Brake Upgrades
Ok it's just about time for brakes, (the moment I've been waiting for). My intentions are to add S.S. braided lines, Track/Street pads on stock calipers with slightly larger cross drilled rotors and possibly senthetic fluid. My OEM calipers currently fit within my aftermarket wheels (picture withheld to spare me the shame of everyones honesty)barely clearing the inside edge of the 5 spokes but with seemingly enough room to expand the rotor size outward.
My question is, will I be able to install larger aftermarket (slotted or crossdrilled) rotors and keep my OEM calipers? Are there modified mounting brackets available to mount my calipers around larger rotors?
No, and even if you could it would be a waste because the pads would still be the same size.In other words larger rotors will give you more surface area,but braking contact area stays the same.
Larger surface area has better disapation for heat but thats another issue.
I think it depends on what you want to do. If your intentions are to track the car, you might want to go with a larger caliper setup such as Brembo or AP Racing calipers as they will make use of the larger rotor area better. If you just want a slightly more aggressive setup, I think that changing your pads to something like RM Racing pads and maybe change your fluid to to a higher grade fluid.
Craig,
I am going to caution you about going to DOT5 brake fluid. This fluid is not compatable with DOT3 or DOT4. So you CANNOT mix even the slightest amount of this fluid. This means a COMPLETE brake system overhaul including caliper rebuilds and master cylinder rebuild to insure all the old fluid is out.
Normally I have only done this in race car applications, with entirely new brake systems. I think if you go with DOT4 ATE Blue or Motul you will be fine and avoid all the hassle above.
The real key to better brakes is to first get them as much cooling as possible. If you track the car and are an experienced driver, you just may have to go to the big brake setup.
HTH,
LarryB
Asimo Motorsport "Personal Car Care for your NSX" [email protected]
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I'll go beyond Larry's cautioning and flat out say: do not go to DOT5 brake fluid.
Regarding your upgrade, not only is there no real point in trying to use bigger rotors with stock-sized everything else, it would be a real pain because you would have to relocate the stock calipers outward.
What are you trying to accomplish here? What problem are you trying to solve with this upgrade? If you let us know what you're after I'm sure we can give you some suggestions.
so far, nobody makes modified brackets for bigger rotors yet. Also you should make sure your wheel would still after you have pushed out the calipers when using bigger rotors/longer brackets.
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George
I am going to caution you about going to DOT5 brake fluid.
I think if you go with DOT4 ATE Blue or Motul you will be fine
Note that Motul 600 brake fluid meets the high-temperature (wet and dry boiling point) requirements of DOT 5 brake fluid, even though it is labeled as a DOT 4 fluid. So there's also no need to go to DOT 5, which is silicone-based brake fluid and (as noted by the others) creates problems because of its incompatibility with DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids.
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It is actually not really a waste. Braking will be improved slightly even when the pads and pressure is the same. But the lever arm increase thus require less force to clamp those rotors down to stop. The other benefit with bigger rotors is it cooled better. Bigger surface area to dissipate the heat.Originally posted by Bruce:
No, and even if you could it would be a waste because the pads would still be the same size.In other words larger rotors will give you more surface area,but braking contact area stays the same.
Larger surface area has better disapation for heat but thats another issue.
I was exploring this method before. Experimenting with AEM products for Type R and Prelude but they uses thinner rotors. It is pretty simple to make the bracket yourself. Make sure u design it well as a little mis-alignment of the caliper can cause u big. I ceased the projects cause the dollar/performance value is not worth it.
I agree with the fact that braking torque will not change with increased rotor diameter but disagree with implying that brake pad size affects braking ability. It does not. Brake pad size should only be increased when pad life is inadequate.Originally posted by Bruce:
No, and even if you could it would be a waste because the pads would still be the same size.In other words larger rotors will give you more surface area,but braking contact area stays the same.
Larger surface area has better disapation for heat but thats another issue.
Originally posted by vicster:
I agree with the fact that braking torque will not change with increased rotor diameter but disagree with implying that brake pad size affects braking ability. It does not. Brake pad size should only be increased when pad life is inadequate.
Braking torque will actually change. Longer lever arm (bigger diameter rotor).
The brake pads size does affect braking ability. More surface area, more friction.
If you are not planning on doing any major mods (Turbos, SC, NOS) and you only plan on doing some regional track events, I would go with a simple set up. I recently ordered a set of Powerstop cross drilled rotors through Comptech and a set of track/street pads from RM Racing. I choose to stay with the stock sized rotors because otherwise I would need to purchase two sets of wheels and tires; one for the road, the other for the track. I have also tried every DOT 4 brake fluid out there, and my best results so far has been with the Valvoline Synthetic Dot 3/4 compatible fluid. Please no flames because of the Valvoline, but it really does feel better to me and others whom have driven my car on the track with my new rotor/pad set-up, stainless steel brake lines and Hoosier slicks. Just my $.02.
Education will never be as expensive as ignorance.
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The Feb. (current) issue of Grassroots Motorsports - a magazine for people who race, but not professionally - has a pretty good basic brake tech article. It addresses many of your questions, and a few other things you should consider. The pub is really geared towards people who seriously track their cars several times a year, so there is not much of the usual speed parts hype. It's about $5, but considering how much you are about to spend on brakes, I think that is a bargin.
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I recently ordered a set of Powerstop cross drilled rotors through Comptech
Make sure you check the vents along the edge of the rotor to make sure they are centered between the two faces. I bought a set of their PowerStop rotors and there was "core shift" (where several of the vents were off-center) which caused those rotors to crack. Comptech did not give me any reimbursement for their defective rotors.
NSX. Spread the word.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I bought a set of their PowerStop rotors and there was "core shift" (where several of the vents were off-center) which caused those rotors to crack. Comptech did not give me any reimbursement for their defective rotors.
Did Powerslot offer you any type of reinbursement?
Anyway, I guess it's too late for me because I've already put 300 miles of hard track driving on them two weeks ago. But, I'll definetly consider what you mentioned the next time I buy new rotors, and I'll be sure to inspect them more carefully.
Thanks for the information.
[This message has been edited by Dr.Lane (edited 10 January 2001).]
Education will never be as expensive as ignorance.
BU Terriers: 2009 NCAA Div I Hockey Champions
RIP: Honda/Acura NSX (1991-2005)
I bought a set of their PowerStop rotors and there was "core shift" (where several of the vents were off-center) which caused those rotors to crack. Comptech did not give me any reimbursement for their defective rotors.
Did Powerslot offer you any type of reinbursement?
No, because they were PowerStop rotors, not PowerSlot rotors. Those are two different companies.
PowerSlot did not offer reimbursement either. But I bought them from Comptech, and Comptech was not at all accommodating - telling me to return them, and then refusing any kind of compensation. VERY poor customer service.
NSX. Spread the word.
OK...Got it, Stock sized aftermarket slotted or drilled rotors, Track/Street pads, Motul Fluid, S.S. lines and maybe some front ducts.
By the way someone asked what my objective is...and that would be to reduce brake fade when things heat up without spending big bucks on a full set of Brembos. I have not yet tracked the car but hope to soon...I do drive the tight twisties hard enough sometimes to heat the stock set up to the point of considerable fade. I'm just looking for a slightly modified set up that won't turn my pockets inside out.
Thanks everyone for the input.
Andrie,so what sre you trying to say?
"It is actually not really a waste."
"I ceased the projects cause the dollar/performance value is not worth it."
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