Problem at startup!

Thanks in advance guys.

Started the car this AM and on cold startup it couldn't idle. It's rpms were cycling every couple seconds between 400 or so and 2500 or so.

There was no ratteling. No banging. The car ran perfectly to and from work yesterday without anything notable.

I shut it off after a few seconds.

Turned it back on. Same thing but with a flashing check engine light. I didn't have time to pull the code.

Would it be dumb to drive car to the dealer 45 minutes away? Does flashing CEL mean that I shouldn't turn the car back on?

I had to get to work so that was the end of that this AM.

What should I do? What do you think? Vaccuum lines? O2 Sensor? Would those give a flashing check engine?

Timing belt was replaced over the winter - probably 400 miles of the car running perfectly since then.

Thanks'

No problem driving with the CEL on. Just take it to autozone, pepboys or similar store to pull the error code. Im guessing 02 sensor.

BioBanker said:

Thanks in advance guys.

Started the car this AM and on cold startup it couldn't idle. It's rpms were cycling every couple seconds between 400 or so and 2500 or so.

There was no ratteling. No banging. The car ran perfectly to and from work yesterday without anything notable.

I shut it off after a few seconds.

Turned it back on. Same thing but with a flashing check engine light. I didn't have time to pull the code.

Would it be dumb to drive car to the dealer 45 minutes away? Does flashing CEL mean that I shouldn't turn the car back on?

I had to get to work so that was the end of that this AM.

What should I do? What do you think? Vaccuum lines? O2 Sensor? Would those give a flashing check engine?

Timing belt was replaced over the winter - probably 400 miles of the car running perfectly since then.

Thanks'

Click to expand...

Hi Dave!!,

OK, get the code. Since the car is SC'ed you do not want it running lean. I am wondering if your air bypass hose under the blower is having an issue. You want to check all vacuum lines etc. If you need to drive it, once we see the code does not indicate anything really bad, just go easy and stay off boost. I know it is hard to do.

Regards,
LarryB

Thanks guys - I will pull the code tonight and confirm that it isnt something nasty.

My uneducated guess is vacuum lines or o2 sensor. My car runs rich so o2 makes sense to me.

Once I can drive it to Rob (factorynsxtech), it will be his and my wallet's problem!

Here are the codes:

P1201
P1202
P1203
P1204
P1205
P1206
P0300
P1399

Looks like multiple misfiring, which is exactly what it seems to be doing.

Ideas?

Can I drive it to the dealer?

Cleared the codes and ITS FINE.

Idling like a champ, again.

Weird.

I wonder if you are starting to experience the same issue that Hrant and I have. We are both have CTSC's and we are getting the same intermittent misfire codes. Hrant starts going into detail in post #25....

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91157

My problem doesn't see to be resolved yet! We haven't done the vacuum issues that Larry is mentioning but it is definitely something to check for at this time. We were/still thinking perhaps it is the Comptech ACM. And in both Ryan's and my case the ACM has some mileage on it 40+K

So Dave, do you have an Autorotor CTSC too? If so, just out of curiosity, how old/many miles do you have with the Comptech ACM?

When I got home from work yesterday, I test started the car before I pulled the codes. It had the same junky idle, hunting between 400RPM and 2700ish, cycling every few seconds. Pulled codes. Cleared codes. Went into house and posted said codes. Walked back out, restarted to find the car perfectly fine.

It seems to me that the codes were likely confusing the computer somehow because once they were cleared the problem was gone.

And the car started perfectly this AM and drove to work perfectly.

Yes, I have one of the first Autorotors that came with the upgraded electronics (the last group buy). About 17k miles on the car since it was installed and it has been perfect since day one. Im not convinced that the CTSC has anything to do with my hopefully resolved issue.

Would the ACM do anything at start up RPM?

Are you guys getting those same codes?

Is the idle issue resolved when they're cleared?

Too many variables at issue but by process of elimination we think it is the ACM. Per the prior posts, I thought this was only a cold weather issue but now it might be both.

We still think the ACM does not like low voltage hence why we chased the battery issue. And since the same misfiring codes on all cylinders is occurring after new battery and fully charged, we think it might be the ACM going bad. It is my understanding that when the ACM "thinks" it is getting lower voltage (and it was the scenario iwith what we assumed a bad battery), it then allows the engine to run rich. Ryan opted to go with the AEM (and not sure if it has resolved it) whereas I am still futzing around perhaps by trying a new ACM.

If your situation is resolved by just resetting the codes (clock fuse), then that is great. But in our case, it re-occurred after a few days just after when we thought it was resolved!

I'm not SC just a lurker, but why do you guys futz around with the ACM when you can get a AEM or FIC (ODBII)? It seems to be a better solution all around, yes? Or does that route also involve it's own problems?

I can't speak for all, but I believe most have bought the Autorotor or the previous Whipple (not high boost) based on its simplicity and piggy back to the OEM system at a price point that made sense. The AEM with tuning is an additional $2600 and sadly this doesn't come with any additional ponies unless you are getting ready to pour more for 550 injectors, intercooler, etc. ........

Guys,

About 3 months ago I worked on a 1997 w/Autorotor. It had the exact same symptoms you describe, and....the car would have good days and bad, same as mentioned above. The owner changed just about everything related to the ignition system(including the ACM), still not luck. In a previous conversation with pbassjo, he commented to me, "you know that really sounds like a bad ground". Well after recieveing the car and going over everything, the ground wire located at the ignitor was loose because the thread on the blower housing was stripped. I heli-coiled it, tightened the offending connection, and the car ran perfect, and still does.

So, I would check every ground and especially the ground on the blower.

My $.02 (with the help of pbassjo)

Regards,
LarryB

Larry, I appreciate the feedback. Just out of curiosity yet again, is that something that comes loose over time due to the Autorotor set up/vibration who knows what ......... or it was just a fluke?

And of course for those of us still the non-techies, where would this be located so I can go look .... pretty please :wink:

Larry Bastanza said:

Guys,

About 3 months ago I worked on a 1997 w/Autorotor. It had the exact same symptoms you describe, and....the car would have good days and bad, same as mentioned above. The owner changed just about everything related to the ignition system(including the ACM), still not luck. In a previous conversation with pbassjo, he commented to me, "you know that really sounds like a bad ground". Well after recieveing the car and going over everything, the ground wire located at the ignitor was loose because the thread on the blower housing was stripped. I heli-coiled it, tightened the offending connection, and the car ran perfect, and still does.

So, I would check every ground and especially the ground on the blower.

My $.02 (with the help of pbassjo)

Regards,
LarryB

Click to expand...

Hi Larry,

Here's a pic of my engine bay. Do you think you can edit the pic and show us which ground you are talking about? Thanks in advance!!!

Its back!!!!

Junky idle right off of start up. Hunting. I hit the gas. RMP to ~4k for 5 seconds. Flashing CEL. Off gas. Car begins to idle properly and CEL goes out.

Yeah Larry, where do we find this thing you're talking about?

Hi Larry,

I received an email that said you replied to my post with an attachment, however, I don't see an attachment. Let me know if you want me to email you the pic of my engine bay so that you can edit it. Thanks!

BioBanker said:

Its back!!!!

Junky idle right off of start up. Hunting. I hit the gas. RMP to ~4k for 5 seconds. Flashing CEL. Off gas. Car begins to idle properly and CEL goes out.

Yeah Larry, where do we find this thing you're talking about?

Click to expand...

I told Shad that the switch to the AEM FIC didn't fix the problem so he is stumped as well. Shad told me that he had relocated the ground wire that Larry is suggesting to look at when he installed the AEM FIC. I have been told that a bad coolant temp sensor might be the problem so I bought one of those. My main relay also started acting up last weekend so I replaced that. However, the idle problem still exists.

BioBanker said:

Its back!!!!

Junky idle right off of start up. Hunting. I hit the gas. RMP to ~4k for 5 seconds. Flashing CEL. Off gas. Car begins to idle properly and CEL goes out.

Yeah Larry, where do we find this thing you're talking about?

Click to expand...

Just trying to establish some patterns in here. Your last post was on 4/16. So:

Was your NSX sitting in the garage all this time?
If so, was it on a battery tender?
If it wasn't sitting, how often or long of drives did you take; any FWY?
What type of a battery do you have?

I ask these because I suspect even when I "thought" my two new batteries were charged, it is my understanding that all batteries really need to be fully charged before use since when they come of the shelf they are not at full operational capacity, and a battery tender on a new Odyssey is not enough to get them to 14.5v for initial charge.

So perhaps cold weather with a sensitive ACM and perhaps a battery that is at 65% cranking power might be one explanation. But this doesn't resolve Ryan's issues.

Was your NSX sitting in the garage all this time? NO - DAILY DRIVEN
If so, was it on a battery tender? - NO - BATT SHOULD BE FINE - DAILY DRIVEN
If it wasn't sitting, how often or long of drives did you take; any FWY? DRIVEN TO AND FROM WORK EACH DAY - 3 MILES - 40 MINUTES IN DOWNTOWN TRAFFIC!!! But a mile or two on highway.
What type of a battery do you have? ODYSSEY, ONE OF THE SMALL ONES. IVE HAD MY BATTERY FOR MANY YEARS. MY PROBLEM IS NOT BATT CHARGE AS IVE HAD LOW CHARGE DOZENS OF TIMES, SOMETIMES NO CHARGE, AND THIS ISSUE HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

MINE COULD BE TEMPERATURE RELATED, BUT SEEMS VERY UNLIKELY TO BE CHARGE AND TEMPERATURE.

OK, let's push this by process of elimiantion.

Allow me to share all these frustrations/issues with you as I researched this battery issue.

How old is your Odyssey and I am assuming it is the 925 or 680? If the latter then this inquiry would be even more important.

Per Odyssey, the 3 mile drive even with 40 minutes traffic is not sufficient to charge the battery at full capacity if it has not been maintained or is running at say 75% capacity. It will crank but the low voltage will send the cell codes and this is particularly the case with 680 and 925 in cold weathers with a sensitive ACM.

That is why they recommend the 1400 for the NSX, or the 1200 with a battery tender. For NA vehicles, the 925 might work but they still recommend a battery tender. And the NSX is quite finicky with voltage issues. The alternator is not sufficient; it will do its job up to 13.5v (+/-) but Odyssey likes 14.5+

Try really deep cycling your Odyssey and see if that resolves it. It is a cheap option and might work. Then, use a battery tender with higher voltage.

I use the tender on the weekends - my NSX is my weekday car :tongue:

But Ive used the Odyssey (680) under the same parameters for a few years. It was replaced once because of a few dead cells, and Ive started it plenty of times in much colder weather than Ive had lately.

Ive also started it much at a much lower charge than it probably has now. I know that through the week its charge is falling a bit each day, but the starting issues didnt happen for the last few years.

Perhaps the ACM is degrading AND there are battery charge issues, but this hasnt happened before so there is a degrading variable aside from the battery (which has always been degrading!).

I will see if it recurs again, and if it does, I will put it on a tender each night and see if that gets rid of it.

As I said, don't waist your time with a battery tender it will not charge a degrading 680 battery ........... try deep cycling to get to the 14.5v thus eliminate getting back to the same battery issue the second time :wink:

Your dime, my $0.02.

Sorry I meant trickle charger.

The issue recurred this AM. Hunting idle, so I hit the gas to 3k for 5-10sec and it was okay when it returned to a cold idle and the CEL went out, again.

I will get the batt to 14.5v and see if it happens again.