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Snap ring transmission failures

Joined
13 December 2010
Messages
132
Location
Bagdad, Ky
For those of you with 91 or 92 cars that fall into the Snap Ring failure range---a word of caution. Because your car is 18 years old or has 100K+ miles on it, and the transmission still shifts fine, DON'T ASSUME that your transmission is probably OK. It isn't!!
It is just a matter of time~~~. Mine went out last week with 115K miles. There is NO known method of diagnosing the problem before it happens. The 1-2 or 2-1 shift will all of a sudden get sloppy and noisey. Your shifter may move forward or backward in 1 or 2nd gear but NOT necessarly. You might hear your second gear beginning to get a bit louder then normal before it goes out as the aluminum case wears in the vacinity of the bearing and changes the gear engagement just enough to get noisey. Once it goes out--stop driving the car or nurse it home if close by. Then be prepared for a $2,000. bill to have the transmission pulled, the upper case replaced with the bearing etc. then re-assembled and re-installed. If you are lucky, the mechanic will find all the pieces of the fractured snap ring---(mine was in 13 pieces). Make sure you have a very experienced NSX mechanic do the work as there are critical measurements required during the resassembly process. Now if you are expecting Honda-Acura to help out with the cost---good luck. Some dealer or regional manager might pick up a % of the parts or labor cost but the bottom line is the same. One of our expert board repair vendors will still probalby do it cheaper. There is a Acura Technical Bulletin from 93 that directs the dealers to replace the transmission under warranty etc. but after 19 years, the general consesious is that they will no longer provide much support to their NSX customers. You can buy a new or rebuilt 5 speed transmission or step up to a used or new 6 speed transmission which will require some custom wiring for the reverse lockout. Another option is while you have the transmission out and apart, you can opt for some shorty or lower gear ratio 1-2-3 gears for quicker acceleration on the low end--which will bump your costs a bit.
So, all you 91-92 NSX owners---do it now, or do it later---but don't assume you are safe like I did. If you are doing a clutch--have the snap ring job done at tthe same time and save a little $$$. My clutch was put in ---in Feb 2011! snap ring===last week. Arggg:cool:
Huck
 
Mine had 125K when I pulled the inspection hole plug and found that the snap ring had cracked(but hadn't failed yet). I bought a used transmission out of a 95 and had Shad at Driving Ambition swap it out(he even bought my old trans which lessened the blow financially). As a bonus I got a slightly shorter 2nd gear and torque reactive differential(changes for 95 and 96).
 
I agree if you have your tranny out then go ahead and do it.

but dont get scared and think I have to get mine done cuz my car is 19+ years old.

most cars that have passed 120K miles will probably never have this isssue. if you car was number X with the bit while cutting and the cutting bit fell out of spec after XX trannys during the cutting process you may never need to replace it.

my 92 is in snap ring range, but since it has over 130K mile I am sure it was one of the lucky ones. But if it does fail ( knock on wood ) I have a spare 6-speed sitting in my driveway so im good.

it is good advice to have it changed if your having work done to your tranny already, like the OP said short gears etc.etc while its out.

and I would never think that a Dealership would even give you anything off of the price to fix it after 19+ years.
 
Good advice Huck however car's like ours with Snap Ring's may not fail as Shawn has eluded to.

Mine shifts fine with no apparent signs or issues with albeit 40k miles...
 
Mine failed at 62,000 miles, only 900 miles after replacing the clutch. I had driven all the way to Carmel, CA from L.A. and just as I am pulling onto Carmel POP! Stick pulsating fore and aft and grinding noise. After towing it all the way back home I ended up buying a used transmission not in range and will probably have the original rebuilt with shorties. What a pain in the a$$ it was. Like the OP said should have just preventatively fixed it when I had the clutch replaced.
 
Good advice, mine failed at around 120,000 miles. Went ahead with the 4.23 gears along with the repair and loved the result.
 
Thanks for the heads up...

My 91 is within the range. I was told by the previous owner it was checked or fixed. But he didn't have a receipt for the work.

He worked at the Honda Dealership and had his work done there at his cost.

The clutch was replaced by him 37,800 miles in 2008.

Currently my car has 44,500 on it...

I more or less figured I would have it checked the next time I have some major work done on the car.

I'm not even sure there is a way they can check to see if the case is within tolerance. I do have the service bulletin, Acura didn't know anything about it and didn't see the service bulletin when they looked in their computer (or at least the one here locally).
 
Here's the thing--there is a "window" that someone in the know might be able to look into to see the snap ring but that doesn't tell you if the transmission case is good or bad. The snap ring can look good and brake 5 miles later. You can race drive the car and NOT cause the failure. I was driving 10 mph tops and just out of no where it popped. The snap ring is spring steel that is brittle. The improperly machined case allows excess pressure on the brittle snap ring which isn't designed to handle lateral pressure on it with uneven support. Replacing the snap ring in a bad case fixes nothing and you have to disassemble to do that!!!
I have heard from several others (Brian at SourceNSX, etc.) with relatively high miles (100K+) that have had recent failures that caught them off guard. Many of us are of the belief that if the car 60-70-100K miles on it with no failure that we probably have a good transmission case --that is why I didn't have the case replaced when I did my clutch in Feb. I'm no different--I will stick my head into a hole in the ground with the best of them!!
My second gear had a bit of a hum to it which in retrospect is probably one of the tell-tail signs. I asked LarryB about pre-failure identification and he replied that he would love to know how but hasen't been able to come up with a method. So believe what you want to believe but----if you have a car in range (most 91 and 92's are!?!)-and you have no supporting documentation that the upgrade has been done--you might want to get ahead of the curve. You could order the "snap ring fix kit" from Acura just to have it on hand so that when it comes to clutch time---you are prepared. I was lucky--no internal damage. I didn't want to change to shorty gears etc. so it was just inspect, reassemble and replace. I feel much better now when I take longer trips---. My complements to Brian, Kyle and Justin at SourceNSX for their knowledge and support--great guys.
Next will be that pesky ageing harmonic balancer and then I think most of the weak links are taken care of. Huck
 
HDA if this freaks you out then dont buy a 91-92, all other years dont have to worry about this problem.
get a 93+ and your good. heres a link you should read
then you will understand what the failure is all about

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Troubleshooting/transmission.htm

here is a quote from the FAQ
"Which Cars Are Affected?
The snap ring failure is limited to transmission numbers J4A4-1003542 through J4A4-1005978. These transmission numbers are limited to 1991 and 1992 model year vehicles. You cannot determine whether a car is in the range for possible failure by VIN number, you MUST check the TRANSMISSION NUMBER because the transmissions were not installed in sequential order by VIN number. See Locating Engine and Transmission Numbers for instructions on locating the transmission number.

It is important to note, however, that the problem does not exist on all transmissions in this range. The range simply identifies transmissions which may have the problem."


so you know that not all are effected, and the Lucky ones will not fail.
but since honda doenst know which of the trannys were the lucky ones
its a gamble. but like other and this FAQ states if after XX miles it probably was fixed when our cars were new from the dealer. or was cut with-in specs before the cutting bit failed.
 
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this snap ring is a nightmare! I am considering buying a NSX but gosh this freaks me out...

Just stick to a higher year than 92 unless you find one not in the snap ring range. When I bought mine I knew it was within range, thus taking the risk.
 
Thank you guys!i want to buy myself a present and i am debating between a nsx and a 930 Turbo...

Both cars have some "known issues", but at the same time are ones of the finest machines.

I already own a S2000 and a integra type r, so deeply in love with the vtec world...but the old, air coole, turbo porsche is just so tempting!
 
this snap ring is a nightmare! I am considering buying a NSX but gosh this freaks me out...

I personal don't think it is a big deal. It is cheaper than replacing a clutch and much less than some of the issues with the European cars.

The NA1 NSX's are 15 to 20 years old and you would expect to spend some money on maintenance regardless.
 
I have to agree I bet some people overlook pristine NSX's just because it is a snap ring car. My car is one of those examples...

Just budget for it and when it happens meh...no worries.:rolleyes:
 
I agree with the others that say just be mindful of the snap ring if in failure range, but no need to freak out. Use it to bargain for a slightly better price, or if it's fixed don't worry about it. My previous 92 was in range, snap ring broke on the previous owner, and it was replaced and had JDM short gears and NSX-R ring and pinion installed. My current 92 is also in snap ring failure range. This one hasn't let go yet (I have 48K miles on it), but I'm keeping an eye on it. If it breaks I'll take the opportunity to have the 6-Speed trans with a new clutch installed. If it doesn't let go I'll enjoy the 5-Speed as is.
 
Thank you guys!i want to buy myself a present and i am debating between a nsx and a 930 Turbo...

Both cars have some "known issues", but at the same time are ones of the finest machines.

I already own a S2000 and a integra type r, so deeply in love with the vtec world...but the old, air coole, turbo porsche is just so tempting!

If I were contemplating a 930 I would only buy the 89 because it has the 5 speed tranny - the only year. If you are in that range of affordability then an NA2 could be in your future then you get the bigger 3.2 engine/6 speed tranny and can also afford the 2002 - 2005 models which I would do if I had 50-60k. You will find that there is no comparison between the handling of the NA2 and the 89 and earlier 930s. Now if you are talking 993 turbo - well that is another thing entirely. But a 993 naturally aspirated car is faster than the 930.

Just something to think about - I had a 993 before I got my NSX. There are issues with the 993 that you will not have with the NSX. If I were choosing between the 930 and the NSX - it wouldn't be a hard choice! The NSX is just so much more modern. Drive one --check em out; you'll see.

Good luck in your search!
 
If I were contemplating a 930 I would only buy the 89 because it has the 5 speed tranny - the only year. If you are in that range of affordability then an NA2 could be in your future then you get the bigger 3.2 engine/6 speed tranny and can also afford the 2002 - 2005 models which I would do if I had 50-60k. You will find that there is no comparison between the handling of the NA2 and the 89 and earlier 930s. Now if you are talking 993 turbo - well that is another thing entirely. But a 993 naturally aspirated car is faster than the 930.

Just something to think about - I had a 993 before I got my NSX. There are issues with the 993 that you will not have with the NSX. If I were choosing between the 930 and the NSX - it wouldn't be a hard choice! The NSX is just so much more modern. Drive one --check em out; you'll see.

Good luck in your search!

I would be afraid to even imagine what the repair & maintenance cost of the 930 Turbo....
 
I have to agree I bet some people overlook pristine NSX's just because it is a snap ring car. My car is one of those examples...

Just budget for it and when it happens meh...no worries.:rolleyes:

I agree with the others that say just be mindful of the snap ring if in failure range, but no need to freak out. Use it to bargain for a slightly better price, or if it's fixed don't worry about it. My previous 92 was in range, snap ring broke on the previous owner, and it was replaced and had JDM short gears and NSX-R ring and pinion installed. My current 92 is also in snap ring failure range. This one hasn't let go yet (I have 48K miles on it), but I'm keeping an eye on it. If it breaks I'll take the opportunity to have the 6-Speed trans with a new clutch installed. If it doesn't let go I'll enjoy the 5-Speed as is.

+1 I agree... but that is more or less obvious, since I purchased one in the snap ring range. I was told it was checked/fixed, but I have no documentation on it (proof), and it has the case with the SN that matches the snap ring range. I figured the car was very nice, excellent condition, well maintained and what I saw as an excellent price for the condition. The only negative was it being in snap ring range. Which is hit or miss.

I normally don't take many long road trips, but I wouldn't be too concerned to take off on a cross country trip.

Maybe I'm kind of a risk taker. Even though I don't view the snap ring as a huge issue. The snap rings in all the NSX's are the same, it's that the one's in range, could possibly have too much play, where forces they weren't designed for causes them to break.

Since my clutch was replaced right before I purchased it, I don't see me replacing a clutch any time soon. But if the snap ring ever does cause me issues, it might be a good time to try a 6 spd.

I've budgeted, just in case... like JetPilot3 said, "no worries" be happy.

:smile:

It may have been more of a concern for me if it was my DD, but for me, it is more for nice weekend excursions. :biggrin:
 
So paranoia got the best of me after posting in this topic a few days ago. At 49K miles I finally had to check my snap ring because over the last couple of days after reading this I kept thinking something feels odd at times with my shifter. I think it was all in my mind though. Snap ring is still good at least for now. I think I'll make this snap ring inspection part of my oil change routine.
 
"Huck" couldn't be further from the correct assumption!!
As wisely explained to me after long reasearch by a very smart NSX tech here, (L.B) the problem was caused by sub standard cutting tools at Honda. When the normal amount of cuts were made and the tool was changed it was expected to cut a given number of cases before it wore. Not known to the Honda engineers the tool was softer than standards directed so the few cuts toward the end of the cutting run were not in tollerance and the groove was wider than normal before the tool was exchanged.
The first case cuts of the tool life WERE in tollerance and there's nothing wrong with them but no one knows just when the machine made compensations for the dull tool by serial number, and the groove opened up the tollerance that allows the snap ring to move in the groove and after time and usage can cause it to break.
MANY transmissions have a good life as a normal one but the serial numbers of them aren't known and that's why when these cars were new there was a recall for that reason.
These cars are twenty years old and Honda isn't going to perform a recall from then.
The parts for the fix aren't free but not so expensive that upon the next timing belt / or clutch change it might be smart to do the case update to be sure.
Update kits are avialable from S.o.S. amoung otherplaces.
The Acura M.M. is a great resource for info for s/n location and their s/b describes this problem and repair in length


Cheers
nigel
 
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Guess I was wrong--and no one should worry. I have this Murphy's Law issue and perhaps this will never impact anyone else on NSXPrime with high miles on a 91-92 NSX. However, Mayhem is my middle name!
So, as suggested above, have $$$$ available just in case--$2,000 to as much as $6500. or more depending on what you want to do transmission wise.
No one knows except probably Honda--what percentage of the 2400 cars identified as in-range have already failed, will probably fail and will probably not fail ---and Honda isn't saying.
If yours does go out on you, I hope you have a plan, phone numbers, names, etc. to arrange a fix.
It's kind of like the main relay issue---a know weak link that fails quite often and if you plan for it, can be easily solved --only with the snap ring issue---you can't carry the necessary parts, tools and knowledge to get running again. You will be dependent on others.
I was lucky--mine failed last month close to home. I have a flat bed trailer to haul. I have two excellent NSX repair shops within a couple of hours from my home with great mechanics who have done dozens of snap ring trany fixes.
I just suggest you have a plan just in case Murphy shows up or Mayhem taps on your window.
Huck
 
"Huck" couldn't be further from the correct assumption!!
As wisely explained to me after long reasearch by a very smart NSX tech here, (L.B) the problem was caused by sub standard cutting tools at Honda.

Well I cannot take full credit for this. Mark Basch originally informed me about this. I tried to develop a test for it using a dial indicator to measure the countershaft end play, but the result did not yield any valuable data.

Mine is a snap-ring car, so over the years I aquired a non snap-ring trans that is my back-up plan;).

Regards,
LarryB
 
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