Help - Tail lights cracking

I dropped my NSX off at a workshop for some boost issues and dyno tuning.

After I got the car home I noticed the taillights were cracked with what looked like small stress cracks in them. On closer inspection, the cracks seem to radiate from a small impact points. To me, it seems consistent with stone chipping. Similar to that which could be experienced on a car towed on a trailer backwards. The tail lights are now rough to feel with what could be described as pitting, however, there were no such signs of stone impact or pitting of the paint on the rear bumper bar...

I have pictures below...

I really would like know if anyone else has experienced this type of small cracking or crazing of their tail lights and how did it happen?

You see I really don't want to believe the only explanation that comes into my mind... Is that my original taillights have been swapped for these damaged ones...

If there is another plausible explanation I have overlooked PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post it! This has been eating away at me since Christmas...

Have you swapped the tail lights before? If not, check the back and see if it was tampered.....If it was then you know the lights were swapped...

Do you have any before pictures for comparison?

The scratches look pretty deep. You can use the headlight restore kit to get the light scratches off.

Bogie Bog said:

Have you swapped the tail lights before? If not, check the back and see if it was tampered.....If it was then you know the lights were swapped...

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I did check at the back and yes the nuts have been removed before.

influence82 said:

Do you have any before pictures for comparison?

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I have had my NSX for 7 years, I know every scratch and stone chip on it. I also washed and polished it the day before I dropped it off. My taillights were fine although the seals were leaking with some moisture getting in.

To answer your question, yes I do have before pictures but not close-ups like I have included above. I have taken close-up photos hoping that someone can come up with another explanation for the cracking observed!?

Addicted2Racing said:

The scratches look pretty deep. You can use the headlight restore kit to get the light scratches off.

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No they are cracked right through... They are a throw away now... I don't really care about the cost of replacing them it's more about me fishing for a plausible explanation on how they got cracked so I don't believe that a workshop or someone who works there would do such a thing???

It looks like you only posted pics of the left tail. How do the right tails look?

Does your tail lights still fog up if you were to wash your car?

I'm leaning towards they were swapped, however, if they were swapped I wonder how they were damanged in the first place.


EDIT:

Is it possible its due to the heat from your engine/exhaust while on the dyno?

Someone obviously hit the lens with something (looks like a weedwacker). I see marks even in the lens trim. Are both sides similiar? Don't be surprised by what people will do, that's naive.

Wow, I would definitely report this to the shop immediately.

Could they have taken the tail lights off for some reason for the work you were having done? I've never seen anything like this. Even if the car was towed backwards, that would have to be some brutal rocks to gouge like that and you'd probably have paint damage too. Seems like the took them off and tossed them around the garage.

Bright Light Tech said:

It looks like you only posted pics of the left tail. How do the right tails look?

Does your tail lights still fog up if you were to wash your car?

I'm leaning towards they were swapped, however, if they were swapped I wonder how they were damanged in the first place.


EDIT:

Is it possible its due to the heat from your engine/exhaust while on the dyno?

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Yes there is damage on the RHS as well but nowhere near as bad.

I have a centre exit exhaust so it cant be the heat from that. The cracks get worse towards the outer of the taillights...

So this is not a common problem then as no-one seems to have experienced something similar?

first off do you have children? kids will do things and not tell as they might get in trouble, but it looks like weed-wacker damage. ask the kids.

was you car parked outside while a lawn service was doing their biz?

also was your car parked somewhere and someone peeled out in their car and shot rocks or pebble twords your car.

or if they were swapped out by the shop then they must have placed them on the ground lens side down and spun in.

but if you blame the shop and this was months ago. its kinda to late now.
should have went to the shop right away.

if you find out what happend update this thread with the answer.

With the lens damage appearing to flow in a circular manner down toward the bumper I wonder how the damage occurred without also damaging the surounding body paint?

On this pic it looks like somebody wiped some dirt. COuld it possibly be from the removal of the tail lights?

shawn110975 said:

first off do you have children? kids will do things and not tell as they might get in trouble, but it looks like weed-wacker damage. ask the kids.

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Yes I remember being a kid! However my son is 16 yrs old and I couldn't get him near a weed-wacker for love or money! No I washed the car on Sunday afternoon and finished polishing it at night time and then dropped it off first thing the next morning. There was no chance for anyone to get near the car and I don't park it outside

shawn110975 said:

was you car parked outside while a lawn service was doing their biz?

also was your car parked somewhere and someone peeled out in their car and shot rocks or pebble twords your car.

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This has happened whilst it was in the possession of the workshop; there was no grass around and only a concrete parking area so I don’t see either as being possible in the area of the workshop.

shawn110975 said:

or if they were swapped out by the shop then they must have placed them on the ground lens side down and spun in.

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If this was the case then the lenses would have scratches in them. there are no scratches, just pitting and cracking, and the cracks are right through the lens!

I have thought that maybe someone using a cutter or stones flicked whist the car was getting dyno tuned, maybe the car was parked behind the dyno at some stage??? But in both these scenarios, why does the bumper bar have not a scratch or chip damage whilst the taillights have huge cracks and so much pitting damage?

shawn110975 said:

but if you blame the shop and this was months ago. its kinda to late now.
should have went to the shop right away.

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There is absolutely no doubt that this happened whilst the car was in the care of the workshop. Now, there were two other workshops that the car visited… There was a panel shop and the dyno tuning place. Now it could have happened at any stage as they had the car for a couple of months!

The thing is, I did not tell the shop owner immediately as the person I left it with there is a fellow NSX owner and I did not want to jeopardise his job by talking to his boss without first speaking to him, and yes it was months ago now...

Unfortunately when I did speak to him about it the response I got was "Oh yeah I noticed that and they were like that already…" I insisted that they weren’t and then he said he would ask around…

So after every workshop denied that they did it a few months had passed…

The thing that really gets to me is that I know that my tailights have been swapped with another NSX whose tailights were probably damaged by towing on a trailer some distance backwards.... The taillights to me are obvious! But what else has been swapped that is not so obvious???

Kitaka said:

With the lens damage appearing to flow in a circular manner down toward the bumper I wonder how the damage occurred without also damaging the surounding body paint?

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That is exactly the reason why I concluded that my taillights were swapped! How can you have so much damage to the taillights and not a mark on the bumber??!!

I did some weld grinding with a high speed hand held buffer/grinder that thru small bits of metal into my van. Those small bits of metal chipped paint, chipped plastic and made tiny melt marks in the glass. I wonder if at some point these tail lights were sitting on a bench when some grinding was done. I would pull the lenses off and see it the covered edge shows marks that you can't see installed. They I would make a very careful check of the rear bumper to see if it was repainted. It's possible that some damage might have been done and the shop had the rear bumper repainted. I'll bet that the other NSX owners car has perfect tail lights---like you used to have!

Those stress cracks look like uv damage that makes the lens brittle, I have seen NSX taillights do it before.

I think if they were not there before, someone swapped them.

great idea, take the lights off and see if there is any signs of internal damage, that if the lights were installed and never removed then they should be MINT inside, but if there is damage or any other signs that sugests they have been off the car NOW you have a legal reason to get a lawyer.

also look at the other owners lights are they mint on a not so mint NSX?

I really dont know what to say about this. Sucks.

and brings the question what other stuff was swapped?

have you looked at your engine to see if you have any NOT-so Mint items installed now. if they went so far as to swap the lights out, they had plenty of time to swap other items out. check to see if your radio is the original, ac control unit, does the airbag match the steering wheel color wise, do any leather part look different? or dont match perfectly, the caps to your fluids, do the engine glass, and or trunk stay up like normal or are they a little weak? are all the lug nuts the same? does you brake calipers look mint, check the wearable items, things that wear out or commonly damaged items, I wouldnt be surprised if more was swapped,

also have someone else look at the car to see if " out side the box " or a pair of " fresh eyes " can notice anything odd or non-mint items.

good luck keep us posted as this is an NSX Owner's Nightmare.......

I was the fellow NSX owner that did all the work on Au-Nsx's car.

The car was always keep inside the workshop at all times & was not left in the Car park with other customer's cars. I was the only person to work on the car.

The car did go to the Dyno at another workshop for 1 hour & was always in my control . The way the Car is strapped on the dyno & with extractor fans behind the car I don't think anything could bounce back.

The car also went to a Bodyshop for one day. As i didn't want to leave Mikes car with anyone (As i don't trust anyone even with my own NSX)
The workshop is 100metres down the street. It was dropped off in the Morning & i picked it up in the afternoon. I don't believe the Bodyworks would trailer the car anywhere or swap out the taillights as they said it was the first NSX they had seen let alone work on.

I can't believe the Taillights were swapped, with maybe 5 NSX's in the Queensland area. And with myself being a NSX owner I kind of feel like the finger is pointed at me! I have JDM tinted Taillights on my NSX. As Mike's NSX is a Gutted racecar and from what i understand mike does no maintenence himself suprised me with the statement " it looks like the nuts on the taillight have been loosened"??

I brought the accusation up with my Boss as he has insurance for accidental damage ect & obviously he was dumfounded given with the level of Extra care/service the car had gotten.
Unfortunately we cannot prove our innocence & the customer is always right.
My Boss did offer to replace the taillights on his insurance. But mike did not want to take it further. I must say I'm extremely upset by what has happened & do take it personally as I believe I'm a very Honest & trustworthy person as people who know me would confirm.

whrdnsx said:

I was the fellow NSX owner that did all the work on Au-Nsx's car..... And with myself being a NSX owner I kind of feel like the finger is pointed at me!

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Wayne,

I never mentioned anyone’s name nor have I made any accusations. I have simply stated facts. I don't know how taillights can get so cracked with what to me looks like impact damage without damage to the bumper as well. These are not scratches nor is it UV damage. Each crack is right through the outer lens and radiates from an impact mark and there are many more impact marks than there are cracks such that the lights are rough to run your hands over them.

I have never seen this before and I posted here to see if anyone else had experienced such a thing. No accusations!

whrdnsx said:

I can't believe the Taillights were swapped,...

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OK, that is fine; however you have not offered any plausible or even a non-plausible explanation as to how this could have happened. If you don't believe they were swapped, thinking forensically, how do you think this sort of damage could occur? That is the question I asked on this forum! Not "do I think whrdnsx swapped my taillights?!"

whrdnsx said:

... As Mike's NSX is a Gutted racecar and from what i understand mike does no maintenence himself suprised me with the statement " it looks like the nuts on the taillight have been loosened"??

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First of all I never said that. Read my post and you'll see that I actually said "I did check at the back and yes the nuts have been removed before."

The fact that I choose to have others maintain my car for me is inconsequential unless your insinuating that I'm stupid and don't know when a nut has been removed before? Quite simply there are circular marks on the paint inside where you can see where the nut used to be! Fractions of a millimetre difference, but marks just the same. Once again from a forensic point, you can see the nuts have been in a slightly different position before hence my conclusion " the nuts have been removed before"

Now, my car is a '91, it's 20years old this year and I have had it only for the last 7 years. The lights could have been off prior to me purchasing it. I never said it happened whilst in your care because I do not know that. What I do know is the lights were not damaged the day I dropped it off.

whrdnsx said:

... I brought the accusation up with my Boss as he has insurance for accidental damage ect & obviously he was dumfounded given with the level of Extra care/service the car had gotten.
Unfortunately we cannot prove our innocence & the customer is always right.

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I can provide testimony from at least at two (2) other workshops who would swear that the taillights were not like that when they worked on the car last and I know there are 10-20 guys in the S2000 club who could testify that my taillights were not damaged at either the last track day or drive day complete with photographic evidence.

whrdnsx said:

... My Boss did offer to replace the taillights on his insurance.

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Not to me he didn't. You did tell me "if I wanted to take it further then I would have to talk to Gavin Wood about it" I haven't talked to your boss at all about this as I did not want to jeopardise your job.

whrdnsx said:

... I must say I'm extremely upset by what has happened & do take it personally as I believe I'm a very Honest & trustworthy person as people who know me would confirm.

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Well how do you think I feel?

I never pointed any fingers, named any names, nor made any accusations.

The facts are that the car visited 3 different workshops over the 2-3 months after I dropped it off with your workshop. I picked it up some 2-3 weeks after you went overseas. All I know is that the taillights were not damaged when I dropped it off and they were when I picked it up. Yes I should have gone straight back to Gavin Wood's workshop and showed him but it was Christmas eve and they were now closed for two weeks. Secondly, I never wanted to jeopardise your job, so chose to wait another month till you got back to speak to you personally.

Unfortunately when you did return, your initial response of "yeah I noticed that... they were like that" was not satisfactory in my opinion and I asked you to further investigate.

I lieu of any explanation what-so-ever, I posted a question here to see if anyone else had experienced or witnessed any similar damage to that which I had photographed and described.

As the damaged lights are currently still on my car and no-one on this forum seems to have experienced anything similar, based on my and some other S2000 club members observations, I believe my taillights have been swapped. By whom I cannot say but I can say that it did happen whilst in the care of Gavin Wood Automotive.

Whatever has happened to my taillights I felt at the time it was not worth risking your livelihood, and then too late to pursue for any insurance.

hey guys keep it cool, you're both trustworthy chaps and I there'll be a logical and maybe quite unexpected explanation, no need for the heat.

For example, was the car parked near a grassy verge at any time? I once came back and found grass clippings plastered all over back of my car and a few stone chips in the bumper and even lower lens because a commercial lawn mower went by whilst I was (legally) angle parked. hummpph!

Ask if anyone pushed the car to move it up on the dyno or somewhere else, without starting it up. If they pushed on the lights instead of the bumper they could have cracked the lenses.

Worse case scenerio you can do what i did when my tail lights started to get cracked from UV rays.

Tint them!

Also, if they were swapped and you have ones that aren't leaking, then they are going to get mold in the trunk from wash water and rain getting in there.

U should consider "smoking" ur tail lights with the OEM silver u have on ur car.

It's where they dilute the paint so that (like my tail lights) they look painted over and when u use the lights they will shine right through.

I've seen this done on various cars.

Looks sick.

Also seen people do this with Carbon fiber where at an angle the panel looks painted, but dead on u can see the weave.