Timeserts for Headstuds

Mac Attack · 25 April 2012

Mac Attack said:
Nevermind, the cheapest I can find now is $410 for the kit.

At this point in my build and cash outlay, I'd rather not purchase a kit for my machinist to use one time. He wouldn't have use for it either so he doesn't want to make the investment....

Would anybody that had to purchase this kit consider renting it to me please? I have no problem with a rental fee and a refundable tool deposit once you get it back from me.

The only issue I see is how long it has already taken my machinist. However, I think he's about ready to fully devote time to my engine, so I would probably need it a total of three weeks.

Thanks in advance!

Dave

Hmm, after no interest, I just went ahead and ordered a kit and another package of 10 inserts.

Come to find out, my machinist was waiting on me to buy these before he did any other machining on the block.

Oh well, after I'm done, I may put it up on here for sale or for rent....

Dave

Mac Attack · 16 May 2012

This is interesting :frown:

My machinist is trying to use the #7111 kit on my block, and the alignment pin will not center in the head threads. There's a stepped lip apparently.

The Timesert technical help people think this block has been modified. All of my block head threads are like this. Whatever is down there, it's not magnetic. My machinist thinks it's aluminum.

I bought this car with 60k miles on it over 7 years ago. I've never had any reason to believe major engine work has ever been performed on it. I'm the third owner, the second owner (who had it for 8 years or so himself) would not have misled me, and he was a true car guy so this would not have slipped his mind had he known of it. When I took this engine apart, there was no indication the heads had ever been off before. It will be obvious now, since I boogered up some of the aluminum pry points where the SM says to separate them. There were no other marks on the block or heads, and everything inside looked old and original.

So, I'm confused. My machinist said the Timesert people wanted to talk with me about a potential fix they have for it. It involves some other tooling and I've been trying to get a hold of them.

Anyone ever run into this?

Thanks,

Dave

ScienceofSpeed · 16 May 2012

hi Dave --

The heads in the block from the factory are aluminum (no inserts). If your threads are aluminum, it definitely is factory. We do timeserts in our high HP forced induction builds, if you have any questions please let me know.

-- Chris

PATCHEZ · 17 May 2012

Hay mac attack. I have the head off a nsx right now doing inserts. There is a lip down just before the threads.

mac attack said:
this is interesting :frown:

My machinist is trying to use the #7111 kit on my block, and the alignment pin will not center in the head threads. There's a stepped lip apparently.

The timesert technical help people think this block has been modified. All of my block head threads are like this. Whatever is down there, it's not magnetic. My machinist thinks it's aluminum.

I bought this car with 60k miles on it over 7 years ago. I've never had any reason to believe major engine work has ever been performed on it. I'm the third owner, the second owner (who had it for 8 years or so himself) would not have misled me, and he was a true car guy so this would not have slipped his mind had he known of it. When i took this engine apart, there was no indication the heads had ever been off before. It will be obvious now, since i boogered up some of the aluminum pry points where the sm says to separate them. There were no other marks on the block or heads, and everything inside looked old and original.

So, i'm confused. My machinist said the timesert people wanted to talk with me about a potential fix they have for it. It involves some other tooling and i've been trying to get a hold of them.

Anyone ever run into this?

Thanks,

dave

Mac Attack · 17 May 2012

Thanks PATCHEZ.

Are you Timeserting it? If so, does your alignment pin go into the threads, or sit above the threads and wobble around a bit?

I think I'm going to borrow a boroscope from work tomorrow and look what I have.

Dave

PATCHEZ · 17 May 2012

Yes its timeserts. Im not as Im not the one who will be installing them. I think the tech will be doing it in the next couple days. So I can ask then.

Mac Attack · 19 May 2012

PATCHEZ:

The alignment pin that came with my kit is marked M11, J-42385-303.

The alignment pin OD is 0.53". The hole into the block going down to the threads is ~0.65" from what I recall (block is at the machinist).

Timesert said that this pin was not supposed to insert and center into the head bolt threads, but instead fit and center on the big hole on the block. Obviously, that's not possible, and why Timesert said my block must have been modified at some point. My engine has never been apart though.

The alignment pin has a tapered end on it, but even the tip of the taper is too large to fit into the threads and center. It's pretty obvious the kit that came with Timesert #7111 DOES NOT center the drill bushing and therefore, drill fixture. We didn't want to take a chance messing up this block just forging ahead....

So, I need to modify this alignment pin or make a new one. I think I'm going to make a new one, but slightly longer, and have a longer taper to it that will center into the block threads.

This whole Timesert thing is the reason my block machining has been delayed ~6 weeks

Mac Attack · 21 May 2012

Well, a buddy is machining a new alignment pin for me. We decided it will not have a tapered end, but will be machined to insert snugly into the old block threads about half an inch.

It's easier to make that way. Also, unless you have a real gradual taper to the pin, there's a chance the top thread could skew the alignment pin.

When it's all done, I'll post pictures.

Very surprised no one else has run into this issue....

Dave

Mac Attack · 22 May 2012

:smile: My friend went ahead and made a new alignment pin with a taper for me last night. It even fits slightly snugger inside the drill bushing than the Timesert alignment pin. If someone else needs to make one, ideally this would be steel and at least a half inch longer, but this should work.

We'll try it in a few days.

Mac Attack · 23 May 2012

New alignment pin works perfect! It centers the drill bushing and plate whereas the supplied pin was way off visibly.

I'd like to have my ARP studs sticking straight out of the time-serted block, thank you.

mr_goat · 24 May 2012

Mac Attack said:
New alignment pin works perfect! It centers the drill bushing and plate whereas the supplied pin was way off visibly.

I'd like to have my ARP studs sticking straight out of the time-serted block, thank you.

Make this a product maybe? I'm sure there are lots of people wanting to do timeserts. SOS do them for all "high hp builds". BTW what have they been using one might ask?

Mac Attack · 24 May 2012

mr_goat said:
BTW what have they been using one might ask?

That's what I've been wondering.

Is this drill plate a necessity? Maybe not to an expert machinist that's comfortable after doing a bunch of these, but to me, I'd rather have some guidance before accidentally drilling through this soft aluminum incorrectly.

The studs will take some misalignment, but I'd rather have them all straight so my torquing force is applied straight down.

CB169 · 23 December 2012

looking for time sert kit

Any one has a timesert kit that they wanna sell or rent for a 97 block?

Mac Attack · 4 July 2015

Sorry I didn't see this bump until now... Probably a little too late to help you out CB169.

I put up an ad in the "for sale" section to rent mine out if anyone is interested.

Dave

Timeserts for Headstuds

Similar threads