• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Players Strike Opinion

Joined
3 April 2002
Messages
1,005
Location
Lee's Summit,MO/8mmLake of the Ozarks
Just wondering, for those of you located in some of the major markets. 1) Do you think the game needs fixing. 2) Do you think the smaller markets are at a disadvantage and BB needs to be fixed. 3)Players just don't live in the real world and have no reason to complain. 4)Do you care !
 
I think that few will miss them this time.
I also think that the money paid to these people is a crime against our society but that's probably not a very popular point of view...
It's a *game* - a kid's game. Pay people for contributions to the good of the society - not for being able to hit a ball with a stick!

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia"
- Brock Yates
 
Hi Tom,

I am a huge baseball fan (I enjoy baseball very much; I'm not a large man)

I will be disappointed if there is a strike because I won't be able to enjoy the last two months of the season. I will not, however, be pissed at the players or the owners. Although I am a baseball fan, I am a bigger fan of capitalism (so yes I like Adam Smith better than Lonnie Smith - didn't know if you were closer to KC or STL). I don't mind letting the two parties work out their issues.

Anyway, to answer your questions...

1) Does the game need fixing?

Sure, as with any industry/business, there are things that could be improved. Many fans and owners like to focus on the revenue disparities between teams as the major roadblock to competitive baseball. I think that incompetent management causes more of a disparity in the league than revenue. There are many teams with incompetent front offices (KC is a fantastic example). These teams are not prudent with the dollars available and blame their performance on their lack of resources.

Bud Selig is a horrendous public figure for the game of baseball. He needs to market the game, rather than destroy it. During last year's series he began discussing contraction with the media. What does this accomplish other than infuriating fans? Couldn't this wait until after the entire country is watching a few ball games?

2) Do you think that smaller markets are at a disadvantage and BB needs to be fixed?

Sure, smaller markets are at a disadvantage. Team success is definitely correlated to their payroll, but it isn't perfectly correlated. Frequently teams with a small payroll will do well (Minnesota-this year) and teams with large payrolls will fall on their face (Mets-this year). This can be due to good/bad luck, management, and player performance. Occasionally a team will demonstrate that they can overachieve (A's) or underachieve (Orioles) for great periods of time. This is mostly due to a fantastic/horrendous front office. Teams with lower revenues seem to have smaller windows of success and longer rebuilding phases. They, frankly, can't afford to make as many mistakes in the front office as large revenue teams. I would definitely bet on a small revenue team with a great GM over a large revenue team with an incompetent GM.

3) Players just don't live in the real world and have no reason to complain.

Would doctors react similarly if the US socialized medicine and capped doctors' incomes? Do doctors make a lot of money? At what income level should one stop 'complaining' about their future income?

Just some of my thoughts,

Matt

BTW, great topic
 
While I agree with most of your point, I have to disagree with your doctors comment.

Doctors are in the business of saving life. Basketball player do not. They simply entertain us. Certainly not me though. I think baseball are the most boring game on earth. Everytime I can't sleep, I surf the channel for baseball.
smile.gif
But then, I respect it, different strokes for different folks.

To compare doctors with baseball players are absurd. Can you live hapilly and healthy without doctors? How bout without baseball?
 
Andrie,

I certainly was not saying that baseball players are more important than doctors to society or myself. That would be rediculous.

I was simply trying to draw a parallel between two professions in the context of imposed income ceilings. I do not think the comparison of these situations is absurd.
 
hey, unlike a lot of posts this is actually some good, profound stuff. another proof positive that baseball can be used as a metaphor for life in general. "offense wins games and defense loses games", so true in business as well.

sports in general needs to be fixed, baseball is just one example. the doctors comparison is actually a good one because the significance of the two professions is so dramatically disparate. doctors are netting less money than ever, while sports is paying more than ever. baseball's inherent value is a 'quality of life' intangible. kind of like the nsx, it makes our life better/happier, but still not a necessity.

Teachers are even a better example from a contribution/necessity vantage point. the teaching profession is paid very poorly but remains the foundation for molding the future of our society.

Here's a script that has been played out in Hollywood before; "would we pay money to see less talented players play the game, or do we insist upon, Need, the most talented and most highly paid athletes?"

I personally would pay to see an entire new crop of underpaid unknown players out on the field playing their hearts out for the shear love of the game. Go to a college game sometime, or even a softball game. there is a magic in that random unforseen moment when the player dives for an unreachable ball and increduously comes up with it.

Much like the nsx, greatness is relative to the individual performer's abilities and the players alongside the individual. what was greatness twenty years ago in baseball is standard fare today. was it any less great to watch, or less fantastic to be a part of?

Let a new crop of players on the field if our current system needs to perpetuate mega$$ budgets. i could care less about a strike within the existing system. I think if we let it collapse, the players who belong out there would still play. the players motivated only by money would be purged. all would be right with the world.
 
Screw Em! I am soooo tired of hearing them whine about how they need MORE money
mad.gif


Its a sad world when an athlete can make the President of the United States seem like he's working for peanuts!

These people get paid too darn much money... I really think they are digging their own graves by going on strike again. I hope they learn a lesson this time!

Remember the good ol days when players like Steve Garvey were top notch and barely made over $400,000.00 a year??? I dont even think that Reggie Jackson made more than $500,000.00 a year, did he?

[This message has been edited by TheSwishh (edited 28 August 2002).]
 
Originally posted by TheSwishh:

These people get paid too darn much money... I really think they are digging their own graves by going on strike again. I hope they learn a lesson this time!

Remember the good ol days when players like Steve Garvey were top notch and barely made over $400,000.00 a year??? I dont even think that Reggie Jackson made more than $500,000.00 a year, did he?


They owners and players might, indeed, be digging their own grave. Time will only tell. It will infuriate me if they do lose a significant portion of their fan base and expect the public sector to bail them out (i.e. taxpayer money to aide in their stadium leasing obligations, etc.)

BTW, Reggie made:

1985 Califrna $1,058,894
1986 Califrna $1,102,946
1987 Califrna $525,000
 
Originally posted by TheSwishh:
Screw Em! I am soooo tired of hearing them whine about how they need MORE money
mad.gif


Its a sad world when an athlete can make the President of the United States seem like he's working for peanuts!

These people get paid too darn much money... I really think they are digging their own graves by going on strike again. I hope they learn a lesson this time!

Remember the good ol days when players like Steve Garvey were top notch and barely made over $400,000.00 a year??? I dont even think that Reggie Jackson made more than $500,000.00 a year, did he?

[This message has been edited by TheSwishh (edited 28 August 2002).]

I agree. Maybe while on strike, the players should do a job they are qualified for and receive that pay. Then they would not bitch so much about getting paid huge sums of cash to PLAY a game. Back in the mid 90's there was a news story here in town about the Miller beer factory. The workers wanted more pay, and went on strike. One lady interviewed on the news was making 19 dollars a hour to stack labels in a machine. Miller closed the plant. I wonder what that women is doing now. My guess is flipping burgers for 5 bucks an hour. Where does the greed end? The baseball players are proof of this, greed is at all levels. The sad part is that the owners ARE making enough to pay more, but they are greedy too.
 
Matt,

That's a great comparison between ballplayers and doctors, and boy do I have a big gripe with that statement. Doctors are limited on the amount of money they can make on each treatment. Yes we can bill as much as we want, but an insurance company will only pay what they feel is usual and customary fee. So, if I do a procedure that costs $1,000, and the insurance will only pay %50, the patient (you) needs to pay the rest. Now, not everyone out there can afford $500 for a one hour treatment, but does that mean that they shouldn't recieve the treatment? I'm not even going to get started on the business of HMO's, but in short no doctor can make a good living providing quality care to an HMO patient. The system doesn't allow it; period!

I would love to earn just 1/4 of what a big dollar ball player earns in a year. I would be able to afford a brand new 2002 NSX with every aftermarket part available to mankind. Actually, I would probably prefer to pay off some of my $200,000 in student loans.

Now to answer the original question:
I say let them strike, then bring up some AAA players. Since I've gone to maybe 12 baseball games in my life, I really don't care what happens with baseball. I can live the rest of my life without any loss of sleep if baseball was gone forever.
 
Originally posted by milz50:
Hi Tom,

I am a huge baseball fan (I enjoy baseball very much; I'm not a large man)

I will be disappointed if there is a strike because I won't be able to enjoy the last two months of the season. I will not, however, be pissed at the players or the owners. Although I am a baseball fan, I am a bigger fan of capitalism (so yes I like Adam Smith better than Lonnie Smith - didn't know if you were closer to KC or STL). I don't mind letting the two parties work out their issues.

Anyway, to answer your questions...

1) Does the game need fixing?

Sure, as with any industry/business, there are things that could be improved. Many fans and owners like to focus on the revenue disparities between teams as the major roadblock to competitive baseball. I think that incompetent management causes more of a disparity in the league than revenue. There are many teams with incompetent front offices (KC is a fantastic example). These teams are not prudent with the dollars available and blame their performance on their lack of resources.

Bud Selig is a horrendous public figure for the game of baseball. He needs to market the game, rather than destroy it. During last year's series he began discussing contraction with the media. What does this accomplish other than infuriating fans? Couldn't this wait until after the entire country is watching a few ball games?

2) Do you think that smaller markets are at a disadvantage and BB needs to be fixed?

Sure, smaller markets are at a disadvantage. Team success is definitely correlated to their payroll, but it isn't perfectly correlated. Frequently teams with a small payroll will do well (Minnesota-this year) and teams with large payrolls will fall on their face (Mets-this year). This can be due to good/bad luck, management, and player performance. Occasionally a team will demonstrate that they can overachieve (A's) or underachieve (Orioles) for great periods of time. This is mostly due to a fantastic/horrendous front office. Teams with lower revenues seem to have smaller windows of success and longer rebuilding phases. They, frankly, can't afford to make as many mistakes in the front office as large revenue teams. I would definitely bet on a small revenue team with a great GM over a large revenue team with an incompetent GM.

3) Players just don't live in the real world and have no reason to complain.

Would doctors react similarly if the US socialized medicine and capped doctors' incomes? Do doctors make a lot of money? At what income level should one stop 'complaining' about their future income?

Just some of my thoughts,

Matt

BTW, great topic



Hey Matt. Well written and well thought out. The rational side of my brain agrees with almost everything.

Unfortunately, as a fellow baseball fan, I've also got a very irrational, passionate, and emotional take on this as well.

I'm only 30 years old but I was born and raised watching and loving Angels baseball. I've been there through the dark days, the good days, and all the roller coasters. I go to pre-season games and I go to a lot of reagular season games. In the last few years, I've even been going to spring training in AZ. In other words, I'm pretty die hard.

That being said, my BS tolerance has nearly been exceeded. I am not sure that I will go back to major league baseball if they strike. It's not so much that I'm ticked at the players or the owners as I am ticked at both of them because neither seems to genuinely give a rip about their fans. There's a lot of lip service, but when it comes down to it, very few of these guys realize that they have jobs because schlepps like me are willing to buy the jerseys, buy the hats, take our wifes to the game and drop damn near a hundred buck to watch a ball game (parking, tickets, a few dogs, and a few beers is rapidly approaching $100 here in S. CA).

I listen to Nomar babble on and on and I want to just scream. I used to respect him alot (and still respect his playing ability) but listening to his mindless drivel only reinforces my hatred for unions.

My beloved halos (who don't exactly have the biggest payroll in the world) are actually playing quite well. In fact, if you were to remove the absolutely disasterous first 20 something games from the mix, you'd have a fantastic record. Maybe the best in baseball right now.

I've got tickets to the game on Thursday night. It might be the last game of the season. I'll tell you what it also might be. The last major league game I attend. I can stick to minor league and spring training games.

BTW if any of you baseball fans haven't had the pleasure of attending minor league and/or spring training games, I highly recommned it. As I've said, I've been going the last couple of years and have really enjoyed the experience. True, some of the play isn't as good as true MLB but you know what, the young guys really hustle. It's their chance to shine, they know it, and that more than makes up for a few flubbed plays in my mind. Plus tickets are cheap as are the hot dogs and brews. Finally, every year I've gone to AZ, I've ran into some really cool people. Fans and celebrities alike. In fact, last year at a Mariners spring training game, I sat down two rows back from home plate right next to Howard Johnson. Ho Jo is scouting now and he was super cool. Signed two baseballs for me (my wife is from NYC and a life long Mets fan (don't even get me started on this season for the Metskies)) and chatted with me in between innings. Great experience for a baseball fan and you know what, the ticket cost me like $5. Beat that!
 
Dr Lane,

Your point is completely valid, I'm sure a similar situation occurs in the auto body repair industry.

The body shops can estimate whatever they choose, but the insurance company paying the claim may only pay up to a certain amount.

I, although it appears that I am in the minority, would not have an issue if, in any of these three cases, the professionals attempted to prevent the capping of their income.

Matt


[This message has been edited by milz50 (edited 28 August 2002).]
 
It doesn't matter anymore.
Come October, the Lakers are back with a vangeance for 4 and will be taking the spotlight away from MLB anyway.

DaHapa,
I feel for you. I used to be a die-hard Angels fan growing up. Unfortunately, after the 1986 pennant run against the Red Sox (if you're a REAL Angel fan, you know what happened) my interest slowly dwindled. This year's Angels are playing rather well--surprisingly. They usually have a hot streak and dies by mid-season. I was actually getting excited for a moment there but then 2 nights ago, the excitement turned to dredd when they dropped a 9-6 lead against...who else, Boston!...I found my head shaking again and that feeling of major let-down coming back was all too familiar. Sigh. Unless they pay the big bucks, they aren't going anywhere.


Also, what so wrong about a salary cap? The NBA has it and enforcing it real well with the luxury tax and everything and look how strong the organization is!
 
Just to chime in again,

L.A. has gone forever without an NFL team and before the Raiders and Rams left, people kept saying how much the city will miss it.

Yeah...right.

In the same token, MLB wouldn't have much of an impact either (especially when baseball was already tarnished with the memory of the LAST strike). We don't care if there's football in L.A. and we probably wouldn't care if there wasn't any baseball either.
 
A season ending players strike is the only way the Devil Rays will avoid 100+ losses this season. And this is the only positive aspect of it.
 
milz50,
I don't disagree with most of what your saying except the Dr. thing. Yea, im a KC fan and your right, this team has been poorly run since Mr. Kauffman passed away and we have suffered thru no ownership and poor GM, but I want to give you something to think about b/f I leave to go to the stadium to see the last game of the year.

1)Minnesota Twins are only 2 games over 500 against the AL East and the A's are not much better.
2)Since the last collective bargining agreement in 94. The top 5% of the market teams have have a 214-5 record against the rest in the AL/NL in the playoffs.
3)Minnesota/Oakland/Seattle, w/all do respect you don't stand a chance against the high rollers.
4)Even the Cards which have a fine team and great fans, with your 70mil payroll you don't have a chance. You cannot compete against the D-backs or Yanks.
5)The Yankees get Jason Weaver and use him as a bullpen guy when he is a starter on most other teams, and don't forget Raul Mondesi for the nice bench guy, also a everyday player on other teams.
6)18 new owners since 1994 and the past owners craped in their own beds, they are just a much to blaim b/c of foolish spending as the players whom ask for more when other more important people with far more important jobs struggle just to make it.
Unlike auto magazines these stats amoung others speak volumes about truth since 1994 even more so recently in the last few years where you can pic the Yanks almost every year, although an occational win might come by another team from time to time.
 
Originally posted by milz50:
Andrie,

I certainly was not saying that baseball players are more important than doctors to society or myself. That would be rediculous.

I was simply trying to draw a parallel between two professions in the context of imposed income ceilings. I do not think the comparison of these situations is absurd.


I still think it is absurd
tongue.gif


Seriously, I don't think those two should be compared. Just from job consequences alone I think Doctor should be rewarded handsomely. If they screw up, it can means human life. If a baseball player screw up. Just look at John Rocker!
 
Couldn't help but post after I went to the last Royals home game of the season. FYI-one of the major radio stations here invited fans into the former r-field general admission sections to voice there displeasure at whats going on. It was proof positive of how sensative fans are on this issue. It would take more time to explain what happened than I care to type. What I can tell you is you may find it enteresting to watch these shows that took video and interviewed some of the fans. For instance "a banner that was at least 30' long that said "HERE IS YOU PAY CHECK" Followed by a image of the finger"

1) Nightline
2)Best damn sports show period
3)Fox sports midwest
4)ESPN
5)Jim Rome

I attended w/a friend that worked for the Royals radio network for several years and we spoke w/several of his former co-workers whom mentioned they were getting alot of attention about this game nationwide as were a small market area. I'll believe it when I see it, but I thought it might be worth mention.
 
HAHAHAHAHAAH
biggrin.gif


Thats toooooo funny about the banner!

I hope the players are REALLY thinking hard about digging their own graves!
 
Originally posted by Joel:


DaHapa,
I feel for you. I used to be a die-hard Angels fan growing up. Unfortunately, after the 1986 pennant run against the Red Sox (if you're a REAL Angel fan, you know what happened) my interest slowly dwindled. This year's Angels are playing rather well--surprisingly. They usually have a hot streak and dies by mid-season. I was actually getting excited for a moment there but then 2 nights ago, the excitement turned to dredd when they dropped a 9-6 lead against...who else, Boston!...I found my head shaking again and that feeling of major let-down coming back was all too familiar. Sigh. Unless they pay the big bucks, they aren't going anywhere.
B]


I was only 14 during the Donnie Moore (although very little of it was his fault) melt down but I remember it well.

Incidently, anyone watching last nights game against Tampa Bay now has a better idea of how we true Angels fans feel. We play well against the big teams (as a matter of fact, I think we have the best record against the Yanks for the last couple of years in all of baseball) but we absolutely choke on the "easy" games. Moreover, we always have the September swan dive.

The Angels are cursed, but I still love 'em. I'm going tonight to what could be the last game of the year.
 
Thank God. No freaking strike.

You guys should have seen the crowd at the Big A last night. Not the usual, benign Anaheim crowd. It was rauckus to say the least.
 
Originally posted by lemansnsx:
...Pay people for contributions to the good of the society - not for being able to hit a ball with a stick!

Andrew-please don't take this personally (I hear a lot of this kind of talk) but...

I think the above opinion is WRONG!! Our system in the USA is based on a capitalist viewpoint. The proper way to "keep score" is your earnings. There isn't a teacher in the world worth what Alex Rodriguez (the Texas Shortsop) is worth because NO ONE IS WILLING TO PAY A TEACHER $250 MILLION. Alex Rodriguez contributes more to society than a teacher. Think of the taxes he pays and the people he employs (both directly-the goods and services he purchases & indirectly-the many people at the ballpark who have their jobs because of him). Again, I say we are a capitalist nation. Who would you have decide who gets paid what based on their "value to society" (the government)?
eek.gif
Would you like it if someone came to your place of work and told you that your job wasn't "valuable enough" to society so you were going to get a pay cut? Actually we do have something like that - its called the FREE MARKET!

Sorry for the rant but I get upset anytime ANYONE says that SOMEONE ELSE makes too much money. It's not up to you - its up to the market. That's the system we have in this country (and whether or not you like it, it has built this country into the most successful nation in the history of the world!)

(Again, these comments are not directed at Andrew Henderson, but to all who share this opinion - his was just the easiest quote to refer to)

------------------
'91 Black/Black
 
you are correct, the market/capitalism is based upon willingness to pay for given person/services.

THAT is the point. The values are all screwed up. And keep in mind that baseball is rather like hollywood. the owners are the producers and they are HOPING that their end product can/will justify their investments. how many movies get made where the actors get paid huge salaries and then the movie sucks and the market pays out little to nothing. was the 'player'/actor worth what he/she was paid???

but more importantly, are baseball players worth more to our society than teachers? should we be paying more for teachers than we are? It is again a question of our values.
 
Back
Top