Anyone considering a Subaru BRZ or Scion FRS?

**Jimbo** · 03-03-2012, 11:28

I just got on the list for a BRZ. I plan to sell/trade my low-mileage Accord V6, 6 speed, loaded. Right arm issues force me to move to an automatic for my daily driver and I'm impressed with BRZ.

Got the BRZ Limited with the Alcantara.

http://www.subaru.com/brz/2013/index.html

**HBui39** · 03-03-2012, 11:35

i wanted one a while ago, but the design let me down. still, it holds up its promise as being a great drivers car. if you need a fun, economical car, this would fit the bill. Tsuchiya said if he were blindfolded, he would think he were driving something from BMW's M division. nice praise, indeed. also, the automatic seems to be quite sporty, so you should be fine.

**Jimbo** · 03-03-2012, 11:51

I understand your comment on the design. I am not in rapture over the styling. It's OK and attractive but not a knockout. However, I made this decision more for the driving experience and feel. I just want something fun and engaging to drive, practical for my DD.

I really liked the styling of the Accord Coupe and it's a fine car, but it's not great when it comes to spirited driving or handling. It's more of a GT highway cruiser. When equipped with the V6 the Coupe really needed SH-AWD. And the new Accord Coupe preview...well it just leaves me cold. Looks pretty much like the older one but with heavier and clumsier looking boy-racer accent lines.

**bigbadberry** · 03-03-2012, 14:37

I loved the original concept but it has gotten too watered down for my liking. I think an old blown miata may be just as much fun.

**RYU** · 03-03-2012, 14:52

There's a big thread on the FRS/GT86/BRZ on here were many of us weighed in. I tried to get on the first 86 promotion from Scion but wasn't able to get on that list. I'm in for the first batch if they keep the price under $25k. Ideally, it should be around $22-23k for the Scion imho and $25k'ish for the upper scale BRZ.

My friends at Toyota Corporate tell me the internal rumor is for the car to debut around $29k. That's just ridiculous for the car that it is and if that's the case i'm officially off the list.

**ShnookNSX** · 03-03-2012, 15:44

Originally Posted by RYU

My friends at Toyota Corporate tell me the internal rumor is for the car to debut around $29k. That's just ridiculous for the car that it is and if that's the case i'm officially off the list.

I talked to a Subaru dealer representative today at a meet who had the car on hand. It looks much better in person. He wasn't told specifically, but he's cautiously assuming $25k for the BRZ. Also, I should mention that their target for the BRZ (out in May) will be 5000 units over the entire year in the US with smaller dealers getting at least 1 and the larger ones getting a maximum of 11 (depending on how many WRXs and STi's they've sold). Which sounds like it'll be more expensive than $25k, but I may just be misjudging the actual market demand for this car.

I'm curious as to how the FR-S and the BRZ will be priced as they are essentially the same car. I'm sure the Toyota will have more options that push it to $25k if it does indeed start under the BRZ (22k-23k).

I also remember reading that the Toyota will have a bare-bones model with steelies for a quick wheel swap for the dorifto, a reg version, and a TRD version. Can anyone else confirm this??

**RYU** · 03-03-2012, 17:53

I've been obsessing over this car for the good part of the last 6 months. I'm in need of a new daily driver and since then this seems to fit the bill. Have you visited ft86club.com? There's a ton of information on there.

Basically, pricing speculations are all over the place right now from being 23k-29k'ish. There's no official pricing out as of today.

Evidently, the BRZ will tend to understeer a bit more than the FRS/FT86. The basic car in terms of suspension components, drivetrain will be the same. However, they each tuned their respective cars independently. The BRZ will ship with slightly higher end amenities (i.e. some alcantera, navigation, push button start, seat warmers, etc). The FRS will be slightly more spartan in comparison but given the full assortment of TRD parts already released the price can go up quickly if optioned proportionately.

I saw the car in person when Greddy did an unannounced sneak peak at our local Cars & Coffee. It's a hot little car in person. It doesn't look as small as it is. It's rather a good looking car I think.

I'm sold on the car. It's just pricing for me at this point. Anything over $25k and i'm out. As well engineered as this car, there are simply more entertaining options >$25k.

Also, yes... Toyota has announced a "bare bones" model but i'm not sure if that's going to be available for the US market. We'll have to wait and see. Toyota has announced though that they will offer different types of differentials which is a really really interesting direction for the company.

**nsxn8** · 03-04-2012, 04:32

The trunk was a deal-breaker for me. If this car had a liftback, then it would be my dream daily driver. Needless to say, I was depressed when I found out they're going the trunk route

**jond** · 03-05-2012, 04:19

I'm interested in the Subaru version when they get an STI model with some more power.
Seems like it would be a fun track toy.

Not sure why Toyota badged theirs are a Scion. Who want's a Scion? A Toyota badge would sell 10x more.

**payam972** · 03-05-2012, 10:07

Just left the Subaru dealership by my house, the sales guy said base price will be 27 and some change. Still don't know whether they will get an sti version. He also said Subaru and scion won't allow any dealer mark ups on this model.

I saw one at the cars and coffee in Plano on Saturday. Manufacture plates Very cool looking.

**RYU** · 03-05-2012, 10:12

Originally Posted by jond

Not sure why Toyota badged theirs are a Scion. Who want's a Scion? A Toyota badge would sell 10x more.

It was a business decision. The GT86/FRS concept was originally derived for the north american need to re-energize the Scion brand. Then it morphed into this which is suppose to be a spiritual successor to the AE86 for the global market.

This was originally suppose to be a Scion. If they don't give this to the Scion brand then they can pretty much kiss all the $$$ they spend on that brand goodbye. Toyota doesn't need it.. Scion does imho. I agree though that this car would have more clout as a Toyota but you're talking to a guy who is not part of the Scion brand's target market.

**Jimbo** · 03-05-2012, 11:46

Originally Posted by payam972

Just left the Subaru dealership by my house, the sales guy said base price will be 27 and some change. Still don't know whether they will get an sti version. He also said Subaru and scion won't allow any dealer mark ups on this model.

I saw one at the cars and coffee in Plano on Saturday. Manufacture plates Very cool looking.

Won't allow? I'm not sure that Subaru/Toyota can do anything about dealer markups. Dealers are marking them up already.

**FuryNSX** · 03-05-2012, 16:15

Scions aren't marked up, and are generally sold at MSRP, so I'd expect the FR-S to sell at the list price.

**Jimbo** · 03-05-2012, 16:30

Originally Posted by FuryNSX

Scions aren't marked up, and are generally sold at MSRP, so I'd expect the FR-S to sell at the list price.

Dealers are only getting a couple cars each. My Subaru dealer plans to mark up accordingly. If they can order additional outside this initial allocation they agreed to sell me at list.

On the BRZ-FR-S forum there's a listing of dealers who are charging over list.

-Jim

**RYU** · 03-05-2012, 16:47

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Dealers are only getting a couple cars each. My Subaru dealer plans to mark up accordingly. If they can order additional outside this initial allocation they agreed to sell me at list.

On the BRZ-FR-S forum there's a listing of dealers who are charging over list.

-Jim

The Scion sales model is completely different than the Subaru. Scion sells at a fixed, no haggle, price. Salespeople at Scion don't get commission for example.

It will be interesting to see if the Scion msrp will be artificially higher to address market demand. I have a feeling price will get cheaper in year 2 or year 3 as they find a pricing equilibrium. You also make an interesting point about your Subie dealer selling to you at list. They almost have to if they plan to complete with Scion's fixed price model OR the Subaru BRZ will have to be optioned so significantly different that they don't really compete with each other.

Pricing is an interesting topic for this car. Speculation is rampant over at the FT86 forums.

I think the hype on this car will die down very quick so it will be interesting come 2013. That's probably when I'll buy.

**whiteNSXs** · 03-05-2012, 19:41

For a little sport car at that price range, I think the car looks great.
Steve

**Nero Tenebre** · 03-05-2012, 21:01

For $30k it should have looked EXACTLY like the concept. The concept was stunning and the production car looks like el cheapo IMO.

**NSX167** · 03-05-2012, 22:40

Originally Posted by whiteNSXs

For a little sport car at that price range, I think the car looks great.
Steve

+1.

http://www.subaru.com/brz/2013/artic...posts/brz-2013

http://www.subaru.com/content/downlo...s/2013_BRZ.pdf

**jond** · 03-06-2012, 03:59

At 2800lbs and 200hp, a turbo could probably get it close to 10hp/lb. Not bad.

**RYU** · 03-06-2012, 07:30

Originally Posted by jond

At 2800lbs and 200hp, a turbo could probably get it close to 10hp/lb. Not bad.

Agreed! Keep in mind though, the stock compression ratio is already 12.5:1 which is super high already. Yet, companies like HKS and Greddy have come out saying they have Turbo and Supercharger options already in development. I'm wondering how they're doing that with the already high compression ratio. It's all very interesting!

**BATMANs** · 03-06-2012, 07:41

I'll take the Genesis coupe with more power. And that's barely cutting it for me on the power.

I'm just not used to driving cars with less than 500HP. It's so slow feeling.

**Swift** · 03-06-2012, 16:24

I am watering at the mouth. The GF needs a car, beige camry just wont do it, however I am going to wait around 2yrs so all the bugs/kinks are worked out and it comes with a better fascia and more hp like always.

**Ultraman** · 03-06-2012, 21:07

This a great car for the 20 to early 30's age group. Don't think people over 40 would fit the image too well.

Case in point, I saw a nice Lancer Evolution but when I saw the driver is a guy in his 50s it was kind of weird.

Just my 2 cents ...

**Jimbo** · 03-06-2012, 21:34

Originally Posted by kriderrx

This a great car for the 20 to early 30's age group. Don't think people over 40 would fit the image too well.

Case in point, I saw a nice Lancer Evolution but when I saw the driver is a guy in his 50s it was kind of weird.

Just my 2 cents ...

Actually, I have the marketing materials from Subaru and you're wrong. So take that with your crappy over-generalizations.

Target buyer median age is 47.
Median household income is $89K
30% have post grad degree
46% have bachelors degree
67% have executive or white collar jobs
64% male 36% female
68% married
39% parents with children at home

**NsXMas** · 03-06-2012, 22:11

Originally Posted by kriderrx

This a great car for the 20 to early 30's age group. Don't think people over 40 would fit the image too well.

Case in point, I saw a nice Lancer Evolution but when I saw the driver is a guy in his 50s it was kind of weird.

Just my 2 cents ...

I take it you're under 40?

How about that chick who is 43 but looks 18?

I'm excited to see cars like these, it's great to be an auto enthusiast again. The last time I felt this was was in the 90's when we had the NSX, Supra, 300ZX, RX7, 3000 GT, MR2, etc.