White NA1 on ebay JH4NA1156NT001208

Re: MINT white NA1 on ebay...

And Matt that's exactly how my first post to this thread read - right. I agree I'll do my part to keep on topic.

Re: MINT white NA1 on ebay...

JBZ said:

I do not believe this NSX (JH4NA1156NT001208 / 14,XXX miles) qualifies as a “museum piece” as the seller claims, but for those of you who may be interested in the vehicle, I am providing the following observations, impressions, and photos during a recent PPI at McGrath Acura:

- There was paint work front and rear – which was not disclosed.
- The paint workmanship was of poor quality and did not match (in person you can easily see up to four different shades of white).
- The paint masking tape showed obvious bleeding marks (#0013/engine bay) and was not even straight (#0005/rear bumper).
- There seems to have been a few attempts to repair damage and/or dents, such as the right rear quarter panel and the trunk lid (#0010 and #0012/bodyshop “dots” weren’t even removed!!).
- A black undercoating was sprayed on the rear part of the car. It was difficult to understand why undercoating was used and/or what it may have been attempting to hide. Nonetheless, the undercoating workmanship was of poor quality (#0037, #0042, and #0043).
- Non-OEM / incorrectly sized wheels must have been on vehicle at some point as there were signs of rubbing inside both front wheel arches (#0003 and #0004).
- OEM wheels were scratched (#0048).
- OEM tires were flat spotted and rough looking. During the road test, the technician noted that the tires were loud, braking was impacted, and that there was an indeterminable “thunking” sound emanating from the left-rear suspension.
- The exhaust baffle was dented (#0006).
- There were signs of battery leakage (#0039).
- Etc...
- Non-existent service history with respect to TB/WP.
- A compression test was scheduled but not performed due to the findings of PPI.

JBZ.

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Wow. Not sure where to start. First off I take SIGNIFICANT issue with the fact that you are able to post pictures that were taken in the service department of a franchised Acura store. It's McGrath Acura in Westmont as you have specified, and it is an extreme breach of privacy, not to mention wholly slanderous.

This car was brought by my company, Chicago Cars Direct, to McGrath Acura in good will. Having no reason for concern with the quality of the car (I put over 250 miles on the car myself after having it independently inspected), I ASSUMED the Acura inspection report I received (posted on this thread) was accurate. Here I sit, bewildered, as I find not only a smear report about my car, but detailed photos of it on a lift in McGrath Acura dealer's service department! I'm not sure who is the real enemy here, as the only flaw noted on the “Acura Certified Pre-Owned” report is an inoperable driver's door amplifier. The car “meets Acura standards” for all other criteria, including 8/32” of tread on the tires, and 8mm of brake pad depth front, 7mm of pad depth rear. Keep in mind, I did not represent the car as having new tires

I'd like to address all of these “professional concerns”, and also refer back to each and every picture posted on this thread.

-There was paint work front and rear – which was not disclosed.
- The paint workmanship was of poor quality and did not match (in person you can easily see up to four different shades of white).
- The paint masking tape showed obvious bleeding marks (#0013/engine bay) and was not even straight (#0005/rear bumper).

Your pictures are entirely inconclusive, and again, I want to know who determined that any of this varies from factory standards. So, even if a bumper had been painted or even touched up , clearly it meets Acura Certified standards, as I have the documentation included to improve it. I'm sure McGrath Acura's management team would love to hear that.

-There seems to have been a few attempts to repair damage and/or dents, such as the right rear quarter panel and the trunk lid (#0010 and #0012/bodyshop “dots” weren’t even removed!!).

Since I'm a very successful dealer, I need to have ways of simply communicating to my staff that cars are completely serviced, detailed, and ready for sale. The “pink” dot merely indicates that the car has completed it's detailing, has been inspected, and the necessary fluids have been changed. Those “dots” remain on my cars until they are sold and being delivered to their customers, hence the reason that it is placed in such an inconspicuous spot.

- A black undercoating was sprayed on the rear part of the car. It was difficult to understand why undercoating was used and/or what it may have been attempting to hide. Nonetheless, the undercoating workmanship was of poor quality (#0037, #0042, and #0043).

For some of the less educated, undercoating is sold by dealerships to inflate the retail profit on sold cars. All this likely tells me is that the original owner decided to have the car rustproofed and undercoated, as evidenced by the included pictures. Sometimes body shops do use undercoating to hide previous repairs, and regardless of the workmanship, this undercoating is evenly applied throughout the entire car, which indicates it was installed when the car was new. Again, not sure who decided that was a fault or flaw...

- Non-OEM / incorrectly sized wheels must have been on vehicle at some point as there were signs of rubbing inside both front wheel arches (#0003 and #0004).

The rubbing contact spots are accurate, and as many NSX owners know, many people install their own choice of wheels. The contact areas are tiny spots, and they are there, however I wasn't aware that such a small spot inside a wheelwell would compromise a vehicle. Oh wait, it doesn't.

- OEM wheels were scratched (#0048).

This is detailed in our pictures in all of our listings, and an easy correction when these things are discussed, not just posted on a forum to find out later.

- OEM tires were flat spotted and rough looking. During the road test, the technician noted that the tires were loud, braking was impacted, and that there was an indeterminable “thunking” sound emanating from the left-rear suspension.

Tires are not rough looking (no picture of that, go figure), and any soft compound tire will flat-spot after a couple of days of sitting in my beautiful, 17,000 sq. ft. climate-controlled, indoor warehouse. I could keep the flat spots from happening, but I don't want my staff running around town every day in an immaculate, classic NSX. Again, I put over 250 miles on it. I would have been the first person complaining had I heard any of that. And where again can I find that on the inspection report?

-The exhaust baffle was dented (#0006).

Detailed in our pictures, and never had that been “hidden” or “undisclosed”. This is still a 17 year old car, mind you. This is an original car, not a "ground-up" restoration.

- There were signs of battery leakage (#0039).

If that was considered battery leakage, I'd be floored. Remember, a 17 year old car is still aged by the elements. All the pictures displays to me is a bit of surface oxidization, not corrosion from battery acid. Think about it...look at the picture again, and use your own head to make that determination.

- Etc..

What?

- Non-existent service history with respect to TB/WP.

I knew this when I bought the car as well, which is why I had NO concern in letting the local, previously reputable Acura dealer take a look at it. I had my own technicians inspect the car, and these are guys who have an incredible resume of high-end and exotic sports car experience gave it a clean bill of health, telling me the only thing it needed was to be driven! That's the confidence that I need to buy these cars, at least before I sell it.

-A compression test was scheduled but not performed due to the findings of PPI.

Why? Why didn't you do the test?

Needless to say, if I was a deceptive dealer, would I go to such incredible lengths to refute such implicating statements? I created a 10-minute video of this car and have a 100% eBay feedback rating, what do I have to hide? Please look over the Acura CPO sheets I've attached. I hope this restores a bit of my good name. I'll deal with McGrath Acura on Monday....

Best-

Chris Moran
Chicago Cars Direct

^^^^
all I can say is if you are looking for big money for this car then you are going to need to put big money in it. The car appears to be ragged out IMO. That tape job is horrendous. And I would remove the comment about all your cars getting flat spotted from sitting in your warehouse for a few days. Tires don't truly flat spot in a few days and once they are flat spotted it doesn't go away. The way you have your comment it appears, to me, that every car you have has flat spotted tires.

Any other dealers you know who use the red dot to signify a process is complete? How many body shops use the red dot? How many junkyards? If it were me I wouldn't use the red dot or yellow or any dot for that matter.

steveny said:

^^^^
all I can say is if you are looking for big money for this car then you are going to need to put big money in it. The car appears to be ragged out IMO. That tape job is horrendous. And I would remove the comment about all your cars getting flat spotted from sitting in your warehouse for a few days. Tires don't truly flat spot in a few days and once they are flat spotted it doesn't go away. The way you have your comment it appears, to me, that every car you have has flat spotted tires.

Any other dealers you know who use the red dot to signify a process is complete? How many body shops use the red dot? How many junkyards? If it were me I wouldn't use the red dot or yellow or any dot for that matter.

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Well from his argument, maybe they flat spot because the car is in a beautiful, climate-controlled 17,000 square foot indoor warehouse.

jonas1jp said:

Well from his argument, maybe they flat spot because the car is in a beautiful, climate-controlled 17,000 square foot indoor warehouse.

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There are few uninformed NSX buyers. A NSX is not a car a dealer can buy on the cheap at the auction and then sell it to some uninformed wide-eyed kid with 10k in their pocket like they can a camaro with a shiny set of rims. Even the wide eyed kid is going to have to be pretty smart to save up 30K for a NSX.

Re: MINT white NA1 on ebay...

ChicagoCarsDirect said:

Wow. Not sure where to start.....

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I think you need to just deal in used Civics and Camry's. You CLEARLY have no business selling high end cars let alone exotics.

There are some things a "Yes or No" checklist doesn't cover. Just because it meets Acura Certified standards doesn't mean it's a "museum piece". I applaud JBZ for going into the details of the car that a Joe-worker mechanic can't.

dablackgoku1234 said:

There are some things a "Yes or No" checklist doesn't cover. Just because it meets Acura Certified standards doesn't mean it's a "museum piece". I applaud JBZ for going into the details of the car that a Joe-worker mechanic can't.

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+1.

This Joe-worker mechanic was paid by the boss and was told what to do. What a screwed-up dealer boss. I guess that is why they are salesmen- no integrity and honesty.

JBZ, you the man!!

Lol I think this is the second thread about a car for sale that did'nt measure up and the dealer came on crying foul Anyone remember that thread

Looks like Mr. Chicago Carsdirect dealer sold the car to the Lambo dealer in Westmont, Illinois

With all the negative reviews this car got, he was going to have a hard time moving it. I wonder if the Lambo dealer is aware of its history.


http://www.cars.com/go/search/detai...kId=20001&rpp=50&feedSegId=28705&aff=national

Silver F16 said:

Looks like Mr. Chicago Carsdirect dealer sold the car to the Lambo dealer in Westmont, Illinois

With all the negative reviews this car got, he was going to have a hard time moving it. I wonder if the Lambo dealer is aware of its history.


http://www.cars.com/go/search/detai...kId=20001&rpp=50&feedSegId=28705&aff=national

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I believe this Lambo dealer is part of the Luxury Motors network, and therefore are QUITE used to and capable of moving POS cars

Interesting thing going on here - in this economy, the car has been on eBay off and on (and other places) since April '09 (maybe longer, but that's when I noticed it).

Here's the pricing:

4/09: $31,500
9/09: $37,500
10/09: $39,987

Mileage has stayed roughly the same - with few hundred miles added as time goes by....

So does this mean by next April it'll be up to $50K after being driven another 250 miles and swapped between 3-5 more dealers? Yow - I wish anyone luck who buys this and puts it in their "Museum"

....Also, having a 92 white/black in better shape, I hope this theory proves right, but have serious doubts

Well this has been really interesting to read all this from the "poor ole dealer" that got all chewed up by the guys on this site! Great stuff. Goes to show what folks think of Prime and its followers- we must weild just a bit of weight! GOOD!

I saw this when it was in Chicago at a dealer there and I was about to buy it then but it was bought up or somehow traded to this new dealer that's crying. Then JBZ got up on it and found the paint and now the dealer is crying foul? First of all any "museum quality" car has no paint damage and I was unaware that Honda put under coating paint on an aluminum car that doesn't rust? Anyone care to answer that?

His "crack" mechanics say that all the car needs is driving and that hoses and TBs and WPs are just fine - might be - anyone here care to test that theory - sure is contrary to everything I've ever heard from real respectable mechanics like Larry B or Barney (barn man). I don't think this guys argument holds water.

Many good posts on this one. Good detective work and we have a great site and I'm mighty happy to be part of it! Thanks to everyone posting on this one.

Nice job, all. This car is now at a dealer outside Chicago. I saw it last weekend with a friend who bought a couple of cars and then we drove them back to Denver. I took it around the block. It seemed OK, but then I know nothing about these cars. Seeing it and driving it got me intrigued, so I would appreciate a heads-up if anyone knows of a good car for sale. I would prefer an older stock car. Don't care much about color except no yellow.
Thanks

I hate to ask - what are they asking for it now? I would buy from a good primer. You'll save in the long run. Read this whole thread really carefully - maybe you did -and if so forget it and move on to the next one.

You know fellows, some of what the PPI stated and what I see in the pics don't add up the same.

The pic of the trough around the engine compartment shows that black was likely repainted. That's no big deal. The black here is not uncommon to wear off because it is so thin from the factory. That someone repainted that and left a little bit of a rough edge which is easily made nice, does not mean wreck or damage, just a over zealous detailer in a hurry. This pic is silly close, I mean look at the size of the bolts in the pic. they look like lug nuts.

The edge on the bumper by the exhaust looks like it could be factory as well. They can look like that and some from the factory do.

The color on the underside of the battery tray? The battery front horizontal hold down, though covered in rubber often does rust and weep down onto the tray in this fashion. Not a real catastrophe. Not all that usual. Again, turn off the alarm.

The black undercoating is not a flag. In fact again this is not uncommon. It was there from the factory to keep the wheel opening looking black from the outside and maybe, maybe this has be touched uo or re-applied. It does not look like it is concealing frame damage, just the color that is under this spot that surfaces after the car is on the road for a while.

A tiny little boink in the heat shield on the muffler? Get real. This is a PPI? Do they know what to really look for?

A 5 min adjustment on the trunk lid? Could the problem in the photo be from being on a lift when photographed? The pics on the dealer web site don't look like this. The trunk gaps are a touch off but, again, many of these cars are.

Tiny little rubs in the inside front wheelhouse? Maybe someone bolted on a set of 17's or 18's to see how they would look and the tire size was wrong. This is looks like it could come from one U-turn in the parking lot not a beating.

This is what a PPI comes up with? No compression test? They use these little nothings in the pics as a reason to skip doing a compression test?

I haven't seen the car in person but as someone who has to write and photograph vehicle damage to the tune of 30+ cars a week, what I is see here does not support the damning I'm seeing here.
Most companies I write for would be giving me a phone call or e-mail telling me that my photos don't support my claim and to do a better job, or bye.

This car could be a stinker but I don't see that with these photos or the ones on their site.

Hey, I guess it's fun to have a pile on now and then.

It's silly to make such a big issue of what I see here. Not doing a compression test is kind of lame, especially if you're there,and have access, like it seems they did. Of course, if the person doing the PPI didn't have permission to be there and that's why they didn't do it that's another matter.

$39,500 is a very strong price for this car. More than I would pay regardless of the condition. Museum piece? Not in my book but it looks like it could be a nice car if you wan to pay that much.
Now if it were a NA2 coupe...:biggrin::biggrin:

They want 35,900 now. By the way, the guy there did show me that the front bumper had been resprayed. I don't think they are scumbags really. You just have to watch out for your own when buying a used car. I wonder how they came to hold the car?

I am really impressed with this site. I have been going through the various checklists and have searched for and found the VIN's for several different listed cars which is very helpful. I had been thinking about maybe getting a Porsche GT3 or a used R8 but I saw the NSX last weekend and was really taken by it. I have read about them before and know they have a following so I decided to check it out. I am going to look at a 91 over lunch tommorrow. It is the 91 that is at Weisco motorcars here in Denver. Thanks

An 17 year old car that is notorious for road rash on the front bumper is resprayed? If it's a good job SO WHAT.

BTW you have a BIG price and performance difference between a 1992 NSX and a GT3 or a R8.

Good examples of the latter two will buy you 2-3, 1992 NSX's.