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Anyone considering a Subaru BRZ or Scion FRS?

The BRZ Reviews Start to Roll In...

http://www.insideline.com/subaru/brz/2013/2013-subaru-brz-full-test-and-video.html

It is the rear-drive BRZ's competence in those pivotal split seconds as the limit of grip approaches and departs that gives it undeniably enticing character. Few cars in recent memory do it so well and those that do typically cost at least twice as much. Think Lotus Exige/Elise or Porsche 911 GT3. In other words, the BRZ offers a level of engagement that, until now, has been either too costly or too impractical for the average enthusiast.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1203_2013_subaru_brz/index.html

In all, the BRZ offers a world of usable, accessible performance with a straightforward purity that’s rare today. And the car itself should be accessible to a broad swath of enthusiast drivers; Subaru hasn’t yet announced pricing, but we expect the base version to come in around $25,000. For about $2000 more, the Limited model adds leather-and-Alcantara upholstery, keyless ignition, heated seats, and a few lesser items. For either version, the only option is a six-speed automatic transmission with shift paddles.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/drives/driven-2013-subaru-brz

Every so often in this business you get the chance to drive a new car that will make a big impression, and I’ve just spent the better part of a day in one: the new 2013 Subaru BRZ, an affordable rear-drive sports coupe that proved to be a tossable delight on the epic switchbacks and esses of the Route Napoleon in southern France. Frankly, I haven’t had this much driving fun in a long time, the BRZ proving with each trip up to its 7400-rpm redline that 200 bhp is plenty of power when the chassis is light, rigid and eager to turn.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/23/...60-in-7-3-seconds-1-4-mile-in-15-3/#continued

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1203_2013_subaru_brz_limited_first_test/

And the BRZ is undeniably superb. For the money, its grin-getting straight-line quickness, 22/30 mpg city/highway fuel economy (25/34 with the six-speed automatic), seemingly extrasensory chassis response, seven-airbag passive safety suite, and straightforward, aesthetically pleasing cabin -- offering nearly as much front headroom as the 4.4-inch-taller Honda Civic Si and enough cargo room with the rear seats folded to swallow a toolbox, a helmet, and a full set of wheels/tires -- make Subaru's most creative creation a force to be reckoned with.
 
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after seeing the reviews i'd rather get a Miata. eventhough its the last of the current miata, it still outperforms the toyubaru for less money. the next miata should be far better with a target weight of 2200lbs...
 
Miata is a totally different car for a totally different market. I already have a two-seater sports car. I'm getting the BRZ as a daily driver that has room for 2 adults plus storage, plus two small people and is fun to drive. Essentially, this will replace my 2008 Accord Coupe - v6.

There's just not many options in this category...

They don't make the Integra Type R any more. Honda/Acura has nothing that appeals at all - shame on them!
MINI Cooper S or JCW - I considered this. Fun to drive - but still FWD.
BMW 128i - perhaps the closest serious option here.
Mustang or Camaro - 2 tons of car (Boss 302 looks cool)
Cadillac CTS - very nice actually.
Golf, GTI, - FWD
370Z - Audi TT - Miata - Nice but 2 seater
Infiniti G Coupe or IPL G - Nice but $10K or $22K more than the BRZ.

-Jim
 
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Miata is a totally different car for a totally different market. I already have a two-seater sports car. I'm getting the BRZ as a daily driver that has room for 2 adults plus storage, plus two small people and is fun to drive. Essentially, this will replace my 2008 Accord Coupe - v6.

i wouldn't say totally different. the BRZ is only a little bigger than the Miata. i can't imagine the rear seats being too functional... but that is to be seen.
 
i wouldn't say totally different. the BRZ is only a little bigger than the Miata. i can't imagine the rear seats being too functional... but that is to be seen.

Well, 4 seats vs 2 seats. In a pinch, I could squeeze 2 more smallish adults for short trips if needed, or use the back seats for more storage or fold down the seats for a lot of storage. Or my wife and I can take the young-ins.

Put it this way, in the BRZ dealer marketing literature the Miata was never mentioned as a comparative cross-shopped car.

I like the Miata, it's a fun car to drive. It's just in a different category.

Also, I really don't see the Miata outperforming the BRZ by any significant measure. All the specs I've read are very close. Here's what Motor Trend said about the BRZ vs the Miata...

At 2747 pounds, the BRZ is 160 pounds heavier than the 2012 Mazda MX-5 Miata Special Edition hardtop, but offsets the added weight with an extra 33 hp. In other words, the Subaru's weight-to-power ratio of 13.7 pounds per pony betters the Mazda's 15.5. Unsurprisingly, the BRZ, which measures 9.4 inches longer and around 2 inches wider and taller than the Miata, proved a hair quicker, scooting from 0 to 60 in 6.4 seconds (versus the Miata's 6.5) and through the quarter mile in 14.9 at 95.5 mph (versus 15.0 at 90.2). Better still, the BRZ treats the driver to all the MX-5's chassis greatness -- the direct, linear steering; the composed, taut ride with a touch of softness; the firm, reassuring brakes; the initial understeer that transitions gently and predictably to controllable oversteer -- but adds a quiver-free fixed-roof body that communicates chassis behavior with even more precision.

-Jim
 
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if they mentioned the cheaper, better performing, miata... it would be bad for them. i would seriously take a closer look before buying... a larger car such as the Hyundai Genesis Coupe/ Mustang V6 might suite you better for the money. not 2 ton cars, both are around 3400lbs. if the BRZ is what you like, then by all means. i am disappointed in it.
 
I may buy a used one when they are in the teens. Can't justify 25k for that when I can buy a 07/08 240hp s2000 for ~18k with <40k miles.

I am a little surprised by the mpg figures of 34 hwy for the auto and 30mpg for the manual. I understand the gearing on the auto will be a bit different but that's over a 10% difference. For a 200hp 6spd manual, there is no reason (IMO) not to have a tall 6th gear for highway fuel economy. More often than not, people buying 25k sports cars, often as daily drivers, must care about fuel economy.
 
Well, 4 seats vs 2 seats. In a pinch, I could squeeze 2 more smallish adults for short trips if needed, or use the back seats for more storage or fold down the seats for a lot of storage. Or my wife and I can take the young-ins.

P

-Jim

I have sat in this car at the Geneva Motorshow..the rear seats are no better than the Audi TT coupe...i.e if you are taller than 5ft 10'...you can fit kids in the back with stick thin legs.

Adults..forget it..there isn't much headroom...FYI

SS
 
The FT86 was conceptualized to be a modern day successor to the AE86, which was a 5 seater hatchback/coupe econobox.. if you guys can remember that far. I think it's great that folks who are in the market for a 2 seater sports car (i.e. Miata or S2000) would even bring up the Toyobaru in the same conversation. That's says a lot about the FT86. To me the comparison should be the old BMW E30, or E30 M3, AE86, and possibly the S13.

I owned a AP1 S2000. I want the BRZ because in many ways it's everything the S2k isn't. I have the NSX to fill the rest.

Btw... Subaru confirmed a turbo model is to come. Date is still TBD.

Also, don't be surprised how good the automatic is on this car. It's a standard torque converter type automatic which means it's bullet proof but they also incorporated a decently quick paddle shift system which has gotten pretty good reviews.
 
They had a BRZ at the auto show in Richmond this weekend.
Very cool car. It reminds me of my old Type-R.
Nice interior, the seats hug you, the layout seems just right.
The engine sits really low in the bay.
I didn't really see too much wrong with it. Looks like a solid fun car.
I might consider one when the STi version comes out.
 
I have sat in this car at the Geneva Motorshow..the rear seats are no better than the Audi TT coupe...i.e if you are taller than 5ft 10'...you can fit kids in the back with stick thin legs.

Adults..forget it..there isn't much headroom...FYI

SS

exactly my concern, mind you midgits without legs could fit.
 
exactly my concern, mind you midgits without legs could fit.

Which is more than the Miata can hold. :wink:

I realize the rear seats aren't going to be practical for every day adult use. If I needed that I would get a 4 door larger vehicle. I don't want that. Occasional use by kids is probably the only usage it will see for me. Probably I'll have the rear seats folded down the majority of the time. See pic.

-Jim
 

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^^^ why so much hate on the this car? did someone offend you somehow?

why so much love? this car is more expensive and worse performing than all the options i provided... granted the Miata has no back seats, but those seats in the toyubaru are hardly functional. lets drop the miata and you still have the other two options i presented which are better suited to the needs outlined by jimbo. you have every right to like whatever you want, but don't attack me for using logic.
 
why so much love? this car is more expensive and worse performing than all the options i provided... granted the Miata has no back seats, but those seats in the toyubaru are hardly functional. lets drop the miata and you still have the other two options i presented which are better suited to the needs outlined by jimbo. you have every right to like whatever you want, but don't attack me for using logic.
I deleted my post because it wasn't worth it but now that it's back up then i'll argue your logic is flawed but.. then again... i'm simply too lazy.
 
why so much love? this car is more expensive and worse performing than all the options i provided... granted the Miata has no back seats, but those seats in the toyubaru are hardly functional. lets drop the miata and you still have the other two options i presented which are better suited to the needs outlined by jimbo. you have every right to like whatever you want, but don't attack me for using logic.

I don't like the Hyundai's driving dynamics. It just doesn't feel connected to the road. The Mustang...well the solid rear axle doesn't thrill me and I'm not looking for the "retro" experience. And here's what Inside Line had to say..

...But you're not John Force, are you? Neither are we, which is why we realize that the BRZ's respectable 69.1-mph slalom speed and striking 0.92g on the skid pad are more definitive of its character than is its acceleration. Those numbers are better than both the 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe (67.4 mph slalom, 0.89g skid pad) and the 2011 Ford Mustang GT (67.3 mph slalom, 0.91g skid pad)....

And you really haven't provided any solid evidence that the Miata outperforms the Toybaru cars.

Based on the initial road test comments that I listed, I think I've made the right choice for me. Time will tell. The fact that InsideLine mentioned the Lotus Exige/Elise in the road test is very promising because I really loved the dynamics of my Elise. I suspect the BRZ will be much more livable than my Elise was as well.

So, I think we all have gotten that you're not a fan of new Toybaru. Fine. But I suspect you're in the minority when it comes to automotive media.

-Jim
 
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why would i need to provide evidence to back up my claims for the miata? if you don't believe me, i don't care... you don't want a 2 seat roadster, so that information has no relevence other than to prove you wrong, which would educate you and make you a better person. i would rather leave you in the dark and leave you to your ignorance.

fyi, i do not hate the toyubaru. my only problem is the questionable reliability due to my experience with direct injection, subaru's, boxer engines, and whatever else i learned in my 15 years in the automotive industry... and the price. otherwise, it seems to be fine and my anger is because the car is good for the industry and they screwed up pricing it the way it is. most potential customers have already gone elsewhere...

my opinions on this matter are no different from many in the automotive media and i know this because i have spoken to them in person about it. as much as i would like to leave out the details on better options, i have more integrity than that.
 
why would i need to provide evidence to back up my claims for the miata? if you don't believe me, i don't care... you don't want a 2 seat roadster, so that information has no relevence other than to prove you wrong, which would educate you and make you a better person. i would rather leave you in the dark and leave you to your ignorance.

fyi, i do not hate the toyubaru. my only problem is the questionable reliability due to my experience with direct injection, subaru's, boxer engines, and whatever else i learned in my 15 years in the automotive industry... and the price. otherwise, it seems to be fine and my anger is because the car is good for the industry and they screwed up pricing it the way it is. most potential customers have already gone elsewhere...

my opinions on this matter are no different from many in the automotive media and i know this because i have spoken to them in person about it. as much as i would like to leave out the details on better options, i have more integrity than that.

Jeeze, what's with the attitude and anger and calling me ignorant, huh? Is this what's known as "integrity"? :confused: I didn't write anything to warrant this.

I just couldn't find any info online to show that the Miata significantly outperformed the Toybarus. The two cars seem pretty closely matched.

-Jim
 
IMO Subaru and scion are for kids. Well around here Subaru is more for girls who like girls, especially the wagons, but whatever that's their business. The msrp of either car puts them into the hands of 20 somethings who will pimp their rides until it makes an older person want to puke. Because these cars are bought by the younger crowd Subaru puts crappy 2.0l power plants in them. Stick a 5.0l in their and I might lift an eyebrow. I dont care what the marketing research says the bulk of these cars will be purchased by young people who will pimp them. Put a massive motor in them. If they priced them like a GTR, no pimp. Also no sell either because they will then appeal to a small group of people, mostly old guys trying to impress young people. The Nissan dealer here still has their GTR sitting unsold for quite some time now. Like someone above said about the ford gt priced so high they'd just buy the Ferrari, well for the price of a GTR you could get a really nice Benz or Bimmer.
 
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Autoweek's Review of the BRZ...

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120323/CARREVIEWS/120329931

In a word: sensational. A few years ago, the Hyundai Genesis coupe seemed as it could mark the return of the affordable and agile rear-wheel-drive sports car. However, it came in too heavy and not refined enough. The BRZ packs everything you look for in a sports car, including a tight and responsive chassis, a comfortable driving position and sporty looks. It is a riot to pilot. We spent a day hammering the BRZ on the twisty roads through the Alps in southern France...

...If you've been waiting for an affordable rear-drive sports car then yes, you do--badly. In short, the Subaru BRZ marks the return of what you crave. The philosophy Subaru followed while developing this car should be music to a car enthusiast's ears, with light weight, a low center of gravity and rear-wheel drive being the pillars.

-Jim
 
I'm a bit weary of all the press coverage myself. They're so hungry for anything exciting these days that I feel every writer is jumping on the bandwagon and fears saying anything wrong about the car. Yet another reason why i'm waiting at least a few months and will make a decision on my own. For now it's certainly on the radar.

It's also pretty obvious this car will be slow. It may have fantastic handling dynamics and be super fun but it will be slow. Notice there's no published Nurburgring time anywhere. I guess all in all it'll make for a fun daily driver --this part is almost certain.
 
I'm a bit weary of all the press coverage myself. They're so hungry for anything exciting these days that I feel every writer is jumping on the bandwagon and fears saying anything wrong about the car. Yet another reason why i'm waiting at least a few months and will make a decision on my own. For now it's certainly on the radar.

It's also pretty obvious this car will be slow. It may have fantastic handling dynamics and be super fun but it will be slow. Notice there's no published Nurburgring time anywhere. I guess all in all it'll make for a fun daily driver --this part is almost certain.

Nurburgring time? Let's keep this all in perspective. It's not a new R8 or a Ferrari we're talking about. By all accounts it's a great handling 200hp, 4 cylinder, 2+2 for well under $30K. In some ways, it's like a rear wheel drive Civic Si. Which, by the way would have caught my interest more than the current Honda offerings. No one ever cares what a Civic Si or a MINI Cooper S does on the Nurburgring.

For me this is a daily driver that hopefully will be a fun drive, get good mileage (now that gas is going to go up a lot)** and be reliable. It's not replacing my NSX and I certainly don't have delusions of grandeur about the car. It is what it is.

Perhaps these cars will wake up Honda and get them off their butts to create a car for enthusiasts once more. Something like a new RWD Prelude Si might be nice. But Honda would probably have to ruin it and make it a hybrid.

-Jim

** My Accord V6 gets 17 MPG around town - 24 on the highway
 
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It's also pretty obvious this car will be slow. It may have fantastic handling dynamics and be super fun but it will be slow. Notice there's no published Nurburgring time anywhere. I guess all in all it'll make for a fun daily driver --this part is almost certain.

Kind of makes me wonder why I would want an ITR or even an NSX in this day and age. I mean yeah the "NSX may have fantastic handling dynamics and be super fun, but it will be slow"... Hmmm funny how I just swaped cars and it fit. I won't be buying the Toyota 86 or the Subaru BRZ mainly cause I don't have room, but I am glad there is a light weight nimble car being released. I miss the old Integras and Celicas. I loved my friends modded AE86 when he had it. I think it makes driving fun again instead of just worrying about out MPGs.
 
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