I have 2 question for anyone who's willing: one specific to an NSX I'm considering and one that's a somewhat philosophical question to NSX/car shopping in general.
#1) I'm looking at an early NA1 with ~70k miles that has the following records. I don't believe the pile of records is complete. Looks to be on its third clutch, second TB/WP, and it curiously may have had all (but one?) hoses replaced at two separate services, one in '08 and one in '10. Snap ring looks to have been replaced with the first clutch replacement. In 2008 it had a $5k+ service which included replacing a brake master cylinder & leaking valve cover & cam plugs.
I count 21 hoses on the two invoices. When I compare the p/n's to the list of 22 hoses on http://nsxprime.com/wiki/Coolant_hoses, only item 22 (overflow tube) is missing, and only 1 of item 18 (bypass hose C) is listed - I noticed 2-qty item 18's in other Prime postings… So my question is, looking at the list below, does anyone see anything worth raising an eyebrow over? Can I assume replacing the brake master cyl and the leaking valve cover & cam plugs are not surprising for a ~20 year old car? What else could be "next?" like shocks, bushings, etc.? Ok that's 3 questions. Personally, I don't see any major issues but I'm not as familiar as many of you. I don't know yet about the condition of the windows, radio, HVAC but I assume the 2008/2010 services would have flagged everything. Car's had some paint due to minor scratches. I'll arrange a PPI if I think this may be the one. This one is around the $30k mark, and I'm also considering various NA2's for $12-15k more and around half the miles of this one…
blue = maintenance
red = repair that stands out
2010 - electronics repair shop
-door amp exchange, radio repair
2010 - 75k miles - $3k+ service - Independent Honda Specialist
-replace coolant hoses (9 hoses counted on parts list)
-ABS service
-remove & reinstall base amp
-replace axle seal
-remove door panel, reinstall rod, lubricate regulator, adjust guides
-drain & refill trans - auto trans fluid (this is a 5 speed...???)
-shift engine & suspension cradle
-replace horn
2008 - 70k miles - $6k+ service - Acura dealership
-replace TB/WP
-new Acura clutch
-brake flush
-replace leaking valve cover, cam plugs
-replace drive belts, timing belt tensioner bearing
-replace all accessible coolant hoses (12 hoses)
-replace battery
-replace all axle boots
-replace leaking brake master cylinder
1998-2008 no records
1998 - independent auto shop - $1800
replace clutch
replace snap ring (only p/n's on invoice is 90602-PR8-000 and 10/30 oil)
#2) Next question is part philosophical and part "real." Is your glass half empty or half full… When you buy a car that received a lot of service in the 2-5 years before you bought it, did your experience equate into buying one that was "100% fresh" that needed nothing major for the next few years, or did you need to have certain problems serviced that likely were present before your purchase and either went unnoticed or intentionally ignored?
I feel pretty familiar with the NSX's weak spots vs. overall reliability. I think the list for the one above isn't too bad. I have no idea of how the prior owners treated it, I can only deal with the here & now. Given the overall reliability of the NSX, I'd tend to think that there are few lemons out there and that most repairs are just unavoidable "noise" with NSX ownership. I thought the same thing though about Nissans - ten years ago I bought a ten year old 300ZX with a pretty long list of repairs. In the two years I owned it I had about $2200 worth of repairs due to clutch & engine issues, it was a bit more problematic than I had expected. It left me stranded needing a tow twice. It was literally owned by a little old lady two miles from me and kept under cover in the garage. Her records showed that she maintained it well. Given the problems I had right away, I'm not unconvinced she knew that it was a problematic car.
Interestingly, when I look at the running costs for my various cars which included new & used domestic & foreign cars, it seemed to average out to around $300/month no matter whether the car was known for being highly reliable or not. That number is true even for my 2002 Accord, it's cost about $275/month for 10 years considering purchase cost, maintenance & repairs.
Hey, thanks for any input!
#1) I'm looking at an early NA1 with ~70k miles that has the following records. I don't believe the pile of records is complete. Looks to be on its third clutch, second TB/WP, and it curiously may have had all (but one?) hoses replaced at two separate services, one in '08 and one in '10. Snap ring looks to have been replaced with the first clutch replacement. In 2008 it had a $5k+ service which included replacing a brake master cylinder & leaking valve cover & cam plugs.
I count 21 hoses on the two invoices. When I compare the p/n's to the list of 22 hoses on http://nsxprime.com/wiki/Coolant_hoses, only item 22 (overflow tube) is missing, and only 1 of item 18 (bypass hose C) is listed - I noticed 2-qty item 18's in other Prime postings… So my question is, looking at the list below, does anyone see anything worth raising an eyebrow over? Can I assume replacing the brake master cyl and the leaking valve cover & cam plugs are not surprising for a ~20 year old car? What else could be "next?" like shocks, bushings, etc.? Ok that's 3 questions. Personally, I don't see any major issues but I'm not as familiar as many of you. I don't know yet about the condition of the windows, radio, HVAC but I assume the 2008/2010 services would have flagged everything. Car's had some paint due to minor scratches. I'll arrange a PPI if I think this may be the one. This one is around the $30k mark, and I'm also considering various NA2's for $12-15k more and around half the miles of this one…
blue = maintenance
red = repair that stands out
2010 - electronics repair shop
-door amp exchange, radio repair
2010 - 75k miles - $3k+ service - Independent Honda Specialist
-replace coolant hoses (9 hoses counted on parts list)
-ABS service
-remove & reinstall base amp
-replace axle seal
-remove door panel, reinstall rod, lubricate regulator, adjust guides
-drain & refill trans - auto trans fluid (this is a 5 speed...???)
-shift engine & suspension cradle
-replace horn
2008 - 70k miles - $6k+ service - Acura dealership
-replace TB/WP
-new Acura clutch
-brake flush
-replace leaking valve cover, cam plugs
-replace drive belts, timing belt tensioner bearing
-replace all accessible coolant hoses (12 hoses)
-replace battery
-replace all axle boots
-replace leaking brake master cylinder
1998-2008 no records
1998 - independent auto shop - $1800
replace clutch
replace snap ring (only p/n's on invoice is 90602-PR8-000 and 10/30 oil)
#2) Next question is part philosophical and part "real." Is your glass half empty or half full… When you buy a car that received a lot of service in the 2-5 years before you bought it, did your experience equate into buying one that was "100% fresh" that needed nothing major for the next few years, or did you need to have certain problems serviced that likely were present before your purchase and either went unnoticed or intentionally ignored?
I feel pretty familiar with the NSX's weak spots vs. overall reliability. I think the list for the one above isn't too bad. I have no idea of how the prior owners treated it, I can only deal with the here & now. Given the overall reliability of the NSX, I'd tend to think that there are few lemons out there and that most repairs are just unavoidable "noise" with NSX ownership. I thought the same thing though about Nissans - ten years ago I bought a ten year old 300ZX with a pretty long list of repairs. In the two years I owned it I had about $2200 worth of repairs due to clutch & engine issues, it was a bit more problematic than I had expected. It left me stranded needing a tow twice. It was literally owned by a little old lady two miles from me and kept under cover in the garage. Her records showed that she maintained it well. Given the problems I had right away, I'm not unconvinced she knew that it was a problematic car.
Interestingly, when I look at the running costs for my various cars which included new & used domestic & foreign cars, it seemed to average out to around $300/month no matter whether the car was known for being highly reliable or not. That number is true even for my 2002 Accord, it's cost about $275/month for 10 years considering purchase cost, maintenance & repairs.
Hey, thanks for any input!