Spacers: Disadvantages and Advantages ??

MvM · 15 November 2010

Many NSX owners are using spacers to improve the look of their car by using spacers to make the wheels appear flush with the body.
Also, many people are using spacers to make sure that their big brake kit will fit under the wheels or prevent the front wheels from (too much) rubbing when turning.

However, personally, I have always been a bit weary of spacers.
As I understood, spacers will increase the load on your wheel bearings and that simply cannot be a good thing.

But, I was thinking, apart from making a BBK possible, are there also any ADvantages to using spacers??

The one thing I can think of is the fact that spacers will increase the track width of the car and that might increase the stability of the car in turns.

Any good insights would be welcome...

davidf · 15 November 2010

I've personally never been a fan of spacers such as 25mm that bolt to the hub and have their own studs. Most are aluminum and I can't imagine putting all that load on a piece of alum. While it may be perfectly safe, it just give me the jitters. I would prefer steel anyday. Maybe someone can clear things up for me. I will admit I am a fan of pushing the wheels outward for the flush look.:wink:

angus · 15 November 2010

davidf said:
I've personally never been a fan of spacers such as 25mm that bolt to the hub and have their own studs. Most are aluminum and I can't imagine putting all that load on a piece of alum. While it may be perfectly safe, it just give me the jitters. I would prefer steel anyday. Maybe someone can clear things up for me. I will admit I am a fan of pushing the wheels outward for the flush look.:wink:

Did you know that the type of spacer you mention is OEM (installed by the factory) on some Porsches?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pors...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I guess you'd prefer your wheels be steel too?:wink:

davidf · 17 November 2010

I did not know.:redface: I learned something new today.:wink:

pgilliam1 · 17 November 2010

Disadvantage: If you have hubcentric wheels, you won't after you install spacers.

Advantage: You may be able to feel a difference in handling, but only at the edge of adhesion and only with the right suspension.

Happy Motoring!

Brylek · 17 November 2010

MvM said:
However, personally, I have always been a bit weary of spacers.
As I understood, spacers will increase the load on your wheel bearings and that simply cannot be a good thing.

You would be doing the same thing by using wheels with more aggressive offset

For example:

The front OEM 2002+ wheel has +55 offset, if you go with a 15mm spacer it would be equivalent to using an aftermarket wheel with +40 offset. Half of prime members are running aftermarket wheels with bigger offsets and i havent heard of anybody complaining about their bearings wearing out too fast.

The only part that worries me is having something bolted in between the rotor and the wheel.

Another important part is what pgilliam1 said, get hubcentric spacers. The wheel is mounted to the hub and bolts are only keeping it in place.

angus · 17 November 2010

pgilliam1 said:
Disadvantage: If you have hubcentric wheels, you won't after you install spacers.

Advantage: You may be able to feel a difference in handling, but only at the edge of adhesion and only with the right suspension.

Happy Motoring!

Most of the bolt on type spacers (like the ones in my link) are hubcentric if ordered correctly. I personally do not like the type of spacer that uses extended studs.

Hapa88 · 17 November 2010

Spacers (and wheel offset changes) will change the Scrub Radius.

http://www.miata.net/garage/offset.htm

Taken from: http://www.imazda.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509

Characteristics of Different Types of Scrub Radius
At zero scrub radius, the car steers easily and will have little or no kickback from bumps. At the same time there will be virtually no road feel or feedback and there will be a feeling of directional instability while cornering due to the tendency of the tires to squirm. This condition is also known as center-point steering.

A positive scrub radius will increase steering effort, torque steer and kickback on bumps to a considerable degree. At the same time, a blowout or a failure of one front brake could yank the wheel hard enough to pull it out of your hands. The advantage is that there is much greater road feel and feedback so that you can feel when the front tires start to break loose in a corner. Consequently, this is often the set-up of choice on race cars.

Negative scrub radius will also increase steering effort, torque steer and kickback but to a noticeably lesser degree than the positive kind. Additionally, front tire blowouts and single brake failures will act with less force on the steering wheel. Finally, there will be less road feel and feedback and less ability to feel when the front tires are about to break loose as compared with the positive state. In general, front-wheel drive cars are set-up with negative scrub radius.

Incidently, the term scrub radius derives from the fact that either in the positive or negative mode, the tire does not turn on its centerline (it scrubs the road in a turn) and due to the increased friction, more effort is needed to turn the wheel.

A significant reduction in positive offset of the wheels will EFFECTIVELY change the steering geometry's scrub radius, possibly increasing the steering effort and making the car harder to control during turning and cornering. As already stated, SAI is not adjustable on most cars so alignment changes may not be adequate to compensate for changes in scrub radius. That being said, I have no idea how much positive offset would have to be reduced for the change to be considered significant. It's just something to think about, particularly for those of you who consider your cars to be primarily daily drivers.

Also it affects suspension rates (http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/...re_look_scrub_radius_and_wheel_spacing.html):

Offset also affects suspension stiffness through the suspension's motion ratio. With less offset, the wheel's leverage about the inboard lower control arm pivot increases while the suspension spring leverage remains constant. The net effect is a reduction in the effective wheel spring rate. For example, a stock DC2 Integra fitted with wheels with 10mm less offset will have a 5 percent lower wheel rate. Therefore, to recover the lost suspension stiffness, a 5 percent stiffer spring is needed.

fkong777 · 22 November 2010

Those are not OEM porsche spacers. Older porsche like 911 turbo and 944 has a spacer in the rear but they only have 5 hole on them. They are use with a longer stud and hub centric.

spacers.. in the front, unless hub centric will introduce vibration.

back when I use to get spacers. Spacer maker "wheel-a-daptor" recommend you not use aluminum spacer for anything larger than 16x8. They will recommend you to use a steel spacer.

Also you have to carefully torque down your spacers. Tire Store techs will always overlook your spacers and use an impact wrench to it and destroy it.

BATMANs · 22 November 2010

Wheel spacers can cause accelerated wear on suspension and hub components because of the added stress that they place on parts that were designed to certain tolerances by the manufacturer. Because the wheels are further from the hub, more stress is placed on the wheel bearing, hubs and/or axles, potentially causing these parts to fail prematurely.

Depending on the size of the wheel spacers, the steering will potentially become heavier. The wider track means that more effort is needed to turn the wheels, which can make it more difficult to turn the steering wheel. Again, this is dependent on the width of the spacer. A small, ¼-inch width spacer will not have as much effect as a 1- or 2-inch spacer.

oscar_driver · 23 November 2010

2 years, 19K miles, 0 problems, 25mm solid as hell H&R's all around, they are hubcentric, with built studs, so no need to open your disks etc, no way IN HELL those things can go wrong.

You can actually go to Champion Porsche here in Florida and order NSX specific wheel adapters (spacers) ... they sell them @ the dealer.

And the car feels a bit wider, which I honestly don't mind @ all, and the looks, much better, on stock wheels!

goldNSX · 23 November 2010

Maarten,

I guess you're asking about your rear OZ wheels which are ET55 I believe. A spacer of 5 mm won't hurt much, 10 mm is the maximum I'd go. I was running ET 43/ET 38 mm in the front/rear and the car was stable but felt heavy to drive (fast). With the 02+ OEM wheels it's stable (enough) but much more responsive/easy to drive. For a car driven on the street ET 48/45 is enough IMO. Hapa88 explained why.

Blame Honda for having no aesthetic eye while constructing the NSX

but as the optic improves (wheels flush) the joy to drive it diminishes. Been there, done that. :wink:

Nero Tenebre · 25 November 2010

I must say I never had a problem with my 25mm spacers durability except when I didn't torque them down properly one time after test fitting different wheels. I personally feel that they are safe and plenty sturdy, and I was not worried about deforming them because they are aluminum either. The whole point is to achieve the SAME strength as a comparable steel spacer with the added advantage of less weight. I think the perception that "steel is stronger" is not founded, the only thing that matters is the compressive and tensile strength of the material --and I've never seen any actual numbers to provide comparable data. Both should be designed to the same load specifications.

I'll acknowledge the car does drive better without them because the contact patch is in the place it was designed to be and because any weight added to make the suspension work harder is noticeable to me. It's the age old battle, looks vs. performance! The difference in performance was not all that noticeable on the street except during parking maneuvers, so for me, the looks were easily worth it.

Doesn't matter anymore bc I finally decided on my new wheels :biggrin:

stuntman · 25 November 2010

Spacers are probably fine. I wouldn't be worried about increased wheelbearing load as the stock wheel bearings of the NSX are quite good and are holding up to 275/335 racing slicks and well over 1.6 G's of cornering on the FXMD NSX which has substantial aero loads which will put even more load on the wheel bearings.

For track and street use, wheel bearings are fine and are used in some forms of motorsport. The aluminum studded spacers are also probably fine, I haven't seen or heard of any failures of them. Just get a quality spacer and don't cheap out on a e-bay knock off.

Hubcentric rings are not necessary. The wheel is centered by the lug nuts if you snug them down one by one, then tighten them down from there one by one. Hubcentric rings are more of a convenience but do not hold any load -all of which/centering is done by the studs.

0.02

Ponyboy · 25 November 2010

FYI, the #84 LeMans winner used spacers. Looked to be about .75 to a full inch on at least the rear wheels. Have to check my NSX Fiesta pics for the fronts.

angus · 25 November 2010

fkong777 said:
Those are not OEM porsche spacers.

Well I guess you did not read the auction, "Porsche part number 000-044-500-10"

There are probably more than one type of OEM Porsche spacer...

I personally like the aluminum integrated stud type.

I do not buy the added wheel bearing load argument - while it may increase the force on the wheel bearing, as already stated - it's no different than using wider lower offset wheels.

Like I said, if you walk through the pits at any track, you'll be sure to see a ton of real race cars running spacers.

Spacers: Disadvantages and Advantages ??

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