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Thread: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

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    NSXPrime Gold TURBO2GO's Avatar
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    Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    I am getting my KW coilovers installed next week, and the shop is also aligning the car and doing a corner balance.

    I wanted to eventually also do the non-compliance toe links, beam bushings and the front pivot clamps (I guess). I was also told by some of you guys my sway bars are too weak, a front factory R bar and factory 2005 rear bar. I'm a bit confused still as to which bars to get but on Hrants suggestion I was hoping to try to see how my ride/handling is with the new dampers and springs before changing sway bars. Most likely I will go per Billy's suggestion to get the 1.125" Dali trophy bars (although "beyond stiff" doesn't sound comfortable at all).

    My question is this... Which ones of these changes require either the corner balance or alignment to be done again? This is $700 worth of work, and it seems like if an item will cause either to need to be redone, I should do it now. Logic tells me the non compliance toe links should be done RIGHT NOW, and that the beam bushings and the sway bar should be able to be swapped later without changing alignment. But as they say it is better to ask a question and be sure than to assume and make an ASS out of U and ME.

    If it matters, I went with 1000# front and 600# rear springs on the suggestion of billy, docjohn, and cl65captain.

    I also have no idea how much to lower the car. I was thinking 1.5"-1.75? I got the VRH lift so I am not that worried with clearance. Thanks for any guidance and advice.
    Last edited by TURBO2GO; 05-06-2012 at 18:36.
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    Registered User CL65 Captain's Avatar
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    The non comp bushings and toe links have to be done together and should be done before the alignment.

    The sway bars can be done anytime as they dont effect corner balance or alignment.

    I'm -1.25" in the front and I can't go much lower without the 1" dali bar hiting the battery tray (which already is spaced down about a 1/4" ).

    sent from my crappy cell phone.
    Last edited by CL65 Captain; 05-06-2012 at 18:53.

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Jim why do they have to be done together? Are the bushings as important as the toe links? Am I going to notice a difference there at my relatively newb skill level? I think I have to go to a different place for the bushings. This shop may not have the tools. That's one reason I was hoping I could just do the toe links now.
    Last edited by TURBO2GO; 05-06-2012 at 19:16.
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    Registered User CL65 Captain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TURBO2GO View Post
    Jim why do they have to be done together? Are the bushings as important as the toe links? Am I going to notice a difference there at my relatively newb skill level
    they work together. And yes they are very noticeable. The rear feels much more stable. The best way I can describe it, is that the rear yaws and then sets instead of it yawing, squish, set and then squishing the other way as the rubber releases the energy. It is subtle, but it is definately more stable and confidence inspiring.

    sent from my crappy cell phone.

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Ok ill have to figure out a way to do this beforehand then. I can't believe you couldn't lower more than 1.25" though. What's everyone else doing?? Did you do the same in the rear? Do you want to go lower and can't or are you happy there?
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    Registered User CL65 Captain's Avatar
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    I could probably go a tad lower, probably 1.5" but then I'd scrape backing out of my driveway. And a 1.25" drop is plenty. I think it looks perfect without having that slammed look. If you search for H&R spring photos, that's a 1.5" drop.

    Most people aren't running the dali 1" that are slammed.

    sent from my crappy cell phone.
    Last edited by CL65 Captain; 05-06-2012 at 20:27.

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    Registered User CL65 Captain's Avatar
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    sent from my crappy cell phone.
    Last edited by CL65 Captain; 05-06-2012 at 20:26.

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Man that's hellasunk and there's at least a 3 finger gap in there.

    I can't believe the tolerances are so tight that the sway bar is interfering with a 2" drop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CL65 Captain View Post

    I'm -1.25" in the front and I can't go much lower without the 1" dali bar hiting the battery tray (which already is spaced down about a 1/4" ).

    sent from my crappy cell phone.
    I just trimmed each side of the tray for my Dali bar.
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    Registered User CL65 Captain's Avatar
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    A 2" drop is pretty slammed.

    sent from my crappy cell phone.

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Quote Originally Posted by 9doors View Post
    I just trimmed each side of the tray for my Dali bar.
    Which bars do you have?
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    Registered User CL65 Captain's Avatar
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    Dave fyi my problem with the dali 1" isn't the edges its the middle of the bar and the middle of the battery tray (that center 2" strip is raised) and there isn't much I can do as I all ready have spacers between the frame and the battery tray lowering it about a 1/4". As I sit right now, I have about 1/4" clearance. If I drop the car more than 1.5" then the bar sits/rubs on that raised section the battery tray. You can already see where I trimmed the edges on both sides of the battery tray but short of cutting out the middle bump (which I don't want to do since its between the two holes) there's not much I can do. I also don't want to lower the tray anymore than the 1/4" because of my undertray/splitter is right below it.

    The larger trophy bar is going to be completely different as its a straight bar with out the bends like the normal bars so you would have to ask someone who has one.

    sent from my crappy cell phone.
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    Last edited by CL65 Captain; 05-06-2012 at 21:37.

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    1000# in the front is plenty stiff. Try these with the R bar first and go from there. Who knows... you might like it and you can save yourself some $ on sway bars.

    You do not want to do the rear non-comp toe links w/o doing the bushings at the same time. Do them both or neither. The front clamps you can do whenever.

    Jim is right... when you do the toe links you'll need to redo your alignment.

    For corner balance: Unless you make height or weight adjustments you won't need to do another corner balance.

    EDIT TO ADD: if you go thru the effort of a corner balance you might as well have him do it when you're in the car.

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Jim what am I looking at in his picture? Is that from above with the fan up top? I haven't even looked in there does he sway bar run above it below the tray?

    It looks like I can buy a pre-done beam with the bushings installed from SOS for an extra $200 and then send in my core. Is this beam something that is stressed or wears at all? I mean idk if I am getting one off a 1991 car with 150k miles on it and then he gets my 2005 back as a core. How hard is this to install if the bushings are already in there? Any idea? I'm just trying to avoid the two different shops thing... The one doing the alignment, coil install and corner balance can do some mechanical work but they are not nsx specialists. They know suspensions and do quality work so I am comfortable with them just don't think I can buy bushings and say "here press these in". Which means I have to go to one shop and get the bushings and toe links installed, then take it to another shop and have the suspension and alignment and corner balance done.
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    Registered User CL65 Captain's Avatar
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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Quote Originally Posted by TURBO2GO View Post
    Jim what am I looking at in his picture? Is that from above with the fan up top? I haven't even looked in there does he sway bar run above it below the tray?
    Yes, it's above looking down into the engine bay - fan on top. Sway bar runs above the battery tray.

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    I agree with the capt on what to do...but Dave take out your spare and just look around to familiarize yourself with the anatomy.Also jack up you car and look at the rear suspension to understand the basics of the rear geometry and where those noncompliance doohinges go.

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Here is another picture. Note that I had trimmed the battery tray so the Type R doesn't rub on the edges. I have no issues with the center. The Type R has spacers to clear the sway bar and it has good clearance. The battery tray's front two bolts also have about 0.5" spacers and that is how there are no issues with the Type R bar. We also moved up the bracket that holds the radiator hose on the right by about 0.5" (just drilled a hole to secure the bolt) for further assurance that everything has good clearance.

    http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/attach...4&d=1300153320

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Quote Originally Posted by TURBO2GO View Post
    Jim what am I looking at in his picture? Is that from above with the fan up top? I haven't even looked in there does he sway bar run above it below the tray?

    It looks like I can buy a pre-done beam with the bushings installed from SOS for an extra $200 and then send in my core. Is this beam something that is stressed or wears at all? I mean idk if I am getting one off a 1991 car with 150k miles on it and then he gets my 2005 back as a core. How hard is this to install if the bushings are already in there? Any idea? I'm just trying to avoid the two different shops thing... The one doing the alignment, coil install and corner balance can do some mechanical work but they are not nsx specialists. They know suspensions and do quality work so I am comfortable with them just don't think I can buy bushings and say "here press these in". Which means I have to go to one shop and get the bushings and toe links installed, then take it to another shop and have the suspension and alignment and corner balance done.
    I would like to know this answer too.
    *2004 Silverstone/Silver SOLD*

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    Re: Which of these changes affect alignment or corner balance?

    Quote Originally Posted by TURBO2GO View Post
    Which bars do you have?
    Dave, I have the Track Bar, which I think is 1". I also have the Type-R Lower Chassis Bar, which makes my setup interesting...

    Chassis bar is below the tray, Sway bar is above.
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