NSX = great engine - lousy steering

[sexnsx]

I bought my 1993 NSX ten months ago after years of reading wonderfull things in all the magazines.."great engine, very reliable, supercar...vague steering". The vague steering didnt mean anything to me at the time as I could not imagine what exactly the roadtesters meant - but I do now!
My car is the non power steering model in manual with 82,000 miles. The problem is simple: how the hell can anyone drive these cars fast when the steering gives you no confidence whatsoever? I am doing 100mph and I feel that the front wheels have a mind of their own. The steering wheel is playing in my hands, and every road abnormality is transmited via the wheels to the steering wheel. I feel that I am constantly making corrections even on a straight road. Long sweeping bends that I can attact at 90mph in my BMW 523, I do not dare do so in the NSX as the steering wheel will be fighting me all the way.
When I bought the car it did not have OEM tyres so I thougth this was the problem. But now I have put on Yoko A022 and it is no different.
Have things improved with the power steering models, and are all non power steering model owners quietly experiencing the same problem. Sorry but this is no supercar. Supercars must give you the confidence to run at speeds that mortal cars cannot. My old M3 (1998) would leave my NSX for dead on the twisty stuff.
PS. drove the new 2002 NSX - no comparison to mine. Felt much quicker, much revvier, and power steering made going round corners so easy.
I feel short changed!!

 

[sjs]

I never seen a review from a magazine have anything but raves about the NSX steering, especially without power which has much better feel at low speeds and the same at high speeds.

There is a problem with your car. If you are positive that the alignment is correct then be sure the tires are mounted on the correct corner. (They are different and specific to each corner as well as directional.) Also be sure that at rest on level ground the front of the car is not higher than the rear. Even a little bit will cause the front to lift at speed making it light.

All that said, the front of an NSX (or any mid or rear engine car) is comparatively light and the feel takes some adjustment if you have driven nose-heavy under-steering cars all you life.

I'm guessing alignment. Many independent shops will misread the toe setting (reverse of most cars) and ignore or not look at the caster (very high compared to most cars). Tire mounting is also a favorite mistake.

Trust me, your car is NOT normal and if you were short changed it was not by Acura.

 

[ACR_Motorsports]

You probably should get your aligment checked. It may be way out of spec. If it is not the alignment, it could be the shocks and or possible suspension/chassis damage. Your experience is not one of a properly setup NSX.

Originally posted by sexnsx:
I bought my 1993 NSX ten months ago after years of reading wonderfull things in all the magazines.."great engine, very reliable, supercar...vague steering". The vague steering didnt mean anything to me at the time as I could not imagine what exactly the roadtesters meant - but I do now!
My car is the non power steering model in manual with 82,000 miles. The problem is simple: how the hell can anyone drive these cars fast when the steering gives you no confidence whatsoever? I am doing 100mph and I feel that the front wheels have a mind of their own. The steering wheel is playing in my hands, and every road abnormality is transmited via the wheels to the steering wheel. I feel that I am constantly making corrections even on a straight road. Long sweeping bends that I can attact at 90mph in my BMW 523, I do not dare do so in the NSX as the steering wheel will be fighting me all the way.
When I bought the car it did not have OEM tyres so I thougth this was the problem. But now I have put on Yoko A022 and it is no different.
Have things improved with the power steering models, and are all non power steering model owners quietly experiencing the same problem. Sorry but this is no supercar. Supercars must give you the confidence to run at speeds that mortal cars cannot. My old M3 (1998) would leave my NSX for dead on the twisty stuff.
PS. drove the new 2002 NSX - no comparison to mine. Felt much quicker, much revvier, and power steering made going round corners so easy.
I feel short changed!!

------------------
www.acrmotorsports.com / 949-929-8973

 

[nsxtasy]

This is NOT normal behavior. The NSX steering should feel tight and precise. The car should go EXACTLY where you point it. No ifs, ands, or buts.

I can think of a few possible explanations for your situation:

1. Your car may need an alignment. It should be checked and performed by an experienced NSX specialist.

2. The problem may be caused by your tires - first, by the non-OEM tires, and now, the fact that your new OEM tires may still need to be broken in. As noted on the Tire Rack's website,

Tires are comprised of many layers of rubber, steel and fabric. Due to these different components, your new tires require a "break-in" period to ensure that they deliver their normal ride quality and maximum performance. As tires are cured, a "release lubricant" is applied to prevent them from sticking in their mold. Some of the lubricant stays on the surface of your tires, reducing traction until it is worn away. Five hundred miles of easy acceleration, cornering and braking will allow the mold release lubricant to wear off, allowing the other tire components to begin working together.It is also important to note that your old tires probably had very little tread depth remaining when you felt it was time to replace them. As any autocrosser or racer who has tread rubber shaved off of his tires will tell you "low tread depth tires respond quicker." Don’t be surprised if your new tires are a little slower to respond (even if you use the exact same tire as before). Their new, full depth brings with it a little more tread squirm until they wear down.

It's possible yours may feel just like the 2002 you drove after you have driven the tires 500 miles or so.

3. There may be some other mechanical problem with your car; I'm not the mechanical expert though. Maybe Larry B or sjs or NSX Tech can assist.

 

[NSX-00054]

There is no power steering after 25-30 MPH or so.

------------------
2002•Black/Black



[This message has been edited by NSX-00054 (edited 27 August 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Looks like we all responded at the same time, with more or less the same response. Great minds think alike.

ACR Motorsports mentioned the shocks, and I think this is also a significant possibility. The thing about shocks is that (a) they wear out, and (b) they do so in a way that is not always obvious. When shocks are so worn that they fail the "press on the car and see if it bounces" test, that means that they should have been replaced a long, long time ago. Until then, their performance deteriorates so gradually that many owners don't even notice the difference over time. At 82K miles, I would bet you have the original shocks and they need replacement.

My own car serves as a good example here. I bought my NSX new twelve years ago, and use it in 4-6 racetrack events each year. It now has about 52K miles on it, including over 8K actual track miles. (That's a lot of track miles.) In a track event at the end of last year, I noticed that the handling just didn't seem as crisp as it had in its earlier days. There wasn't any one thing I noticed (no bounciness, for example), but it just didn't give me that "point and shoot" feeling.

I strongly believe that what I was feeling was the shocks needing replacement, so I recently replaced them. I haven't driven it on the track since then, but I expect this to fully restore its former razor-sharp steering.

Keep in mind that if you replace the shocks, you will need to get the car aligned as part of the shock installation anyway. So don't just get the car aligned, with the thought that you might replace the shocks afterwards; no need to pay to do it twice...

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 27 August 2002).]

 

[medusa]

i love the fact that i do not have power steering. Now, all i need is some more power. When i think of a sports car it makes me want to drive the damn car, and drive i do.
I understand if you want the ease of steering esp on a u-turn but i have been 170mph (on the speedometer) and i felt like i was in total control. Yes, you do feel the road more but i think you have more control, more feel for the road. Just the other day, there was a little sprinkle in the morning and i was coming around the corner, not too fast mind you (estimated speed 30mph) sent the tail spinning, she was headed towards the curb and a parked car. I was able to correct elenor (my car) and pull out of this dilema. I can't say how i would have done with powersteering, if i would have overcorrected, blah blah blah...

I just think it depends on your driving skill and application of the nsx. Daily driving= powersteering good. Track=no powersteering.

make 7 up yours

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by sjs:
Trust me, your car is NOT normal and if you were short changed it was not by Acura.

Especially not by Acura in the U.K.

Or even by Honda...

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by medusa:
make 7 up yours

 

[8000RPM]

When I was shopping for my NSX, I test drove over 12 samples. I recall driving an used '91 sample that really scared me on the highway due to similar steering problem/behavior that you are describing. I could not sense the front tires through the steering, and the front end felt very floaty at highway speeds.

But that was an isolated incident and is the result of a poorly maintained sample, and as such does not represent typical NSX behavior.

It sounds like you need to get your car checked.

 

[matteni]

Without the confidence inspiring damn near telepathic steering - this is just another (insert POS here).

Seriously - when driving mine home 14 hours from Austin to St. Louis I was eating fast food, driving with my knees, doing around 120 or so through Oklahoma!

Have a NSX expert check out your car so that you can enjoy it the way it was made to be enjoyed and then a) report back what the problem is b) tell us how much you LOVE that steering!

Good luck to you - hope it works out quickly and cheaply.

------------------
Nick M

91' Red/Black with Many Mods
99' Honda Odyssey with Many Kids

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by matteni:
Have a NSX expert check out your car

Absolutely. It is essential that it be checked by someone who is familiar with the NSX, not just a competent mechanic who is not familiar with the NSX.

If you need a referral to a good NSX mechanic in your part of the UK, you might ask for one on the nsxcb e-mail list.

(Apologies if you've already got one...)

 

[sexnsx]

My NSX was bought from an NSX dealer and the alignment was checked ( I have the readout to prove it). I have suggested shock wear to the dealer but they say they have never had to replace shocks! I.e they either work or they dont.
Floaty is I think the right word to discribe my cars behaviour on the highway.
What should I ask for when having the car checked?

 

[ChopsJazz]

What tires are you using? When I switched from the OEM Yoks to Dunlop SP 9000s I lost the crisp turn-in and the tight on-center feel of the OEMs. Now the car feels a bit vague, but not loose and floaty as you are describing. I hope your dealer can be of more help to you.

You have a problem that sounds dangerous! I'm sure the dealer doesn't want you to hurt yourself after they told you that there is nothing wrong.

 

[kenjiMR]

Check tire pressure.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by sexnsx:
My NSX was bought from an NSX dealer and the alignment was checked ( I have the readout to prove it). I have suggested shock wear to the dealer but they say they have never had to replace shocks! I.e they either work or they dont.
Floaty is I think the right word to discribe my cars behaviour on the highway.
What should I ask for when having the car checked?

Here's what I would suggest.

1. As kenjiMR suggests, check your tire pressures using a gauge known to be accurate. The OEM tires should work fine at the recommended 33F/40R.

2. If your tires are still new, give them 300-400 miles to see if they start feeling better.

3. Ask your dealer to examine the suspension for any evidence of damage (bent arms, that sort of thing).

4. If the car still feels floaty at this point, then I would replace the shocks, regardless of what your dealer says. (FWIW, I like the way the OEM shocks firm up on the track but provide decent ride quality on the street; I got Bilsteins because they do the same thing, but I expect them to last longer.)

That's my O; anyone else care to chime in?

 

[BostonNSX]

WhaT R U TALKING ABOUT??

The NSX steering handling is EXCELLENT! I can feel the road on my hand!!!

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Here's what I would suggest.... That's my O; anyone else care to chime in?

What he said. But I'll add that besides bent bits you should have them look for wasted bushing or loose bolts, anything that would allow some part of the rather complex suspension design to shift under load, changing alignment as it does.

 

[hondaholic]

i feel like the front wheels of my nsx are conncted directly to my brain. so intuitive and so in control. maybe your car was wrecked and not repaired properly.

 

[j14nsx]

Hi,

What dealer did you get the car from?

You can join the UK NSX owners club at www.nsxcb.co.uk. I'm sure if you wanted another owner would look at your car for you and give you a comparison. There are some others in the north.

The steering on the NSX is far tighter than other cars. It should not jump around on the road though, but I can feel the surface underneath.

Kevin

 

[j14nsx]

For those of you in the States, finding a NSX expert is easier said than done!

There were 5 now 6 dealers in the UK that are NSX approved. This is out of Honda dealers, we don't have Acura as a separate brand.

Add to that, the fact there are less than 350 NSX in the UK.

The NSX dealers do see a fair number of cars, but mine would have one in every couple of weeks.

Most dealers have never ever seen a NSX for real.

Kevin

 

[sexnsx]

My steering is tight at low speeds, but at high speeds it seems to go very light (a bit like being over powered steering when it has no power steering at all). The worst is at high speed bends where you have to constantly readjust your alignment. The driver of a BMW 528 couldnt believe his luck the other day when he was able to come up to my back bumber (fender) every time we came to a bend in the road. Lost him in the straight though!

 

[j14nsx]

That's not right. My steering stays the same at any speed, or even gets heavier. It should also get heavy when cornering. On the track, with my seating position, my arms ache trying to get round.

Kevin

 

[medusa]

gotta love the forearm burn from driving your car! Heart racing, Vtec screaming, you gotta love the nsx!

 

[huckster]

the nsx should 'squat' at higher speeds. do you have the chin spoiler in place? if that is missing it could contribute to the 'floaty' feeling.

ive driven my nsx at embarassingly high speeds and even over 120mph in rain and the car is tight and very firm on the road. granted this is on straight stretches, but on oem tires. if this is Not your experience, as everyone else has already said you definately have a problem.