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Semi-DIY Mild Engine Build for FI

Without intercoolers on my arrangement, the targeted efficiencies, and my lack of experience with meth, I'm not exactly sure where I'll end up. I think the 200/482's would be the ticket as I certainly want to limit my boost to no more than 10psi on these just for my own reassurance.

I corrected my turbine size above but wanted to make it clear I have the 178's I would be happy to send logs to Aerocharger and see if we can get together on a conference call with them to discuss the two turbine choices. My feeling is the 178's will have no problem with 10 or even 12 PSI, I think the issue will be more to do with high RPM CFM's and this is where they will be able to help out. My sizing was simply their best guess based on displacement and estimated VE's as no one had used a large frame Aerocharger on a NSX when I did mine.

I am making 430whp at 8.4lbs peak and that is measured before the intercooler so there is likely a .4 to .5 pressure drop across my WTA core. I am adding yet another sensor to measure post cooler so I know the pressure drop, but this will require me to drill and tap the upper part of the intake and I have been too lazy to get it done. I am making this boost with the blue spring 2nd lightest they have for the controller, the next spring up (orange) made 10.2psi, and there is still 1 more spring heavier that ships with the controller. At the 10.2 level there was no sign of pressure drop at the higher RPMs and the controller had very good control as the boost peak was constant from 5-8K RPM.

I did not tune for peak power at the 10 PSI levels and my testing was early on in the process. I made the change to the lighter springs after the first full pull. I was only wanting to run 8 to 8.5lbs of boost and my whp goal was for 400. With fairly rich AFR and limited timing the 10PSI pull made 440 whp. So I decided to reduce boost and start the tuning process again. I ended up at the blue spring and 8.4PSI peak @430whp AFR's at 11.7 avg and IAT's of 110-117 degrees. Timing retard at these boost levels in the FIC is 6.5 degrees at 8PSI and 7 degrees at 9PSI.

From my last dealings with Meth, I think if I did nothing but add Meth at 50/50 and pulled my car it should make about 440-445whp, lean it out a bit and try for more timing as the Meth is increased and the car could make 450-460whp maybe more depending on the Meth mix. So with your engine build at 10PSI, Meth, and no intercooler restriction I think you will make more like 480-500whp. It will get harder to pull more out as the Aerochargers are still small compared to other turbo options, but with twins I think they move enough air to support 550-600whp. Just a guess and without more info from Aerocharger it will have to stay that way. My bottom end is stock and unless there is a major mechanical problem forcing a build I will stay at the 430whp level. I am thinking about adding Meth as another layer of protection in case I get the desire to track again, it will be cheap insurance.

Dave
 
Finally found a 3/4" female to 1/2" male impact adapter at Northern Tool this afternoon. Regardless of it's rating, I must have a crappy air compressor. I got home all excited and the darn bolt still didn't budge.

Went to Lowes... got a $22 6' long 1" diameter cast iron pipe, slipped it on the end of my 1/2" Craftsman breaker bar with a 1/2" drive 6pt 19mm impact socket (it doesn't need to be a deepwell), and a few loud pops later it was off! If you don't have 1/2" air lines and a real air compressor, just skip the impact gun approach. That's what I get for being lazy in the first place.

Next step was to get this bolted to my engine stand. Two people doing this would be a pain working around the hoist outrigger legs and the engine stand legs... one person doing this was dangerous and stupid. My wife wanted to take a picture of this "process" but I wouldn't let her :redface:

I bought four M12-1.25 fine pitch grade 8 bolts from Lowe's to bolt the stand to the block. 80mm long is perfect. Of course, all I could find without going to NAPA was (2) of those, and then I washered (2) of the 100mm long ones :rolleyes:

Oh well. It's on the stand. With this nice weather we're having (in the 60's :smile:) next thing is to put this stuff outside and degrease/steam it. It's not in that bad of condition right now though:

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Started removing stuff this evening after a little block cleaning:

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Make sure you have plenty of space. I'd like to think I'm somewhat organized, but only time will tell when I try to put it all back together. All this stuff and my engine bay still needs to be cleaned.

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I untorqued the valve and timing belt covers and let my oldest daughter go to work!

She declined gloves. I just told her to watch the cam gears as they're kinda sharp :wink:

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I think the NSX future is in good hands. We've got hugabuga's daughter rebuilding window regulators, Nick at ApplliedMotorsports daughter rebuilding transmissions, and mine getting into engines!
 
are you sure your not taking apart a new car... did you drive it?

and why are you stopping to further clean that thing..lol

lmao
 
3/4 impact is the only way...

NVM just saw your update, is the crank moving at all when you try to loosen the bolt? How long is your cheater bar?

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This long?
 
are you sure your not taking apart a new car... did you drive it?

and why are you stopping to further clean that thing..lol

lmao

I'm sure. It's taken me a bunch of hours cleaning this thing in the past few years. 20YO car with 126k miles... Daily driven through winter snow and ice in CT... Also saw redline couple of times every day :smile: She's been good to me, now time to fix her up!
 
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3/4 impact is the only way...

I agree! Unfortunately, I started with a crappy gun and (I thought) decent compressor, and then ended up with an awesome gun without a compressor to drive it.

That wasn't me in the picture above. I finally broke mine loose with two cheater bars (floor jack handle on my crank holder tool and a 6' cast iron cheater pipe on my breaker bar) on my engine dolly.
 
That engine is brand spanking new Dave! I have a 80 gallon ingersoll rand and a 1000 ftlb 1/2 ingersoll rand impact and it did get the bolt loose either... Dont feel bad Dave. :tongue:
 
I untorqued the valve and timing belt covers and let my oldest daughter go to work!

She declined gloves. I just told her to watch the cam gears as they're kinda sharp :wink:

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I think the NSX future is in good hands. We've got hugabuga's daughter rebuilding window regulators, Nick at ApplliedMotorsports daughter rebuilding transmissions, and mine getting into engines!

And my cousins daughter doing body work! :smile:




Thanks Dave for letting us follow your build!
 
Well, seems like Sunday evenings is going to be the only time I get to work on this thing....

Still following the service manual for disassembly. I left the cam gears on in the meantime, but will have to eventually take them off to replace the front seals. I heard you can just hold them in your hand and take an impact to them to loosen.

Also, before you loosen the cam holders, the SM says to loosen the valve adjust nuts and unscrew the tappets. My B16 build book didn't say anything about that, and the only person to talk about it on Prime was L8Apex32 in this thread:
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101306
You can't get to all the valve adjust nuts anyways without rotating the cams, and you CAN NOT do that without the TB on! So, I just loosened all I could and then untorqued/removed the cam holders in somewhat of a controlled pattern. Make sure you pay attention and don't lose the cylinder head orifice/o-ring mentioned in this thread:
http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155827


Anyways, here's a bunch of stuff I removed from the heads all neatly ordered and laid out. Almost gives the impression I know what I'm doing :biggrin:
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The camshaft journals look great, none of the LMA's are sticky:eek: (they'll be replaced with the updated style anyways), but I have a few slight wear marks on just one location on each camshaft as shown:
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All other areas are perfect. This isn't anything is it?



Also, I untorqued the (8) head bolts on one bank but cannot get the head off. I can wiggle it slightly except near cylinder #4. It's the one near a wedge area like the SM says, but I can't pry it up without digging into the aluminum. I've already boogered up a small section as shown in the picture below and am scared to do more damage. I think it is a doweled location.... I got tired of trying to lift the head straight up so I sprayed some PB Blaster in the area and am going to give up for tonight.
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Did I forget to undo anything? All of the head bolts are out. My B16 book says they should just lift right off. After all that careful head untorquing, I've probably got the head all screwed up trying to lift it off. Help please!

Thanks,
Dave
 
Nice to see you're doing some progress. I think the heads can get stuck and unless you have forgot a screw somewhere, it should come straight off but some violence may be needed but don't ever ever use a pry bar, you'll risk unrepairable damage!

When I lifted my head on my DD Fiat, the manual gave a useful tip, use a block of wood inserted in the exhaust ports and level it up. Popped right off with no damage.

I'm sure the experts can chime in here with tips.
 
Some tool tips for the cam gears:

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Use this for holding the cam gear still while applying force to the stud. No power tools needed. Good for both tightening and loosening the cam gears.

Alternative:

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Cut a piece of your old timing belt and use with this. Only for loosening! Works but the upper one is better (I have both)
 
Thanks. I tried the pry approach first since that was what was called for in the service manual at those two locations at the front of the heads. I certainly won't do that again for the front head :mad:

Ross had a good idea too and that was to tap a block of wood against the exhaust studs.

Tried it this morning and it still wouldn't go. So, switched to "tapping," er beating the tab (circled in red below) just above the pry point and it slowly started lifting off.
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I guess at this point, you have to keep it relative when talking about "persuasion." I'm a little 150lb dude, so my "beating" description may be nothing to someone else.

After it gets good and cleaned, I'll ask the machinist to do a dye penetrant test for any cracks on the heads and block anyways.


A few pictures. Looking at these pictures of old dirty engine components doesn't thrill a lot of folks I'm sure, unless it's your own :wink:

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Some tool tips for the cam gears:

19-1308_l.jpg


Use this for holding the cam gear still while applying force to the stud. No power tools needed. Good for both tightening and loosening the cam gears.

Thanks! I was thinking about making something similar to that since even if I could get the gear off with an impact, I'll still have to torque it. Didn't know they made those. I'll pick one up!

Dave
 
I love the progress!

What little there is :wink: You're too kind!

Maybe tomorrow I'll get the oil pan, pickup, pump, and windage tray off. The other head was a lot easier to remove. Pistons and cylinders look great.

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How do I take out the four head dowels? The SM doesn't say anything about that. Actually, one just wiggled out by hand. Do I just ask the machinist to remove? They look pretty specialized. Buy new OEM ones?

Thanks!
 
I don't know the answer to your question, but as a precaution, with multiple engine parts I always record where each one came from, so I can put them back exactly as they came out. So bag and label each as u take them out. And I reckon there's a chance they'll all come out using just fingers.

But I may be speaking through my a*** !!!

(actually, for the american audience, I think it's spelt a** biggrin:)
 
I can’t answer your question regarding the head dowels either, but it’s great to see what you’re doing!

While the cylinder heads are off, is there any chance you could measure the included angle between the intake and exhaust valves? It looks like it should be about 61° based on Honda’s drawings, but it would be nice to cross check that with a real measurement.

Also: could you measure your cam lobes along the two axes in the picture?

Honda lists the cam lobe heights on page 3-2 of the 1991 Service Manual, but not the diameter of their base circles. Next time I take my "high lift" camshafts out, I can then measure how much more lift they really give than the stock camshafts.
 
...with multiple engine parts I always record where each one came from, so I can put them back exactly as they came out. So bag and label each as u take them out....

Thanks Sparky. I had bought a bunch of bags in preparation for this project but haven't used very many. The reason is, as I take something apart, I just thread the bolts back in or put back together what I can. That and leave the component on my garage floor with the bolts in them.

I have to be Very Careful when in the garage. My wife and kids know if they accidentally kick something on the floor or trip over it, there's going to be a mess of parts/bolts and Dad's going to go crazy :biggrin:

After I get this off to the machine shop, then I can start cleaning all of these pieces. As they get cleaned, then I'll bag and label them.


While the cylinder heads are off, is there any chance you could measure the included angle between the intake and exhaust valves? It looks like it should be about 61° based on Honda’s drawings, but it would be nice to cross check that with a real measurement.

Also: could you measure your cam lobes along the two axes in the picture?

Honda lists the cam lobe heights on page 3-2 of the 1991 Service Manual, but not the diameter of their base circles. Next time I take my "high lift" camshafts out, I can then measure how much more lift they really give than the stock camshafts.

Sure, let me think how to do the angle part. I think I can hold two pieces of thick paper up to the valve faces and then trace it back onto another sheet of paper. Then measure the angle with a protractor. Is there a better way to do it? Sometimes I over-complicate it!
 
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