Steering problem (or not) on new 01

[mikec]

You may have seen my eariler posts about what I believe to be a steering problem with my car. It did it from new in Feb. 02. It has now been to 3 different acura dealers and they cannot find a problem. Here is what it does:

Steering does not return to center the same amount from a right turn as it does from a left turn. Going on a twisty road.. around 40 mph, from a left turn, the wheel will return to almost center on its own. From a right turn, it stops at about the 1o'clock position. It seems odd that it reacts differently from left to right. To be sure, the "problem" is very slight. I have let trained people drive my car and they dont see anything wrong. When I tell them what to look for, they they say.. "oh yeah your right.. I never would have noticed it unless I was looking for it". Its been to Jones Acura in Lancaster PA where they did an alignment; no change. Then it was to Reading Acura where they replaced the rack and front tires; no change, and lastly, it was to Davis Acura in Langhorn PA. Davis checked the alignment and could not find anything amiss.

So far, the area service rep has been involved. Tech line recommended the rack and tire change, and a model engineer was consulted. The result of all this is that they are saying that is is normal behavior for the car. The service manager for Davis just drove a 95 with power steering and told me that it behaves the same. Maybe the power steering has something to do with it. My car also seems better than it was when it was new, and one suggestion is for it to get more miles on it.. around 10K and hope it gets better.

I'm not sure what to do next because I really love the car.. and this is quite minor. But its hard to think that this type of behavior is 'normal' for one of the world's best handeling cars. I can either accept this as normal for the car and be happy with it, or take it to the next step which may involve legal action.

Unfortunatly, this is the only NSX i've driven. I have nothing to compair it to. Anyone else out there with power steering cars that have an opinion?

Thanks for listening.

ps. Tire wear is perfect, tracking is perfect; no pulling left or right, handleing is great, no problems at all. It does not follow ruts or the crown of the road the way my Porsche used to; and thats better.

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keep the shiny side up
MikeC 01 #46

[This message has been edited by mikec (edited 30 July 2002).]

[This message has been edited by mikec (edited 30 July 2002).]

 

[Lud]

That is not normal, and I would not accept that excuse. If it was normal they wouldn't have paid to put a new steering rack in the car. But beyond that, my '98 NSX and many others I have driven with power steering do NOT exhibit that behavior. My steering centers dead on from either direction.

It certainly sounds like a textbook case of caster being off, and if you hadn't had it aligned at two separate dealers that would absolutely be my first guess.

But it is hard to believe two dealers, including one as good as Davis, would have missed that on the alignment rack! Do you have the printout from your alignments? What is the setting indicated for caster?

If it's not caster, there are other remote possibilities. I am going out on a theoretical limb here because I haven't seen this symptom caused by any of these problems on an NSX before, but in general failure to return to center can be caused by:

Worn suspension, but your car seems too new for that.

Bent steering column or other steering column issue, such as it binding on the housing or a problem with the bearings.

Bad tire, such as an internal belt problem. This tends to make the wheel hard to balance properly as well. But you already replaced the tires anyway.

Bad tie rod end, maybe? Just thinking out loud on this one.

A problem with the steering rack or the way it is mounted (but that has already been replaced). Unless there is a problem with the way it's mounting to the car...

Maybe a problem with the actual power steering module?

A problem with the wheel bearings (usually other symptoms as well, plus your miles seem low for that).

Anyone have better guesses?

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 30 July 2002).]

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Lud and Mike,

I have to say, it seems like you have covered all the bases to me. The caster to me is the most probable. However, I would suspect under hard braking you would notice a pull to one side if the caster was off on one side only.

The way I recall the "center return" action of any front suspension, the axle center will move in an arc, with center(car going straight) being the top of the arc, so the steering will "find" the arc's high point (low point of the body height) and settle there when the wheel is released.

So, if the caster is off, then the two front axles are not traveling throught the same arc. But again, I recall that this usually will also cause a pull under braking.

Mike,

If you take the car out and give it a good brake workout do you, or did you ever notice a pull to one side??

Sorry, but that is all I have, Lud covered it pretty completely!

LarryB

 

[mikec]

Castor was the first topic that was explored. The car has been aligned at each dealership. Davis had it on the rack 3 times to check settings and play with castor. Even when they deviated from the normal castor settings, the results didn't change. The car is dead center while hard braking. no pull either way.

so here's where I am.

Tech line has no clue what to do next.
The model engineer says it's normal for the car.
Bernie the Davis NSX mechanic says that this may be one of those things that can never be found and corrected.

I asked if this car could have been 'built wrong'. I've been told by all three dealers that any geometry problems that could cause this would be detected on the alignment rack. And, alignment has been throughly explored.

I'm wondering if its just a stiffness in the steering at a certain point. The steering is pretty stiff close to center.

In any case, i'm being told that they can find nothing wrong, and there is nothing more to fix.

The question is should I live with this minor anomoly, or go to war with Acura and under the lemon law have them take the car back or replace it.

 

[Jimbo]

I'm still trying to get a better idea of the extent and specifics of the problem.

Are you saying that you have to apply steering effort to get it to return to normal?

Or is this all with hands off?

Is this something that is annoying because you need to compensate for it?

Or is it merely a weird curiosity?

How did you first discover the problem?

I'm not doubting you, I'm just trying to undestand what's happening.

I have manual steering so I can't try to replicate this.

-Jim

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by mikec:
...The question is should I live with this minor anomoly, or go to war with Acura and under the lemon law have them take the car back or replace it.

I vote for replacement. This is a $90,000 car, for crying out loud. It should be PERFECT! This is one of the reasons (I suspect) that you bought new from a dealer.

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'91 Black/Black

 

[mikec]

Here is how I can best describe it.

at speed (40-50 mph)on a twisty turny road. when you steer right, the farther you turn the wheel, the more you feel the normal resistance. When you go out of the curve, you let pressure off the wheel, and it begins to return to center on its own. It returns only to about the 1 o'clock position (if 12 o'clock is dead center)and then you must apply pressure to bring it to center. If you left your hands off the wheel, the car would continue steering right and go off the road. From a left turn, the wheel will return almost all the way to dead center on its own.

Now... its not like you have to fight the wheel to get the car back on the road from a right turn.. most of the time, its just automatic and I don't really notice it. It drives great otherwise. And I believe its someting I could live with. if this is just the nature of the car. But if in fact my car is defective, then I feel it needs to be addressed.

A manual steering car may be different.

Any power steering people people out there with this sort of behavior.... let me hear from you please.

 

[nsxtasy]

You have mail.

 

[mikec]

In an effort to more accuratly describe this condition I paid close attention to the steering driving home from work.

It can best be described as a region of steering from either side of top dead center where the wheel will not return. That "arc" if you will, is pretty small. I'd estimate it at 2 degrees left and 5 degrees right, where 0 degrees is top dead center. This small region is an area where the car goes where you steer it with little or no opposing force on the wheel. And.. it is small.. maybe you can call it a 'dead zone'. but there is definatly more dead zone to the right of center than the left.

 

[madfast]

did u check to see if ur p/s belt is loose? try that cuz engine moves in different directions when u turn and if it's loose it may not be as easy for the steering wheel to go back to the center position.

dave

 

[johne]

on the NSX, the Power Steering unit is electronic so no belts involved, it's a nice piece of engineering work.

I had the same problem on my 95 but went away after I had the front tires replaced.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by mikec:
you can call it a 'dead zone'.

 

[mikec]

oh no!! bar the doors and git the shotgun.. the copyright police are after me!

 

[NSX-00054]

I just drove my 2002 50 miles to see what my NSX did in regards to stering wheel returning to neutral. Most of the time it returned to straight up but many times it did not, both right and left turns. Sometimes I had to nudge it slightly to center or the car would continue in its turn. Some turns were flat some slightly banked or a crown in the road. My car tracks dead nuts straight on a flat smooth road and stops straight from any speed.

Just my $.02

Newton

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2002•Black/Black

 

[mikec]

well.. thats what my car pretty much does.. and your right.. sometimes its better than other times... Well.. it seems like the nature of the beast. Maybe a tire brand change will change the characteristics. I'm starting to believe there is nothing to fix. I feel more reassured..
Thanks
MikeC

 

[Forums Nazi]

Originally posted by mikec:
the copyright police are after me!

Please note that they are a separate division of the Forumland Security Force and are not affiliated with my activities here.

 

[CChung]

I replied to your previous post also. Yes, my NSX does the same thing as yours. It seems the steering wheel returns closer to center when making a left turn than a right turn. I never noticed it until you brought it up in February. I guess unconsciously I always return the wheel to center myself and never let go of it to see if it returns to center by itself. My cars steers straight and doesn't pull to one side when braking and the tires seem to be wearing evenly. I wouldn't worry about. I certainly don't! Like you said, it could be the nature of the beast. By the way, my daily driver E320 sedan doesn't return to center perfectly either.

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'00 NSX-T, silverstone/blk, #252

 

[DaveJP]

Just a thought....Have you tried driving the car with the EPS disabled?..I thought I read in a previous post that it was possible to disable the system (I could be wrong).

 

[T Bolen]

I belive that pulling the clock fuse will disable the power steering.

 

[robr]

trust me, you'd know if the copyright police were after you

 

[POWERED by HONDA]

My 98 does the same thing.

 

[ICBIOTT]

It's been 5 years since this thread was active and I'm having a similar problem. Not only does my steering not quite center from a right turn, just like mikec describes, it is a little easier to turn right than left. I've had the alignment done and the front tires cross rotated and nothing has changed. When I pulled the eps fuse, the steering felt normal (except for the lack of power steering) and there was no difference in steering force needed for left or right turns and the wheel centered when returning from the left or right. The EPS light has come on a couple of times. Once when I started the car with the wheel turned almost to full left and, after resetting by pulling the clock fuse, again about 500 miles later while driving down the road. I'm bringing the car in for an oil chage in a couple of days and I'll have them pull the code, as the EPS light is currently on. Any guesses as to what might be the problem?

 

[nsx2tall]

My suspicion would be that either the EPS control unit or the EPS rack motor is malfunctioning, especially since you can drive the car with no problems with the EPS off. Zennsx might be able to help you with the control unit. If it is the EPS rack, there are really no servicable parts unfortunately.

I had a different problem with my EPS and successfully converted to manual steering rack (actually a rather simple operation). If sticker shock on the EPS rack gets you, you can always do that.

 

[ICBIOTT]

Thanks for the reply, I am hoping it's not the whole rack that needs to be replaced. I've seen the price and it's over the top.

 

[latzke]

I'm wondering if the roads in your areas are like the roads in mine...not perfectly flat left-to-right (i.e. crowned so water runs off...heck, I think this is even visible in my avitar). This effects the tracking of pretty much every vehicle I've ever owned, NSX included. Usually the result is what's described (car favors going right). In the rare case I find a stretch of interstate where the fast lane is cambered to the left the result is the same as described, but with left and right charactoristics swapped (favors left). If the roads you're testing on are lightly traveled and there is good visibility...try these tests driving on the wrong side of the road and see if you don't get the opposite result.