Profiling

**playswfire** · 08-12-2009, 03:22

Got profiled by the Palm Beach Narc Squad a few years ago;

They routinely searched cars using box cutters to inspect upholstery in those days;

Was stopped by several cars several officers in each, most had little (Uzi?) machine guns all pointed at me.

My options as outlined by the officer in charge were that I could wait for a warrant on Monday and spend the weekend there (Clewiston Fl.) or sign a form that allowed them to search the vehicle.

I wrote a paragraph dealing with the condition of the vehicle upon return on the form;

They found some teflon resin in the console, and a chrome timing light (gun style) in the trunk;

Everyone was very polite and they let me know the only reason they stopped me because I matched a profile (Young guy with a new sporty car commuting from Miami to Gainesville every Friday). All told it took about an hour - I didn't really freak out until I was back on the road.

**Leongboy** · 08-12-2009, 07:32

Let the guy do his job! The NSX is a car the is easily stolen. I has a VERY dated alarm system with not theft deterence system. You should be grateful you still have LOE who is on the ball. He probably saw something suspicious and was just doing a routine running of your plates.

**nbuch001** · 08-12-2009, 09:10

Originally Posted by DRIFTER

Ok, but If you have nothing to hide then what is the big deal? you can wait for the dogs, or have the cop find something to write you for, or you could give the cop permission to do his job and be on your way.

I get pulled over for tinted windows all the time coming home from a late night. I have been asked to step out of the car and had my car searched. I have nothing to hide and don’t drink and drive. I was back on the road with no ticket in 15min.

I guess the difference is I live in a small town with small town cops. You piss off one and you will know it. Its just not worth the trouble.

Of course you can always relinquish your right to privacy/property and such but some people regard the issue as a fundamental right meaning the essense of the right is "don't touch my property." It stems from other property principles such as adverse possession. For example, if some one lives on your property for a number of years, visibly and openly (not exact definition) they can obtain title to that property. Also if your neighbor encroaches on your property and makes improvements to that land, prop taxes included under the assumption he owns that land, he can lay claim to your land! So from the begenning of U.S. history property is very important and highly protected by law so long as you PROTECT it. Meaning, if somone builds a wall on your land you actually have the right to tear it down. I think once you begin to read where the laws derive from it is easier to understand why not letting an officer search your car is an important right.

Also a little side note on racial profiling. I am every bit against it as the next guy but I think about it this way. If I am in another country and there is a crime committed by a white Seventh Day Adventist (just raised that way) could I really blame the authorities for stopping me? Yeah I would be upset but look at it objectively. There is a small percentage of people that cause problems for the masses. It's terrible but if you walk, talk, "look" like a another person that has committed a crime it is human nature to wonder... It doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do and it should be changed but how is the real question. As always everybody has a solution or their own thoughts on profiling but a difinitive answer still has never been given.

**SouthFloridaCarFan** · 08-12-2009, 09:16

BINGOOOooooooooooo

Originally Posted by pbassjo

We have a police officer who has not said ONE word to you.

He did not detain or question you.

You did not like the look on his face.

You suggest you knew what he was thinking and what his motives were when really, you have no way of knowing, unless you have powers like Sookie Stackhouse.

What an apt title to this thread. You profiled the officer.

**BATMANs** · 08-12-2009, 09:32

Originally Posted by pbassjo

We have a police officer who has not said ONE word to you.

He did not detain or question you.

You did not like the look on his face.

You suggest you knew what he was thinking and what his motives were when really, you have no way of knowing, unless you have powers like Sookie Stackhouse.

What an apt title to this thread. You profiled the officer.

Amen.

Also the officer was probably curious about the OP like any person that is into cars........... except he has the powers to look a little deeper into how u got ur wealth.

Not long ago 2 people pulled up to a local exotic car meet with a C-GT and Veyron.

Withing minutes people of all races that were there were all trying to figure out what the owners do for a living - so that they can gauge or emmulate them.

lessor cars guys have asked me what I do for a living to gauge my wealth, secret to success, etc........

**rbilder** · 08-12-2009, 09:41

Originally Posted by BATMANs

Amen.
lessor cars guys have asked me what I do for a living to gauge my wealth, secret to success, etc........

Shoot.. you can give them a simple answer, "You are Batman."

I like your post's by the way... help live'n up prime... call it devil's advocate or whatever... gets us all thinking and talk'n.

**4AU4LIFE** · 08-12-2009, 12:23

Originally Posted by raven

all this trooper saw was a black man driving a car that obviously he couldn't afford.

First off all, I'm also sorry to hear that you felt profiled by this officer. Of course, just like any other line of work, there are bad apples in every batch. However, I would think that it is the mentality of cops to be suspicious of everyone. JMHO
I would like to know what makes you think that he couldn't afford an NSX? Have you seen some of the toys( cars, boats, homes) that LEO have? YOu might want to rethink that statement.
You are making the exact kind of comment about him that you thought he was thinking of you.......
Just a thought.

**BATMANs** · 08-12-2009, 12:47

Originally Posted by rbilder

.......I like your post's by the way... help live'n up prime... call it devil's advocate or whatever... gets us all thinking and talk'n.

Thanks.

I get that on alot of forums.

People usually say that I'm the devil's advocate that speaks/posts what people think but are afraid from letting other peer in their head.

I'm certain that alot of people wouldn't mind be profiled or discriminated against when they go home at the end of the day knowing that they are making women's legs shake violently with their EBONY ROOSTERS.

**NSXLVR** · 08-12-2009, 12:59

I'm a 24 year old black guy who drive an NSX and also happens to date a beautiful woman of a milk like complexation

I get profiled all the time...I fuckin shower in that shit

**NSXLVR** · 08-12-2009, 13:01

Originally Posted by Leongboy

Let the guy do his job! The NSX is a car the is easily stolen. I has a VERY dated alarm system with not theft deterence system. You should be grateful you still have LOE who is on the ball. He probably saw something suspicious and was just doing a routine running of your plates.

LMFAO!!! you keep tellin yourself that buddy

**BATMANs** · 08-12-2009, 13:06

Perhaps the profiling wasn't negative

I.B.M
An Ideal Black Male. An I.B.M is a man who is very well established in his community and has a great job and fancy house and car. He is also very respectful and all around desireable to the American Black Female (also desireable to a lot of women from different backgrounds).

An I.B.M is a Black Male who works hard and is respectful and has all his priorities in the right place.

**rbilder** · 08-12-2009, 13:07

Originally Posted by 92NSX

I would like to know what makes you think that you couldn't afford an NSX? Have you seen some of the toys( cars, boats, homes) that LEO have?

True, I have several neighbors who are LEO's. They don't own NSX's, but I'm sure they could. The one next door has been think'n about a new Camaro, which would cost more than many of the NA1's.

Here LEO's can spike their retirement by working OT the last few years, to where their retirement is more than their wages were... and then go get another job and collect their retirement...

More power too them... most of them go out and risk their lives when they are out on the streets.

Crazy world.... there is barely a day that goes by without somebody getting shot or stabbed.

**Dhalsim** · 08-12-2009, 13:18

I'm not convinced it was racial profiling.

I'm actually glad he ran the plates. I hope my NSX is never stolen but if it is I hope every LEO that sees an NSX is running the plate....just in case.....

The LEO didn't detain you, didn't ask you anything nor say anythign to you. He simply ran the plates....saw that the car wasn't stolen and went on his way. As far as I'm concerned he did his job.

A couple questions regarding other points in this thread.

1. I dont think its a violation of your rights if you AGREE to let the LEO search your car. I'm not sure why some think that this is a violation of your rights. IF you have nothing to hide and IF you have done nothing wrong what is the argument for not allowing the LEO to search your vehicle?

2. nbuch001 - Regarding your comment about having an unloaded gun in plain sight is not a violation. That is interesting. What if you do have a loaded clip or ammo within reach? If the LEO sees the gun he is obviously goign to start asking questions and probably ask you to step out.....can he now legally search the car without your permission?

**pbassjo** · 08-12-2009, 14:43

I still don't understand how or why anyone knows the officer ran his plate. HOW DO YOU KNOW?

How about this? The officer went to the back of the car curious as to what it was, saw the emblem and thought, "Hmmm.. Acura?".

Then, he went back to his car, got a call, brought up some data that was sent regarding that call, quickly reviewed the location, information etc, and took off only to have the driver of the NSX yell some remark to him?

Maybe, just maybe you didn't read his mind right?

**Scruffy1** · 08-12-2009, 16:12

It's AMAZING how so many of you can read minds and body language. I spent 25 years working in the criminal justice system (and yes I can AFFORD an NSX) and I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what cops are thinking, and I've been trained in reading non-verbal actions aka kinesics. Absolutly every time this W/M has been pulled over I deserved to be pulled over. Did the "offending" officer know what my race was from behind me in a vehicle where there is limited sight through a very small rear window? Clearly not. Do some cops look for high-performance cars to stop? Sure they do. But consider what "pbassjo" wrote, that the officer was quite curious as to what kind of car it was. That's often the first question asked of me, cops or no cops, and running the registration is the easiest way to find that out.

Please understand that most non-trooper/HP officers detest making car stops for traffic violations. A GOOD cop is out there looking for real violations, i.e. felonies, not traffic offenses, although a traffic stop may be the first step in finding a criminal. A cop who does nothing but write traffic offenses is not highly regarded by his peers.

All of this takes me back to the Cambridge police officer and the professor. Here was an officer risking his life confronting a suspected felon and all he gets for it is an accusation that he's profiling.

Ignore the police, obey the law and you won't have a problem, profiled or not.

**Rated NSX** · 08-12-2009, 20:17

Originally Posted by nbuch001

Also a little side note on racial profiling. I am every bit against it as the next guy but I think about it this way. If I am in another country and there is a crime committed by a white Seventh Day Adventist (just raised that way) could I really blame the authorities for stopping me? Yeah I would be upset but look at it objectively. There is a small percentage of people that cause problems for the masses. It's terrible but if you walk, talk, "look" like a another person that has committed a crime it is human nature to wonder... It doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do and it should be changed but how is the real question. As always everybody has a solution or their own thoughts on profiling but a difinitive answer still has never been given.

Extremely easy answer that has been given: Profile on actions, not race. The Israelis do it with much success. There's never an excuse for racial profiling. BTW, although blacks and latinos commit a disproportionate share of **some** crime, most of these same crimes are committed by whites. We can try to rationalize racial profiling, just like some people try to rationalize racism and torture, but it doesn't make sense. Not to mention immoral.

**Cairo94507** · 08-13-2009, 06:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah, this whole "profiling" thing is a two way street too. I am white and at the time I was 40 and unknown to the two police who stopped me, a detective sergeant in a large police department. I was driving my sweet Acura Integra which was spotless and 100% legal. I was stopped by a local CHP cruiser with two black officers on board. I was doing nothing wrong while headed to work. I did not ID myself as a LEO and was polite and cooperative and gave them my CDL, reg. and proof of insurance. They seemed a little disturbed that I had all of that available without having to open any compartments in my car. I asked them why they had stopped me and one of them said I was not wearing my seatbelt. I still had it fastened while speaking with them. I pulled it away from my chest to show him and he said, you put it on while we were stopping you. I said I always wear my seatbelt and do not drive without it. He said it was his word against mine and he intended to cite me. I asked him if he was sure he wished to go down that path. At this point they both tell me to get out of the car. When I get out they see I am wearing a .45 with my badge clipped on next to it. The look on their faces was priceless. Then they saw I was a sergeant and they began to say you should have told us you were a cop, blah blah blah. I said why? I did nothing wrong and you made a mistake. I will accept an apology right now or we can ask your sergeant to roll over here so he and I can have a little talk. They fell all over each other saying they were sorry and they had made a mistake and they took off. Later that day I looked their sergeant up and we had a talk anyway about their attitudes. My point being cops come in all colors and we can all be "profiled".

**Arshad** · 08-13-2009, 08:07

Pfffft... you call that profiling? How about having to go to the airport at least 4-5 hours in advance of the flight because I am "randomly" pulled out for additional questioning EVERY SINGLE TIME. After having missed more than one flight because of this, I now just add the extra time as something that I need to account for when flying. I think someone forgot to send homeland security the memo that not all brown guys are terrorists!

Now I just carry with me all the paperwork I need to "prove" my innocence, ie criminal background check, fingerprint CPIC check, employer salary + duration referral letter, etc.

BTW, Taliban dude.. you need a bigger beard!

**BATMANs** · 08-13-2009, 08:16

Originally Posted by oscar_driver

I get stopped b/c I am young ... *cough *cough

or maybe

b/c

I am

a

TOTAL

TALIBAN???

Honestly, I get stopped on the NSX -sometimes- is been a while, when I drive my BORING accord no one cares ..... with the need BAD of $$$ even grandmas are getting stopped LOL

Oscar

Naw, u look more like someone from America's Hemmoroids that is pedaling street pharmaceticals....

**fourringpilot** · 08-15-2009, 19:40

I was pulled over by police twice today. I KNOW they ran my plate, because they told me they did. I have been pulled over three additional times in the past year even though I wasn't speeding. Is it because I'm white or is it because I wear nice suits? Maybe it's because I make double the $$$ an average household makes. Maybe it's because I date a tall white girl that shops at Banana Republic.

I'll tell you why I get pulled over - I'm a douchebag. IMO the op and half the posters on here are acting like douchebags and that is why the cops give them hell. The story in the op's post sounds like the cop was just trying to piss off the op because the op has a nice car that stand out in a crowd of mundane vehicles on the road. The cop is making $40,000 a year to put his life on the line. He was probably picked on in high school and now he is picking on people that he thinks are rich, snotty, douchebags. The comment in the opening post would confirm this.

Seriously, I can't stand how everytime a guy that isn't white gets picked on its because he's "not white." I have blonde hair, can't tan, listen to Michael Buble, and watch the History channel religously - yet I get pulled over more than any black, hispanic, or persian guy that I know.

**pbassjo** · 08-17-2009, 02:51

Originally Posted by fourringpilot

I'll tell you why I get pulled over - I'm a douchebag.

Oh, man that is so funny. Thank you.

**jond** · 08-17-2009, 04:05

I think a lot of people have pre-assumptions on how cops are going to treat them, and therefore act weird around cops which the cops pick up on. IE, if you keep checking out what the cop is doing, if you yell something at the cop, if you smile a bit too much, etc, etc. That's just my take, and I'm sure there are some exceptions.

**fourringpilot** · 08-17-2009, 15:13

Originally Posted by jond

I think a lot of people have pre-assumptions on how cops are going to treat them, and therefore act weird around cops which the cops pick up on. IE, if you keep checking out what the cop is doing, if you yell something at the cop, if you smile a bit too much, etc, etc. That's just my take, and I'm sure there are some exceptions.

Kind of like if you get nervous around a dog it will bite you?

**FrEsHaZzBuRu** · 08-18-2009, 19:15

This may be a little wandered off topic, but:

I was driving today and spotted 2 different LEOs driving in their patrol car while talking on a cellphone (no hands-free device - CA law for those who are unaware from other states). Shouldn't the law be enforced on those who do the enforcing also? I believe LEOs should be put under the microscope since they are the citizen role models for the public to follow! Sorry, I just hate finding bad examples of that profession.

To be on topic: I do agree with others in who stated it is somewhat profiling to assume an LEO as a profiler with no evidence.

OK, that is all, carry on.