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Thread: Question about brake bleeding procedure

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    Charter Gold YellowHaze's Avatar
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    Question about brake bleeding procedure

    After researching prime and reading enough posts on how to properly bleed/flush the brake system, I figured I was ready. My trusty assistant was in the cockpit following my commands for pressing the brake pedal ~2/3 of the way per depression cycle.

    I loosened the bleed screw and fixed the vinly tubing on it with the other end of the tubing going into a bottle through the cap with a hole I drilled into it. So far, so good, right? I also used a zip tie on the end of the tube fitted onto the bleed screw to make sure no air got in.

    Here's my question. If the bleed screw is loosened, even a bit, doesn't air get in while going through the brake pedal pressing procedure? That's what looked like happended each time the brake pedal was pushed. Am I missing something?
    Last edited by YellowHaze; 06-10-2009 at 21:03.

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    Registered Vendor Briank's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Standard manual 2 person brake bleeding requires pressure applied to the petal, bleeder opened, bleed and then closed then the petal is released and reapplied for the next cycle. Releasing the petal with the bleeder open can draw air back in to the caliper making it impossible to get a hard petal. Speed bleeders remove the open and close part of the bleeding process because they have one way check valves so they can't suck air back and the threads have sealer on them to keep air from leaking back that way.

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    Charter Gold YellowHaze's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Briank View Post
    Standard manual 2 person brake bleeding requires pressure applied to the petal, bleeder opened, bleed and then closed then the petal is released and reapplied for the next cycle. Releasing the petal with the bleeder open can draw air back in to the caliper making it impossible to get a hard petal. Speed bleeders remove the open and close part of the bleeding process because they have one way check valves so they can't suck air back and the threads have sealer on them to keep air from leaking back that way.
    That makes sense. I recall reading one DIY thread where it said once the bottle end of the tube is submersed in fluid, air won't get sucked back in. Obviously, that is not right as you properly stated. Thanks Brian! Your help is always appreciated and on target.

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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    1) Set your tube up so it goes up first then down. Having the end submerged will only prevent air from entering if the whole tube if full of brake fluid. By going up first then down you will create a reservoir such that if you accidentally release the pedal it will just draw the same fluid that went out back in.

    2) Also if you just bleeding the brakes (not flushing) you can make it a one man operation and ensure it won't draw in air. How you ask... a piece of pvc pipe and your automatic seat. Just place one end on the pedal and the other on a rail. Advance the seat and the tube will depress the pedal and bend a little. Go to the break and turn bolt and release the fluid. Re-tighten, move the seat back and then repeat. (This could be used to flush them but it would take forever)


    Or you can get speed bleeders.

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    Charter Platinum RON98's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Pump till firm --> keep applying pressure ( you can push as hard as you can) --> Open bleed screw --> Close bleed screw ---> repeat.

    you can also gravity bleed. Open the bleeder, the fluid will work its way down. Close when fluid is clear.

    make sure to top BF off as you go.
    Last edited by RON98; 06-10-2009 at 23:32.
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Also be sure to bleed starting from the farthest caliper from the master cylinder working toward the closest. That is, right rear, left rear, right front and ending with the left front.
    Ken Crowell
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    Charter Champion Larry Bastanza's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by ChopsJazz View Post
    Also be sure to bleed starting from the farthest caliper from the master cylinder working toward the closest. That is, right rear, left rear, right front and ending with the left front.
    Sorry to say, but that would be incorrect for the NSX, and most modern cars, especially Honda's. It is: RR, LF, LR, RF

    The brake lines are cross plumbed for safety reasons, and this is the specified bleeding sequence.

    There is also a WAY easier way to do this. Go to the Autoparts store and buy a "One Man Bleeder" tool. Cost a few bucks, and it is a hose with a one way check valve. Just open the bleeder and pump steadily, no helper required, no air allowed back up the bleed line.

    If you get this little gem of the tool, you can get the helper to do it, while you drink beer.

    HTH,
    LarryB

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    Charter Gold YellowHaze's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Thanks for all the good input guys. With this operation, there are a few key things to do to properly to ensure it gets done right. Don't know what I'd do without Prime and its great members.

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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Excellent tips. However despite using these (and 2 cans of ATE blue) there was still some soft pedal action left on my NSX brakes. Then I tapped calipers with a mallett (non metal) while bleeding and that released additional, tiny air bubbles (probably stuck somewhere inside the calipers). Made a difference. Hope that helps.

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    Charter Gold jagtiger's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Hey Steve,

    Check out Danoland NSX Do it yourself website. It's a very good source of DIY instructions.

    http://www.danoland.com/nsxgarage/br...eed/bleed.html


    Also, I installed Speed bleeder and it makes the job like a walk in the park. I can bleed the brakes without even taking the tires off.
    Good Luck!

    http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showt...t=speedbleeder

    -Henry
    Last edited by jagtiger; 06-11-2009 at 09:42.
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    My favorite way:

    - Open brake reservoir and suck out old fluid with turkey baister and refill
    - Open rear bleeder (with hose attached) and have a beer (take your time and relax a little - maybe 20 minutes), then top off reservior and close bleeder
    - Move to next bleeder (follow LarryB's order) open, have beer, top off, close
    - Repeat same on last 2 calipers and top off reservior.
    - I find this job enjoyable and relaxing. CHEERS!

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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bastanza View Post
    Sorry to say, but that would be incorrect for the NSX, and most modern cars, especially Honda's. It is: RR, LF, LR, RF

    The brake lines are cross plumbed for safety reasons, and this is the specified bleeding sequence.
    Thanks Larry.
    Ken Crowell
    '91 Sebring Silver
    FSTR N U

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    Charter Champion Larry Bastanza's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by pgilliam1 View Post
    My favorite way:

    - Open rear bleeder (with hose attached) and have a beer (take your time and relax a little - maybe 20 minutes), then top off reservior and close bleeder
    -
    MMM.....so this is Ron98's gravity method!!!!!!!!!!!

    Regards,
    LarryB

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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by pgilliam1 View Post
    - Open rear bleeder (with hose attached) and have a beer (take your time and relax a little - maybe 20 minutes), then top off reservior and close bleeder
    Take A LOT of time. I won't recommend it because if you have very small air bubbles hidden in the edges of the system you won't bring them out for sure. A one-man-bleeder is better.

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    Charter Gold YellowHaze's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by jagtiger View Post
    Hey Steve,

    Check out Danoland NSX Do it yourself website. It's a very good source of DIY instructions.

    http://www.danoland.com/nsxgarage/br...eed/bleed.html

    Good Luck!

    -Henry
    Hi Henry,

    Yea, that was the first place I looked. Seems I was just a little uncertain about either using speed bleeders, using a wrench to tighten the bleed screw with each pedal depression, or going with a suction type of unit as Larry and others suggested. I think buying a suction type unit which does not entail replacing the stock bleed screws is the way to go.

    Thanks again to all for the good input.

    Steve

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    Charter Silver pgilliam1's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bastanza View Post
    MMM.....so this is Ron98's gravity method!!!!!!!!!!!

    Regards,
    LarryB
    Gravity is a good thing - it keeps us grounded. It also helps bleed brakes with one person and gives us a cause to drink beer !

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    NSXPrime Platinum RYU's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bastanza View Post
    It is: RR, LF, LR, RF

    The brake lines are cross plumbed for safety reasons, and this is the specified bleeding sequence.

    There is also a WAY easier way to do this. Go to the Autoparts store and buy a "One Man Bleeder" tool. Cost a few bucks, and it is a hose with a one way check valve. Just open the bleeder and pump steadily, no helper required, no air allowed back up the bleed line.

    If you get this little gem of the tool, you can get the helper to do it, while you drink beer.

    HTH,
    LarryB
    Good to know on the bleed sequence. Crap, i've been doing it wrong this whole time (i.e. RR,RL,FR,FL)

    What 1-man bleeder do you recommend? There's such a big range out there and I haven't seen any good bleed tools that are under say $50-60. Don't really want to spend that much since my friend just cost me a beer and burger

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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by ryu View Post
    What 1-man bleeder do you recommend?
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bastanza View Post
    Go to the Autoparts store and buy a "One Man Bleeder" tool. Cost a few bucks, and it is a hose with a one way check valve. Just open the bleeder and pump steadily, no helper required, no air allowed back up the bleed line.
    My only concern is on the very last pump, when you release the pedal, a little bit of air will get sucked in before tightening the screw. When I use my vacuum bleeder I'm surprised by how much air is able to get past the threads.

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    Charter Gold YellowHaze's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    After a little more research, I decided to buy the Speed Bleeders. I was puzzled by a review on their own website of an NSX owner who used their bleeders only to have them leak. Why would they post something like that? However, all other reviews from Prime and other sources swore by this product.

    So, today I installed them and proceeded to complete my brake flush and bleed process. They worked perfectly! Now, my brake system is comprised of fresh DOT 4 fluid and the brakes are tight with no air bubbles. I'm ready for Willow Springs come August!


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    Charter Platinum Dhalsim's Avatar
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    Re: Question about brake bleeding procedure

    Quote Originally Posted by YellowHaze View Post
    After a little more research, I decided to buy the Speed Bleeders. I was puzzled by a review on their own website of an NSX owner who used their bleeders only to have them leak. Why would they post something like that? However, all other reviews from Prime and other sources swore by this product.

    So, today I installed them and proceeded to complete my brake flush and bleed process. They worked perfectly! Now, my brake system is comprised of fresh DOT 4 fluid and the brakes are tight with no air bubbles. I'm ready for Willow Springs come August!
    I didnt write that review on the Speed Bleeder site but when I put those on and tried to bleed the system I couldnt seem to get all the air out. So I promptly took them off and went the 2 person route and everythign was fine.
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