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Anyone considering a Subaru BRZ or Scion FRS?
- Thread starter Jimbo
- Start date
don't get me wrong gents. slow isn't bad..
Yeah but it's just gonna look like a ricer car w a body kit, not the gorgeous concept body.
thats what the younger crowds are into. I was there yrs ago. What was I thinking back then.
- Joined
- 25 February 2012
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- 2,166
I know this is heresy, but I think with enough body work an FR-S could pass for an LFA (from a distance)...
Not suggesting it's a GOOD idea, just noting a vaguely similar shape and after seeing NSX transformed by things like the Veilside kit, using my imagination...
Alright, alright, now throw me in the rice(r) cooker...
- Joined
- 4 September 2008
- Messages
- 907
I was thinking the same thing actually. Guarantee there will be kits just for that look once this car is out fr a couple of years. A bunch of replica lfa will be rolling around haha, followed by threads of "fake lfa spotted"
Lol we don't have to throw you in the rice cooker, you are already there! I think that would be more a discredit to the LFA, Toyota should take a lesson- this is one more reason why real super cars are mid engine rear wheel drive. There are only so many things that can be done on a fiero chassis after all. It's much easier to slap a cheesy body kit on a car to make it look like something else.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/subaru-brz-review-first-drive-2012-28-2
You might think you know every last detail about the BRZ. Between Subaru and Toyota, there’s been a blizzard of multimedia. Enough concept cars, prototype sneak previews and track tests to broach your download limits.
But you don’t know it all. Because this is a road car, and here we are for the first time on the actual road.
See more pics of the Subaru BRZ on the road
So does it live up to the hype? Of course not. Unless it had been styled by da Vinci and engineered by Brunel – and for good measure had Newton quietly bent the laws of mechanics in its favour – it’d never have been as good as they said it would be.
But oh my, it comes close.
A quick recap. It’s a low-built, short-overhang, long-wheelbase rear-drive coupe. But the centre of mass is even lower than everyone else’s cars of that type, because it has a flat-four engine. And actually the flat-four is even lower and far further back than with other Subarus, because (since it’s RWD-only) there are no front driveshafts or diff in the way. There’s a limited-slip diff. It uses comparatively narrow tyres, so its 200bhp is enough.
The whole thing is a recipe for agility, low roll, tossable handling and general chicanery.
And so it turns out. The first few mountain hairpins or wet roundabouts verify that pivoting into a corner is the most natural feeling in the world. The front wheels are always happy to carve the exact track you request. Then you can poke the back end out and feel the hero. And unlike some rear-drivers, the BRZ’s magical balance and progression means it’s a cinch to gather up again. The low roll makes it marvellously tidy through S-bends.
But a road car needs more from its suspension and steering than a track car does. The steering needs to be direct and progressive, so you can pour the car into an uneven or unknown bend. The springs need to absorb bumps and keep the tyres evenly weighted so you don’t hop about.
And the BRZ is brilliant there too. All the steering lacks is a bit more feel, to tell you how much grip the tyres have left. But in this car more than in most, you don’t miss that because the rest of the car’s reactions are so accurate and faithful. You get the information from other sources.
The 200bhp two-litre is enough engine. Just. In this age of turbos, it does seem very light on torque between 3000 and 4000rpm. You have to revise your whole style of driving. Change down. And again. Rev its little spuds off, make sure you keep getting flashed by shift-up light as you zero in on 7500. That way happiness lies. For a flat-four, it doesn’t sound as charismatic as it might, but it’s always smooth enough that there’s no pain in sticking with those epic revs.
See more pics of the Subaru BRZ on the road
Hardcore though all of that might seem, this is a road car and you’ve got to be able to live with it. And though it’s firm, the ride is OK because you sit so low and so far from the wheels, there’s very little pitch and rock. The seats are brilliant and the legs-forward driving position spot-on. Everything quietens down decently at a motorway cruise. It’s easy to see out of, and the boot’s a decent size. If the front passenger slides forward, there’s even space to jam a grown-up in behind. Though there’d be human rights issues if you kept them there for more than 10 minutes.
And it looks good. Very good actually – bigger, more grown-up and less delicate than in pictures. A serious car.
And a serious laugh.
You might think you know every last detail about the BRZ. Between Subaru and Toyota, there’s been a blizzard of multimedia. Enough concept cars, prototype sneak previews and track tests to broach your download limits.
But you don’t know it all. Because this is a road car, and here we are for the first time on the actual road.
See more pics of the Subaru BRZ on the road
So does it live up to the hype? Of course not. Unless it had been styled by da Vinci and engineered by Brunel – and for good measure had Newton quietly bent the laws of mechanics in its favour – it’d never have been as good as they said it would be.
But oh my, it comes close.
A quick recap. It’s a low-built, short-overhang, long-wheelbase rear-drive coupe. But the centre of mass is even lower than everyone else’s cars of that type, because it has a flat-four engine. And actually the flat-four is even lower and far further back than with other Subarus, because (since it’s RWD-only) there are no front driveshafts or diff in the way. There’s a limited-slip diff. It uses comparatively narrow tyres, so its 200bhp is enough.
The whole thing is a recipe for agility, low roll, tossable handling and general chicanery.
And so it turns out. The first few mountain hairpins or wet roundabouts verify that pivoting into a corner is the most natural feeling in the world. The front wheels are always happy to carve the exact track you request. Then you can poke the back end out and feel the hero. And unlike some rear-drivers, the BRZ’s magical balance and progression means it’s a cinch to gather up again. The low roll makes it marvellously tidy through S-bends.
But a road car needs more from its suspension and steering than a track car does. The steering needs to be direct and progressive, so you can pour the car into an uneven or unknown bend. The springs need to absorb bumps and keep the tyres evenly weighted so you don’t hop about.
And the BRZ is brilliant there too. All the steering lacks is a bit more feel, to tell you how much grip the tyres have left. But in this car more than in most, you don’t miss that because the rest of the car’s reactions are so accurate and faithful. You get the information from other sources.
The 200bhp two-litre is enough engine. Just. In this age of turbos, it does seem very light on torque between 3000 and 4000rpm. You have to revise your whole style of driving. Change down. And again. Rev its little spuds off, make sure you keep getting flashed by shift-up light as you zero in on 7500. That way happiness lies. For a flat-four, it doesn’t sound as charismatic as it might, but it’s always smooth enough that there’s no pain in sticking with those epic revs.
See more pics of the Subaru BRZ on the road
Hardcore though all of that might seem, this is a road car and you’ve got to be able to live with it. And though it’s firm, the ride is OK because you sit so low and so far from the wheels, there’s very little pitch and rock. The seats are brilliant and the legs-forward driving position spot-on. Everything quietens down decently at a motorway cruise. It’s easy to see out of, and the boot’s a decent size. If the front passenger slides forward, there’s even space to jam a grown-up in behind. Though there’d be human rights issues if you kept them there for more than 10 minutes.
And it looks good. Very good actually – bigger, more grown-up and less delicate than in pictures. A serious car.
And a serious laugh.
I don't doubt it drives impressively, I am just disappointed with its down market looks. For $26k the rx8 had better looks, better quality, more power, and probably equal handling ability and feel. They should have targeted the z cars and went one level up instead of aiming low and delivering low.
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- 25 February 2012
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- 2,166
Frs with a Lfa body kit
- Joined
- 4 September 2008
- Messages
- 907
No offense but the rx8 was a POS.
I had one new in 2003 and had it for 4-5 years before the NSX, it definitely was not a POS and was much better than most cars as far as driving experience. It had scalpel like precision and an amazing chassis, and it was lightweight w high build quality. It was ultimately flawed as it had poor fuel economy and the rotary question of reliability, but mostly it didnt look good due to the bulge in side profile. If it were only an rx7 it would have become the darling it could have been.
Review - Miata vs the BRZ
http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...iata-featherweight-sports-car-faceoff-7650540
-Jim
http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...iata-featherweight-sports-car-faceoff-7650540
-Jim
I got to see the car in person for the 2nd time last night. However, this time I was able to sit in it and get pretty "touchy" with it. Heel-toed, shifted, and observed placement of controls, general visibility, and evaluated general seating position for aggressive driving and daily driving. I think you all (whomever is interested) can draw your own conclusions in a couple of weeks when it's out at your dealers.
Also talked with editors who had it out and confirmed with them the differences in handling between the BRZ and FR-S.
For the first time I realized how small it is. It doesn't feel small inside but the overall proportions makes it look small from the outside.
Also talked with editors who had it out and confirmed with them the differences in handling between the BRZ and FR-S.
For the first time I realized how small it is. It doesn't feel small inside but the overall proportions makes it look small from the outside.
I'm paraphrasing since obviously I haven't driven one yet. The FRS will be the livelier one. It is apparently incrementally more fun on say an Autocross because it's tuned for slightly more oversteer. The BRZ is suppose to feel more planted with slighly more understeer (typical Subaru). They say the BRZ has slightly better damping fyi. What was shocking to me was the BRZ is slightly lighter (I forget exactly.. 50lbs?). We were scratching our heads why since that BRZ had a wing on it too. My guess was that the BRZ has less sound insulation. The Scion is loud inside regardless, I forgot to write down how many decibels in-cabin cruising was but it was loud inside (typical econobox). This was already with the Prius tires too. It will get worse with stickies. This might be a deal breaker for me but one can't have their cake and eat it too...
Let's talk about the front seats because talking about the backseats would just be comedy. I use to have an S2000 so i'm comfortable saying the front seat will easily fit someone 6'2. The FRS had a seat height adjuster (similar to a pump lever you press down or pull up to adjust height) which was nice. Side bolsters may be too intrusive for some but I find them nice.
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BRZ pricing just came out today. $26k~ (above my $25k price ceiling) but the standard options list is impressive.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1075131_2013-subaru-brz-priced-all-models-under-30k
Seems like the base fr-s starts at ~$24,930 while the base br-z starts at ~$26,245.
Seems like the base fr-s starts at ~$24,930 while the base br-z starts at ~$26,245.
Saw it yesterday at the NYIAS, sat in hit, felt the linkage (obviously engine off), liked it. Yes, it'll get bought and slammed, riced, and re-riced...........so what. People here buy their NSX's and desecrate them with all kinds of body kits, etc. Me, I'm into "natural beauty", and the NSX has it in spades. I was very impressed with the BRZ, it felt comfortable, the linkage was smooth, the shift distance acceptable, the pedal placement ideal, what do you want for a 26k car, a Ferrari or NSX or GTR? You're not going to get it for that kind of money. I think that this car's going to be a big hit, affordable, attractive, sporty and practical. If you like it's looks, go and test drive one when it becomes available, and then make your best deal and go and enjoy!!!
oh cool.. another guy who's seen/sat in it too!
so I agree with you about everything. i'm a bit torn on the pedal position. i think it has more room for my big feet but the heel/toe is a bit easier on the NSX i think. The problem on the NSX is my foot gets caught up at the top near my toes. I don't have that problem in the BRZ/FRS. I also have to press farther on my heel on the NSX. Anyway, how often are we going to be heel-toe'ing going to the market...
Did you feel the car was small? The inside was big enough.. makes the S2000 feel claustrophobic, but the outside dimensions makes it look like a Miata to me.
Eager to hear your thoughts..
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