Suspension

[j14nsx]

Detlef,

I see that you may have TEIN suspension on your car. What is that like for the road? I live in the UK and maybe you know how bad our roads are. I want something that will be good for the track but not too hard on the road, but I do not use my NSX much on the road anyway.

Kevin

[Procar Specials]

Hi Kevin,
the TEIN RE racing suspension with double adjustable damper is great, I tested on several highways (remember: in Germany the roads are also in poor condition)and on northern loop.
You can adjust damping force in 24 steps,
best for my way to drive is +10 front and
+12 rear. I use springs with 100 kg in front, rear 120 kg per 1 cm.

1 inch = 2,54 cm
1 lbs = 0,446 kg

If you dont wanna test a lot and wanna use a suspension system with all posibilities buy this system.
Mark Johnson from Dali Racing have them in stock, also an installation guide.
If you have more question, feel free and ask me. I have many experience with this stuff.

Tschüss
DeeWee

[andrea]

If you don't use Racing tyre the suspension could be good the Stock or Bilstein work very good.
You Don't need to have realy good suspension if after its the tyre that not response good.
Andrea

[Procar Specials]

Hallo Andrea,

as all things in the world, it gives different ways to get an result....I got a question how good are the TEIN's, and I answered with my impressions, I sampled on highways and also on northern loop.
( I ve over 1.000 laps experience there and
remember: All things, working on northern loop are working on street also, you will know that after your first rounds...)
I think that the TEIN RE suspension is the best system I ever had.
And I had alot...

If people believes that stock suspension or Bilstein dampers (heavy steel) are good enough for all times, they believes also that Tarox brakes are the best brakes...
Its allways a question of taste, but the Bilsteins with double nut are out in suspension technology since 10 years.
Now aluminium body is the new standard.
Its a question of unspringed weight.
But I sold a lot of them, maybe 50 kits, because other systems were'nt available in Germany and the market is very small.
And dont tell me that there is no difference driving 300 km/h on highway with OEM suepension, with Bilsteins or with the TEIN's.
And together with ultalight wheels, the differenceyou feel is giant.
My northern loop reference lap time with 2 persons on board and with overtaking 9 other cars is 8.01. I think this isnt a bad time for such and old NSX like mine.
My next intension is to come under 7.55,
its possible with less traffic.
Tschüss and much fun with the Bilsteins .-))

DeeWee

[No100]

Hi Detlef !

It seems, that you think you are the best NSX-driver and tuner ?

regards

No100

[Procar Specials]

Statement:
I dont think that Im the best NSX driver and tuner, you are wrong man !
I only write about my impressions and my taste, not more....if I write about a test drive, its also my impression.
I dont have intension, to provocate other people with this.

But I hate it, receiving a special question, answing to this person and a third person
knows everything better and tells about old stuff. If it isnt allowed speaking about other things some european guys installed in their cars, Im at the wrong place and I wanna
close that.
Sorry for loud thinking....
DeeWee

[j14nsx]

Detlef,

Thanks for your reply. Sorry, you seem to have people arguing with you.

You're right, I did just ask for your impression of the TEIN system, nothing else.

From what I know already, the standard spring rate is 170lb/in. The Eibach or H&R are 270lb/in. The Honda Type R is 448lb/in. The TEIN is, and what you have is, 574lb/in. I read people say the Type R springs were too hard on the road, and the TEIN is even harder!

Although I don't use the NSX much on the road, maybe only 5 times this year so far, the ride quality is not too important. What is important is if the car jumps when it hits a bump in a corner or spins off the road in the rain, I don't want it to be dangerous.

Thanks for your advice,

Kevin

[MvM]

Detlef,

Are you coming to Mas-du-Clos this weekend? It will be my first time at the track with my NSX and I would very much like to see all the mods on all the NSX'es.

[Procar Specials]

Hi Kevin,
you're right...
Remember, the NSX Type R weights over 150 kg less, that means that spring rate must'nt be so high. Also for information, spring rate allways depends directly from which kind of damper you are using. Only with racing springs you dont have a good suspension kit. Both of them must harmonize and the TEIN's does this perfectly. No seperate work with that stuff, and first impression on northern loop in relation with other suspensions I tested before: Nearly perfect for my taste.

But with so much topographical differences on the racetrack like there, you allways must live with compromises and the TEIN's will give you the feeling not making too much compromises. It rocks.

If you wanna have more informations about this stuff ?
email: www.daliracing.com

Best regards
DeeWee

[Procar Specials]

Originally posted by MvM:
Detlef,

Are you coming to Mas-du-Clos this weekend? It will be my first time at the track with my NSX and I would very much like to see all the mods on all the NSX'es.

Sorry, I cant be there, because this weekend I'm racing driver and team manager at the 6 hours race BF Goodrich long distance championsship Nürburgring GP Circuit and Northern loop.
But I think there are a lot of nice NSX'es
at Mas-Du-Clos, they dont need me too.
Best regards
Procar Specials
D.Welsch

[andrea]

Hey Detlef
I am sorry don't misunderstand me I don't want to argue about your choice I think its good one Tein Its realy good products. The only thing that I want to say that the original suspension are good enough if you use Road tire but what I said Its not the BIBLE. If you going like you always in Track I agree that you must to put on the car the best suspension but alway with good tire that supported the suspension.

I hope that you are not mad I realy don't want to argue with anybody.

Regards
Andrea

[rowr]

Detlef,

Another TEIN question for you, if I could, please...

Just installed a set last month and like them very much, but they do seem to be a little too stiff on some of the bumpier roads out here. The car seems to skip around a bit and gives the feeling of being unstable, even on the soft setting that Mark has suggested. I did lower the car by about an inch..in your experience, could this be part of the problem?

Thanks for your help and time..

Best regards from this side of the pond,
Charles

[Procar Specials]

Charles
lowering the car isnt the problem, because with the lower coilover you can define
car height without changing springs pressure as if you turn the upper coilover.

Important: If you installed the TEIN pillow upper mount, the serrate flange nut must be completely srew into the piston rod.
This TEIN pillow upper mount is the reason,
why the car feels + 30 % stiffer like OEM.
But you have an uncredible steering sensibility.
If you want I can email you an detailed installation and basic data guide for front and rearsuspension with all details about adjustment and measurements.

If you do this all and your feeling about
this wouldnt be better like before, we have to check your tyres.... type of tires, sizes, condition and air pressure. We will do this step by step by email, if you want.

If this all seams to be ok, and your car dont change your impression, you should use
other springs with less rates.

Detlef

[j14nsx]

Rowr, Detlef,

Could you include me in any private discussion about setting up the TEIN suspension? I have just ordered the TEIN RA kit from Mark, and would like any information on setting it up.

Thanks
Kevin

[rowr]

Detlef...

Thanks for the info...I'll try your suggestions after I get back home tonight..

Charles


Kevin...

Just running out of the house for work..will private you tonight..

Charles

[rowr]

Kevin....

Tried to e-mail tonight, but noticed there was no address...

I'm sure you'll like the suspension...it's a very high quality product..

Charles

[j14nsx]

rowr,

You can email at [email protected]

It will interesting to share setups and tips etc.

Kevin

[j14nsx]

For anyone that knows....

I have just got my TEIN RA kit now. Before I put it on, I would like to know if it possible to put them on and adjust the height so that the standard height is not dropped too far.

To explain more clearly. My car will hit the ground at the front if it is dropped by 25mm (going in my garage). The standard setting for the TEINs is to drop the car by 30mm at the front. Is it possible to adjust the TEINs so there is no drop? Or maybe just 10mm drop? I know they are adjustable of course, but there must be some limits to the settings.

[j14nsx]

Well the TEIN RA kit is on the car now. I have already done one track day with them.

They are excellent!!! I was worried about them being too hard, but they are not. It is like the NSX should always be. Steering is much faster, more precise.

It is a little bumpy, but gives the rally car feel. It is not unstable.

It shows that different people have different opinions on what is too hard or too soft. I'll just say I am happyI went for the TEINs.

I am using the alloy pillow mounts, and the ride height is quite high, almost standard.

Kevin

[ScienceofSpeed]

Detlef --

Just to offer some help, the TEIN's should only be kept in the upper 16 positions on the damper adjustment dial that modifies bump and rebound. When kept below the upper 16 positions, the orifice can be too large resulting in accelerated piston wear. It has this in the TEIN manual.

regards,
-- Chris

------------------
Revolutionize your NSX with ScienceofSpeed
www.ScienceofSpeed.com | [email protected] | 877-863-4520

[Procar Specials]

Chris,

thanks for your 'helping hand'.
You're surely right! But why TEIN's engineers concepted this setup with (I count 24 clicks) if the lower 8 positions will work with this situation? Why they dont space out this?
As I posted at 20 august, I prefer front +10 clicks, rear +12 clicks. So I'm in the 'upper' zone like you indicated.
I try to find out the best set up driving 15
rounds on northern loop, each lap under same conditions but with several setups.
For me that setup seems to be great and can be basic for all adjustment.
I wrote this also in my installation guide,
because the japanese TEIN guys ignored to write a basic setup and installation guide in english.
And we all are not good enough to decote hieroglyphs!
You agree ?

Detlef

[Andrie Hartanto]

Hi Detlef,

I suspect they uses the lower pertion of the adjustment if you opt to use softer spring rates.

Anyway, I've done 2 days testing with Tein RA, and I must say I'm a bit dissapointed with their spring rate. I really think the car has too much tendency to oversteer. I suspect this is because the Japanese are big on drifting.

I'm gonna try different spring rate to see how the car handles and get back to you on that. I hate to be called the drift guy in the track

[Procar Specials]

Hi Andrie,

I think that TEIN RE and TEIN RA dampers
are different too. Also it depends which
unspringed ground weight you have, surely which kind of sway bars are installed too.
I've 25 mm inside. Handling is like real race car, oversteering ? a little bit without TCS (its normal for mid engineed car), but good to handle until 2 % to the limit.
Do never touch that.
I have had idea to machined upper spring perches for ERS 60mm racing double spring system. So you can have each spring and helper spring rate for small money.
In Germany we have Eibach and H&R spring, where you can buy each lenght and rate....
So you will need some suspension engineers too.
Otherwise there are not enough NSX'ers
wanna have this stuff.
DeeWee

[Andrie Hartanto]

Hi Detlef,

I think the damper are different, but the spring rate are the same. I tried two different sway bars, and even go to the extreme by not having rear sway bars at all. I still have a bit too much oversteer. In order to dial the oversteer out, I had to resolve to 3 click from the stiffest up front, and 12 click from the stiffest in the rea. With stock front sway bars and no sway bars at all in the rear. Even then, I'm still off pace from my previous best by 2 seconds. I can assure you that I'm very consistent driver that I can turn back to back to back lap time that varies only by .2 sec.

Of course we never did use TCS. It is on the race track, no?

After getting pretty frustrated with my car, I drove a friend car with Comptech Koni (RACE) suspension. Man, what a night and day. Big difference in damper quality. On the Tein, I feel the car bounce one to many time, and the tires skips on bumpy surfaces. I heard rumor that these Koni are the similar technology shocks that they use for Indy and F1 (BAR) cars. I was skeptical, but this Koni dampers really blows me away. Not to mentioned they got the spring rate all dialed in. The car feels so much better and not as nervous as my car.

Here we have H&R and Eibach as well. They sell ERS 60mm rcaing springs as well, in all kind of length and rate. I'll check out the top perch this weekend to see if it easy to machine it. I have a friend who can machine just about anything. If this is the case, I'm giving them another try.

I'll keep you guys update on my findings

[j14nsx]

Great!!!

Now here's a discussion about the TEINs, AFTER I buy and fit them!!!

On the track I do find more oversteer than with the OEM. I did not play with the settings, I just had front and rear at full hardness.

There are lots of ways to reduce the oversteer. Tire pressures, ride height, alignment etc etc.

Andrie which of these would you change to try and reduce the oversteer? Apart from the TEINs my car is stock, with 15/16" wheels.

I await your test results with interest.

There are English installation instructions from www.tein.com. They are only basic install instructions, not how to balance the handling. I think there is more information in the Japanese manual, but I can't read it.

Detlef, we can compare this if you are going to Spa?

Kevin