Engine speculations

[WingZ]

I think that you are being too nice Being too nice will let Honda lose footing ultimately because it gives them room to slack. I still stand by the thought that the RLX interior could be better, but I do agree that it is not bad, especially with a less busy button layout.

No I like it much better than the 5 series interior , but the exterior if it looks exactly like the concept needs help. Especially that lower front fascia molding.

I bet they will get 36-40 mpg if they can achieve 3000 lbs. Speaking of which, I was checking out the ILX specs. The Hybrid ILX's curb weight is actually lighter than the 2.4 sport model! They all tap in right under 3000 lbs. I checked the Prius's curb weight, it was sub 3000lbs also. I never really bothered to check any of these cars. This shines some optimistic light.

The RLX projected weight bothered me, but I think that is because it is loaded with many amenities that are necessary at all. I strongly believe they can achieve a 3000 lb car now and hope they do so.

Yeah I'm thinking real close to 40mpg. Wow imagine a car that does 3 secs 0-60 and gets 40mpg ...WOW!

[BD]

My buddy brought his new M3 over and I just can't understand for the price of that car, the interior is... cheesy, even my friend admit to me that he didn't really like the materials they used. The only reason he bought the M3 is because there weren't anything from Honda for him after he graduated from Honda.

[JD Cross]

..........he bought the M3 is because there were anything for him after he graduated from Honda.

What on earth does the last part of the above sentence mean?

Jim

[WingZ]

My buddy brought his new M3 over and I just can't understand for the price of that car, the interior is... cheesy, even my friend admit to me that he didn't really like the materials they used. The only reason he bought the M3 is because there were anything for him after he graduated from Honda.

Exactly. Nice outsides but current Bimmers interiors took a step back. Audi seems to have it nailed though.

[N Spec]

No I like it much better than the 5 series interior , but the exterior if it looks exactly like the concept needs help. Especially that lower front fascia molding.






Yeah I'm thinking real close to 40mpg. Wow imagine a car that does 3 secs 0-60 and gets 40mpg ...WOW!

I agree about the exterior front. The wheels are hideous too. Honda has surpassed BMW a long time ago as far as interiors go. I am basing this off of Honda's previous iterations. It seems as if they are still stumbling around with their interior quality and I hope they get it back for the N2X atleast.

A 40 mpg car that does 60 in 3 secs would be hard to argue with. A 4000 lb sedan with ~400 hp getting 30 mpg across the board is already an impressive feat.

[WingZ]

I agree about the exterior front. The wheels are hideous too. Honda has surpassed BMW a long time ago as far as interiors go. I am basing this off of Honda's previous iterations. It seems as if they are still stumbling around with their interior quality and I hope they get it back for the N2X atleast.

A 40 mpg car that does 60 in 3 secs would be hard to argue with. A 4000 lb sedan with ~400 hp getting 30 mpg across the board is already an impressive feat.

Tell me about it those wheels are HIDEOUS! The ones on the tester are much better. Has to be some way to make this new one look more athletic

[A.S. Motorsport]

Rather old but a nice insight in direct injection J-Series:



That's a DI 3.5l j-series - 307 HP
I'm fairly certain it's forming the basis for the RLX, and likely the NSX?

[stevenlucksek]

http://www.freep.com/article/2012102...ape-in-America

More details, including the location of the plant to make the NSX in Ohio, are expected to be revealed later in November.

isnt this interesting?

La Auto Show in Nov?

[BATMANs]

looks like the intake ports flow less than our NSX s

[A.S. Motorsport]

looks like the intake ports flow less than our NSX s

That's a general setup, but the plenum configuration is better.
NSX will get different manifolds for sure.

Not sure if the NSX will be DOHC or SOHC like the rest, I'd say 50/50 change maybe leaning a bit towards SOHC

[BATMANs]

unless they do something about the styling of the NSX the only reason why someone would buy the new NSX is:

1. it's new
2. updated electronics
3. I'm sure the interior will look better than the exterior....

[Honcho]

If the engines are being handbuilt on a separate line in Anna, then they will be DOHC. Otherwise, Honda would build them on the regular SOHC J-series line and then pull them off for balancing, enhancement, etc. Look for 360- 400 hp without motors if this is true.

[JD Cross]

If the engines are being handbuilt on a separate line in Anna, then they will be DOHC. Otherwise, Honda would build them on the regular SOHC J-series line and then pull them off for balancing, enhancement, etc. Look for 360- 400 hp without motors if this is true.

I'm a bit confused here.
Are you suggesting that if the engine is built in Anna it will be a DOHC but if not built in Anna it will be a SOHC?

Jim

[A.S. Motorsport]

I'm a bit confused here.
Are you suggesting that if the engine is built in Anna it will be a DOHC but if not built in Anna it will be a SOHC?

Jim

If it will be built on a separate production line. (just like the LS7's are made on a special line relative to the LS3, LSA, etc)
Same was done with the C30A and C32B they head there own line.

A bit of a side note, history would repeating it self since NSX engines are basically a enlarged '87 Legend engine with addition of DOHC and V-Tec.

[Honcho]

I'm a bit confused here.
Are you suggesting that if the engine is built in Anna it will be a DOHC but if not built in Anna it will be a SOHC?

Jim

The Anna plant is where Honda builds its SOHC J-series V6, which powers their full range of vehicles from the Accord to the MDX. The article indicates the NSX V6, which is a derivative of the J-series also developed for the RLX, will be hand built on a separate line. The only reason to do so is that the compnents of the NSX V6 engine are so different that it could not fit into the normal asssembly line process. To my mind, this means using DOHC heads, which require a very different assembly process compared to SOHC. Otherwise, Honda would simply assemble the NSX engine on the normal SOHC line, pulling it off near the end for "finishing" unique to NSX performance requirements (balancing, porting, etc). The fact they are spending time and money on a separate hand built line tells me the engine is different enough to warrant the expense.

[A.S. Motorsport]

The Anna plant is where Honda builds its SOHC J-series V6, which powers their full range of vehicles from the Accord to the MDX. The article indicates the NSX V6, which is a derivative of the J-series also developed for the RLX, will be hand built on a separate line. The only reason to do so is that the compnents of the NSX V6 engine are so different that it could not fit into the normal asssembly line process. To my mind, this means using DOHC heads, which require a very different assembly process compared to SOHC. Otherwise, Honda would simply assemble the NSX engine on the normal SOHC line, pulling it off near the end for "finishing" unique to NSX performance requirements (balancing, porting, etc). The fact they are spending time and money on a separate hand built line tells me the engine is different enough to warrant the expense.

But it's also critical marketing to differentiate your the NSX so they don't call it's just a regular acura engine.

[JD Cross]

The Anna plant is where Honda builds its SOHC J-series V6, which powers their full range of vehicles from the Accord to the MDX. The article indicates the NSX V6, which is a derivative of the J-series also developed for the RLX, will be hand built on a separate line. The only reason to do so is that the compnents of the NSX V6 engine are so different that it could not fit into the normal asssembly line process. To my mind, this means using DOHC heads, which require a very different assembly process compared to SOHC. Otherwise, Honda would simply assemble the NSX engine on the normal SOHC line, pulling it off near the end for "finishing" unique to NSX performance requirements (balancing, porting, etc). The fact they are spending time and money on a separate hand built line tells me the engine is different enough to warrant the expense.

It makes sense that Honda would build a special engine for a special car regardless of the engine plant that's used.
It would also make sense that whatever the leading valve train technology is, this would be used in the new engine.
As the NSX engine rotates in the opposite direction to the other Honda V6 engines, I don't know how much difference in construction that means, but it would surely make sense to have a separate line to avoid parts fumbles.

Jim

[JoseJA1979]

Hopefully I dont get flamed for this, but oh well. I went to an Acura dealership yesterday inquiring about a TSX wagon for my wife and I started talking to a saleman that I know there (he sold my wife and I a 2011 MDX) about the new NSX. I asked him if he could tell me anything about it and of course he told me no. I said "At least tell me what kind of power its going to make...". after I took a guess and said "...around 350hp" he told me it was going to be around 500hp when it's all said and done and that it will be out in 2014!!! He wouldn't get into any other specifics though. He also said the price range should be around 120k

[Honcho]

Hopefully I dont get flamed for this, but oh well. I went to an Acura dealership yesterday inquiring about a TSX wagon for my wife and I started talking to a saleman that I know there (he sold my wife and I a 2011 MDX) about the new NSX. I asked him if he could tell me anything about it and of course he told me no. I said "At least tell me what kind of power its going to make...". after I took a guess and said "...around 350hp" he told me it was going to be around 500hp when it's all said and done and that it will be out in 2014!!! He wouldn't get into any other specifics though. He also said the price range should be around 120k

We won't flame you but the dealers don't know s$#t. They are typically the last ones in the corporate chain to find out about the car's specs. Acura is still building and devloping the car, so the final specs are simply not yet known. With that said, Acura has targets, which have been discussed by senior Honda execs, i.e., less than 3000 lbs, more than 400 hp with motors, 7-speed DC trans, Ferrari 458 level performance. Your dealer likely is correct about the date- the NSX will be released for sale in 2014 as a 2015 model.

[JD Cross]

We won't flame you but the dealers don't know s$#t. They are typically the last ones in the corporate chain to find out about the car's specs. Acura is still building and devloping the car, so the final specs are simply not yet known. With that said, Acura has targets, which have been discussed by senior Honda execs, i.e., less than 3000 lbs, more than 400 hp with motors, 7-speed DC trans, Ferrari 458 level performance. Your dealer likely is correct about the date- the NSX will be released for sale in 2014 as a 2015 model.

I'm not sure about the Ferrari 458 level of performance comparison.

The 458 has 560 hp and a dry weight of 3042 lbs for an approx ratio of 5.5 lbs per hp.
If the new NSX has a 3.5 liter with 100 hp per liter plus 100 hp total electric boost and 3000 lbs we have a ratio of approx 6.7 lbs per hp.
This gives the 458 about 20 % more hp/lb.

Using our 3 liter torque of 210 ft/lbs as a base we might expect, say, 260 ft lbs of torque from the new engine, and, say, 100 ft/lbs from the electric boost, we could have as much as 360 ft lbs in the new car.
Then it would be up to gearing and rpm to make up the shortfall in hp.

However the 458 has a 5.14 final drive and relatively low gear ratios multiplying the engine torque of 398 ft/lbs considerably and has a 9 k redline to take advantage of the low gearing.The new NSX would have to have a very high redline to compensate for the Ferrari power and gearing setup.

Perhaps we should be looking more at Porsche as the comparable as I don't think the new NSX will be close to the 458

Jim

[Honcho]

I'm not sure about the Ferrari 458 level of performance comparison.

The 458 has 560 hp and a dry weight of 3042 lbs for an approx ratio of 5.5 lbs per hp.
If the new NSX has a 3.5 liter with 100 hp per liter plus 100 hp total electric boost and 3000 lbs we have a ratio of approx 6.7 lbs per hp.
This gives the 458 about 20 % more hp/lb.

Using our 3 liter torque of 210 ft/lbs as a base we might expect, say, 260 ft lbs of torque from the new engine, and, say, 100 ft/lbs from the electric boost, we could have as much as 360 ft lbs in the new car.
Then it would be up to gearing and rpm to make up the shortfall in hp.

However the 458 has a 5.14 final drive and relatively low gear ratios multiplying the engine torque of 398 ft/lbs considerably and has a 9 k redline to take advantage of the low gearing.The new NSX would have to have a very high redline to compensate for the Ferrari power and gearing setup.

Perhaps we should be looking more at Porsche as the comparable as I don't think the new NSX will be close to the 458

Jim

You could be right, Jim. But, it's not all in the numbers. The NSX-R NA2 lapped the ring in 7:56, which is the same time as a Ferrari 360 Challenge car. Looking at the numbers for each car that result should be impossible. Similarly, Ferrari plugged the GT-R's stats into their very expensive simulator, which told them it was impossible for that car to run the ring as fast as it does. They have stated publicly they have no idea how it gets around the course so fast. Therefore, I for one believe the new NSX will stun everyone with what it can do, and a lot more people will be using the word "impossible."

[WingZ]

You could be right, Jim. But, it's not all in the numbers. The NSX-R NA2 lapped the ring in 7:56, which is the same time as a Ferrari 360 Challenge car. Looking at the numbers for each car that result should be impossible. Similarly, Ferrari plugged the GT-R's stats into their very expensive simulator, which told them it was impossible for that car to run the ring as fast as it does. They have stated publicly they have no idea how it gets around the course so fast. Therefore, I for one believe the new NSX will stun everyone with what it can do, and a lot more people will be using the word "impossible."

Hmm I thought it did what did because computers and diff allow it to do what it does ..... yeah real scientific talk

Seriously though Ito already said they weren't going for 458 power as much as we'd like.

[docjohn]

lets hope they don't pull the plug if the global economy takes another dump

[A.S. Motorsport]

They already proved the can spank every one on the nurburgring ring with the HSV in street trim.

[BATMANs]

I wonder which one of the FI NSX guys (like myself) will be the first to skool the new NSX.....