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Aerochargers TT more testing

Dave you are one of my favorite members here. All your posts are informative and well written and your work is meticulous, you add a lot of value to this community... Much appreciated.

Thank You,

I had about 5 hours to kill today so I started the new clutch install. Got the trans out, new clutch in, and trans back in. Have to button up the drive shafts, rear suspension and throw it on the alignment rack. Should be done in another 3-4 hours. Now that I have done one I think I could get through it a little faster but not much, there is a lot to undo and redo to change a clutch.

Dave
 
Cool. I'm driving in tomorrow and going to be in St Louis all week. Let me know when you have some time free, I'd love to see it.

sent from my crappy cell phone.
 
Thank You,

I had about 5 hours to kill today so I started the new clutch install. Got the trans out, new clutch in, and trans back in. Have to button up the drive shafts, rear suspension and throw it on the alignment rack. Should be done in another 3-4 hours. Now that I have done one I think I could get through it a little faster but not much, there is a lot to undo and redo to change a clutch.

Dave

Holy hell, you move fast.... I wish I had a lift and power tools when I did mine!
 
Holy hell, you move fast.... I wish I had a lift and power tools when I did mine!

Hand tools only, except for a cheap little Ryobi electric impact that I use to run out all my bolts after I crack them loose. The lift make all the difference on this type of job, you can do everything standing under the car and just take your time.

I got everything back together this morning and did a lot of cleaning under there as well. spent about 3 hours buttoning things back up. Good news I do not have to drop the turbos or any part of the exhaust to change the clutch, was not sure about that untill I got started.

The thing that frustrated me the most about the job, and I was dropping a couple of F-bombs, was the stupid bolt on the top of the starter and the bumb bracket that is used as a stand-off for the wire harness. I was rocking along untill I got to this thing, how in the hell does Honda think anyone with normal sized hands was ever going to be able to put that bracket back in place, then get the bolt back in place. I wasted about 15 min getting that thing back in, finally got it but there is no way to get on this thing any other way than by feel. (Sorry had to vent a little)

I will put a few miles on the clutch and get a few heat cycles in then change my spings and maybe try the .5 turn in setting on the vain controller and see what happens. Should have a better update with some more hard data after the track day. I will let you guys know how the clutch is doing after a few more days of break in.

Dave
 
Hey Dave, how is the driveability of the clutch?
 
Hey Dave, how is the driveability of the clutch?

You know it really is not that bad, I have about 250 miles on it so far and it has been better than I thaught it was going to be. It does chatter in first and reverse if you try and slip the clutch at all, time it right and it is as smooth as any other after market clutch I have had. It seems to be able to hold the power, will find out Monday at Autobaun. The pedal pressure is exactly like stock very light and engauges at the same point as stock just with a more aggressive bite. So far I am happy and I can live with the chatter when I take up the clutch wrong, if anything it will make me a better driver as it forces you to be perfect on revs and uptake of the clutch. If you are at 400whp I would do the full face instead of the 6 puck.

Dave
 
You know it really is not that bad, I have about 250 miles on it so far and it has been better than I thaught it was going to be. It does chatter in first and reverse if you try and slip the clutch at all, time it right and it is as smooth as any other after market clutch I have had. It seems to be able to hold the power, will find out Monday at Autobaun. The pedal pressure is exactly like stock very light and engauges at the same point as stock just with a more aggressive bite. So far I am happy and I can live with the chatter when I take up the clutch wrong, if anything it will make me a better driver as it forces you to be perfect on revs and uptake of the clutch. If you are at 400whp I would do the full face instead of the 6 puck.

Dave


That's good Dave! Atleast you don't have the stiffness like mine. Are you planning on putting it back on the dyno and adjusting those weird turbos? :tongue:. You have them tuned pretty conservative for low torque right?
 
Another Update:

Spent the day at Autobahn Country Club full course, 3.56 miles and 20 turns. The car was setup with the 400whp track tune and the fuel was mixed to 95 Octane. The day was Hot and hit 90 degrees at the track.

In an effort to keep these updates short but informative I have broke this into a few sections.

IAT info - The main thing to report is that after a 20min session on a road course that requires a lot more on full throttle time than on the brakes the IAT's did not hit any higher than 138* when the ambient temps were 90*. In the morning when we had ambient temps under 80* the peak IAT's were 129*, add 10* to ambient air temps and the peak IAT's moved up 9*. So at least with 6-7lbs of boost and 400whp the intercooler and heat exchanger seem to be able to control IAT's fairly well. With system heat soak happening at about ambient plus 50*. That is higher than what I was seeing in normal street driving but for the track and as hard as I was running I am very happy with the results. These numbers were recorded within the first two to three laps in each session and remained relativly constant for the remainly laps in each session.

Clutch - SOS Sport 6 Puck, after driving the car on the street during the break in cycle I was not sure I would like the clutch and after reading several other reviews of the reported shudder I had serious reservations about even installing it. On the track this clutch is so much better than the stock clutch, engagement is crisp. The pedal pressure is so stock like I am not sure anyone would know it is not stock. Those are the good things, the bad things are the clutch shudder on take up in first gear and reverse. It is not crazy, and does not shake you around but you are aware if it. You can make a perfect start in first gear and not have any shudder, but you have to time everything perfectly to make that happen. If you have to have a clutch that will hold more than 300 ft lbs of TQ this is the one to buy, as it is the best mannered I have driven with the power levels it will hold. If you are under 300 ft lbs then you will be much happier with the full face disk in the normal Sport Clutch. On a side note if you remove the clutch dampner you will feel a lot of feed back in the clutch pedal that the dampner is there to remove, I got use to it right away but it does feel different and is noticable. The lighter flywheel also makes for a few other noticable differences, the car revs very fast now but falls just as fast, when you are running throught eh gears this is great but if you wait to long for the upshift and do not rev match the engine RPM's had dropped so far so fast that the clutch has to dring the RPM's back up to the right engine speed and this is something you will feel and notice. Also the OBDII cars will have less issue with this than the OBDI cars but the ECU will have a harder time catching the idle and I have seen engine RPMs drop below 500 as the ECU strugles to catch the idle. It has not died yet from the sudden drop in RPM's but on the slower OBDI ECU's and an IAC to control idle I can see it may be a problem.

The Turbos - I have nothing really to add about the cars performance other than to say it was the same as before and presented no problems what so ever. Boost is instant on the track as RPMs are always above 4k.

The Tires - I ran off my Kuhmo Victor Racers at Putnam Park last time out so I had to get new tires, I wanted something that had a chance of lasting a little longer than the Kuhmos and the Hoosiers I had run before so I decided to try the Nitto NT-01's, I went with 275/40/17's in the rear and was forced to use 205/40/17's in the front due to the sizes offered in the NT-01. I wanted as much tire in the rear as possible becuase of the 400whp and would have liked to get a little more tire in the front but I did find the car to push a little and I think the car would have been better under braking with a little wider front. The tire wear is great so far and if they keep wearing like this and I stay off of Putnam I should be able to do a few more track events and will be able to finsh out the year without buying any more tires. Overall grip is good and it was improving after each session. The NT-01s are not recommended to be shaved and the tread depth is a bit thick when new so they do squirm around little untill you run some rubber off. By the forth session I had a much better idea of where the track was going and the tires had started to come in as well. Track temps were very high and keeping the tires in the 35-38 PSI range seemed to be what they liked. If they last I would buy them again.

The Compitition - My buddy and his Carbon Edition Z06 that I tuned and prepped for the track was there with me, that car is dialed in just about as good as any street/track setup I have driven. He was hanging in there with a Viper ACRx. Both drivers are not pro-level but both have considerable track time and have proven to be one of the fastest guys in the Advance Group with MVP for the past track events we have run together. I could hang with the CE-Z06 for no more than 2 laps after that I had pushed my brakes and tires as far as they could be pushed by me and needed to cool down. Other guys were able to get by me early in the day and I was running them down late in the day after a few more session. The Autobahn full course is a lot to learn in a day and since it was the first time I had been there my first two sessions I had no idea what was the best line around the track. After Mike the club track rat was kind enough to ride with me for a session I fixed some of the mistakes I was making and was able to link my corners and straights a lot better and picked up speed and shaved time. All in all I had a blast and can not recommend the track facilities enough the Autobahn is top notch all the way.

We enjoyed the track at Autobahn so much we are planning to return to Joliet in August to do it again, if anyone is interested in joining us that would be great. It does sort of suck being the only NSX at these track events but it never fails the number of car guys that stop by the trailer and want to know everything about these great cars.

Sorry for the long post

Dave
 
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I enjoyed reading that. Thanks for sharing!!!

I've only logged about 350miles so far on my FX300 clutch and I'm experiencing the same characteristics you are. Its as if I was writing that! Do you notice the engagement characteristics of the clutch changes when it's had a chance to warm up? I think I do but with only 350 miles it's too early to tell. Also, did you find you needed to adjust your pedal free-play? In terms of the new clutch and the damper delete I noticed I can no longer be lazy with modulating my left foot anymore. You're given a much bigger sweet spot with the OEM clutch which is only of any real benefit in 1st and Reverse in the parking lot. Mild to aggressive shifting in 2-3-4-5 is quite satisfying now. Though I have to match the throttle to axle speed much better. In return the shifts are super crisp and it feels very sporty.

Great news on the IATs. I wish I could keep mine that low. We'll see..
 
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Although I glanced through the thread, I still may be missing this.

WHERE CAN I BUY THESE TWINS? I thought they were forever gone!

As I think I mentioned before.. drove a TT system about 10 years ago, and THAT ride was like a large v8 starting at 3000 RPM. I can still feel it. I have a supercharged and that's 'fast' for sure, but the comparison is nothign like it.

While the supercharger has more of a "pull" as it's wound up and raises boost, the TT had just a hard 'large v8 kick'. It felt like a Z06, but pushed from behind. "The NSX is on rails" took a new meaning.

That's the only way I can explain it. WHERE CAN I BUY THESE BABIES?
 
WHERE CAN I BUY THESE TWINS? I thought they were forever gone!

The original user of the Aerocharger Turbos was Bell Engineering you can search for info here on Prime use "BEGI" as your search term. The design and rights for the system/kit were sold to another vendor and then Aerocharger had a supply issue and was out of business. Later the son of the patent holder I think began manufacturing and designing the turbos again. Now they offer many different sizes compared to what they had to offer before. The company does not sell kits for cars as of yet. They have focused on the ATV market and have been very successful within that market and I was told that they did not have any time to devote to the development of a kit for the NSX. So I decided to build my own and pick up were the Bell system left off and take advantage of the new larger T66 Aerocharger. The old Bell kits come up for sale on Prime every once and a while and many of the original kits have been converted to a conventional turbo due to the small size of the original Aerocharger and the customers new power goals.

The new larger turbos T66 series have more than enough room to handle 550-600whp if the engine can handle it, their size does require the use of two in order to supply enough air. The price of two turbos puts a system like this at a major price disadvantage when compaired to the single turbo kits out there now, but it is hard to beat the spool rate and simplicity that a turbo of this design allows for. Right now the turbos are controlled by a very simple vane controller, oiled by a self contained oiling system, cooled by the airflow through the turbo, do not require a wategate, do not require a blow-off, and are ready to bolt into place without any additional pluming of oil or water to keep them alive. They fall right in line with the K.I.S.S. design that I wanted for my car.

The Aerocharger Turbos are available here:
http://aerocharger.com/aerochargers.php

However there is not currently a kit available for this type of turbo, you have to design and build your system to meet your goals, or convince someone that has done it already to do it again.

Dave
 
.....or convince someone that has done it already to do it again.

Dave

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I had the opportunity to ride in Dave's car last week and it was awesome! Unlike other turbo NSXs I have been in, you can't hear the turbos spool and barely hear the BOV. I was ecstatic, as I want an OEMish system. It was like riding in a Porsche 997TT - no turbine whine and no drama - just an NSX with a hell of a lot more power. Some people may like the supercharger or turbo whine, and some may like hearing their car sneeze every time they lift.... but not me. Dave's system sounds and drives like what a factory NSX would have been had the T stood for Turbo. :wink:
 
had the T stood for Turbo. :wink:

it doesn't? :confused:

Dave do you have your install documented anywhere? So you are using a BOV anyway?

These things are so cool!
 
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:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I had the opportunity to ride in Dave's car last week and it was awesome! Unlike other turbo NSXs I have been in, you can't hear the turbos spool and barely hear the BOV. I was ecstatic, as I want an OEMish system. It was like riding in a Porsche 997TT - no turbine whine and no drama - just an NSX with a hell of a lot more power. Some people may like the supercharger or turbo whine, and some may like hearing their car sneeze every time they lift.... but not me. Dave's system sounds and drives like what a factory NSX would have been had the T stood for Turbo. :wink:

Did he show you the engine bay? It's amazing how stock he made it look.
 
Did he show you the engine bay? It's amazing how stock he made it look.

I WANNA SEE!!!!!!

crying_baby.jpg
 
Dave do you have your install documented anywhere? So you are using a BOV anyway?

As of now I have not taken the time to do a build thread, this one is the closest thing I have to documenting the build, I will do it someday as I have about 300 pics, 80 dyno runs from several different types of dynos, and about 100 log files to document the progression of this project. I also have a few very unique items within this build and have been reluctant to post them in case I decided to build a few kits or produce a few of the pieces for others to use on their kits. As of now I am leaning towards building 3-4 complete kits if their are buyers and then turning all the info loose here on Prime so people can do with it what they want. The only reason to build the additional kits would be to recover some of the R&D money and time. All I need to build is three to get the component cost down to a manageable level. The Price for a system like this is not going to be cheap as the hardware cost of the two turbos alone is over $5K, but the rest of the hardware is quite cheap since you do not need a waste gate, plumbing for oil or water, no scavenge pumps, no boost controllers, and no custom or aftermarket headers.

The system is using a Bosch BOV from an Audi. They are cheap and reliable. I decided to add the BOV into the design from the beginning even though the guys at Aerocharger said it was not required but would aid in keeping the turbos spooled during fast throttle transitions like you will see on a road course. If the only use for the car was street use then the BOV would not be needed at all. But the cost of the BOV is like $80.00 for the part and may have only added at most $200.00 to the total system cost. It was easier to plan for it and cap the flange later if I did not need it than to have to rework the piping later if I wanted it. The BOV is mounted inside the OEM air box and is not visible.

Dave
 
As of now I have not taken the time to do a build thread, this one is the closest thing I have to documenting the build, I will do it someday as I have about 300 pics, 80 dyno runs from several different types of dynos, and about 100 log files to document the progression of this project. I also have a few very unique items within this build and have been reluctant to post them in case I decided to build a few kits or produce a few of the pieces for others to use on their kits. As of now I am leaning towards building 3-4 complete kits if their are buyers and then turning all the info loose here on Prime so people can do with it what they want. The only reason to build the additional kits would be to recover some of the R&D money and time. All I need to build is three to get the component cost down to a manageable level. The Price for a system like this is not going to be cheap as the hardware cost of the two turbos alone is over $5K, but the rest of the hardware is quite cheap since you do not need a waste gate, plumbing for oil or water, no scavenge pumps, no boost controllers, and no custom or aftermarket headers.

The system is using a Bosch BOV from an Audi. They are cheap and reliable. I decided to add the BOV into the design from the beginning even though the guys at Aerocharger said it was not required but would aid in keeping the turbos spooled during fast throttle transitions like you will see on a road course. If the only use for the car was street use then the BOV would not be needed at all. But the cost of the BOV is like $80.00 for the part and may have only added at most $200.00 to the total system cost. It was easier to plan for it and cap the flange later if I did not need it than to have to rework the piping later if I wanted it. The BOV is mounted inside the OEM air box and is not visible.

Dave

I'm excited! Bring this system together. I assume/hope someone like DrivingAmbition can make this system work. It sounds no significantly more complex than a CT supercharger w/ a AEM.
 
I WANNA SEE!!!!!!

crying_baby.jpg

Here are a couple of pics of the bay, my goal was to hide as much as possible and make all the electrical and mechanicals look as OEM as possible. For those of you who like to play where is Waldo, can you find the intercooler, BOV, Emmisions air pump filter, catch can, W2A plumbing, 2nd MAP sensor, Fuel Pressure Sensor, PCV Delete

<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_09541.jpg" />

<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_0957.jpg" />

<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_09561.jpg" />

Dave
 
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