and I find that the school is not that important, but the degree is. I have only worked with one non-degreed engineer that I would put up against a degreed engineer, given equal experience. He was self taught, and he learned well.
In regard to the degree or no degree question, I wish that I would have gone on for a PhD. Not having one is hurting me. I believe in the "get the advanced degree at night" if possible model (I realize that in some fields that is not possible). You get the experience and the advanced degree.

 

[MF-DIF]

Being a college grad for the past 4 months never had me question the value of my degree. I think it has always given me the edge up over other canidates but most importantly I think was a sign of the seriousness of my career direction. Although I may have relatively little experience, the experiences that I have had in
the past directly lines up to my school work. I was lucky enough to get the oppurtunities I did to work with
some great companies in the form of internships and they have really proved there value. If the applicant had demonstated that they have made a real effort to be involved in there
field of study then I think companies are more likely to take a chance on you.
Having a degree shows the employer
that you have taken an interest in your future and you are able to complete a long-term detailed task. I also
find that this is extremely true in larger companies which will not even look at your resume or prevent you from advancement if you do not hold a degree.

 

[TigerNSX]

I want to take a different position at answering this question.

I believe that the answer depends on the field/type/characteristic of jobs. However, since I have only been involved in a certain field, I can only speak for the field that I am familiar with.

If you look at traditional "white collar/elite" occupations such as lawyers, bankers, doctors, analysts, consultants, accountants, and etc., you must have a college degree. In addition, that will not even be sufficient nowadays. If you want to move up to become a big dog, a lot of the traditional "white collar" jobs now want to see MBA, MA/MS, PhD, JD, MD, CPA, CFA and what not.

On top of that, the prestige of schools matters as well. A lot of the top firms want to hire people from the top schools (perhaps, top 10, if not top 5). Some firms will not even interview students from the second-tier schools. The definition of being "elite" to these people is very narrow, and conservative. This definition is often associated with your alma mattar as well as the names of the previous companies that you worked with.

So if you want to be involved in these types of fields, college and graduate school degrees are crucial. Plus, you need to go to the top schools. For instance, to folks in these fields, Northwestern and Depaul are clearly not in the same league.

Having said this, however, I do not think that having a college or graduate degree will determine whether you will be successful or make a lot more money. I have met and seen many successful and wealthy people without such degrees. A lot of people around me at work would consider themselves to be not-yet successful, and not-yet financially stable.

 

[O-Ace]

Great replies so far!

-Awais

 

[nkb]

From the perspective of the job-seeker, it has always come down to who you know, not what you know (in my experience). All my jobs have come from knowing people who work there. Part of that networking is from classmates and fraternity brothers, and the other part is people I got to know at prior jobs.

As far as a degree, I think it's overrated, but as has been mentioned, it comes down to the person making the hiring decision. Some people value a certain type of degree, and don't really care what school it was, others will look for the "prestigious" schools, while others will value experience more.

My last job, I was hired partially because I had an EE degree, even though the job had little to do with it. Candidates who applied without EE degrees weren't even considered, only because the VP had a hard-on for Electrical Engineers.

In my opinion, the school you attend (or didn't) relates less to how well you will do your job than past experience, and ability to learn new things. It all comes down to the individual.

 

[Black Knight]

the question should be "who is the hiring manager"? there is no right or wrong answer but the sole decision lies with the hiring mgr....

some mgrs like a nice education with little experience (i.e. stanford, harvard, etc..); some like the experience and others like the type of person.

for example, i recently joined a company that hired two people into the same organization for identical positions....me and another girl.

we both interviewed along with other candidates with 3 hiring managers.

my manager chose me for my experience in hardware design and master's degree. (hiring mgr with multiple master's degrees and tons of work experience)

the other hiring mgr chose the girl because she has a degree from M.I.T (hiring mgr was straight out of MBA from Stanford)

you can clearly see that in this case, the hiring mgr chooses his own team for his own purchase. he's ultimately responsible for the performance of his team so he's hiring according to his style, strategy and needs.