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SPEC Stage 1 wore out 9K miles!

Joined
21 November 2004
Messages
264
Location
San Diego
I have a factory stock 3.0 95T NSX that my SPEC clutch wore out in only 9K miles! I live in San Diego and drive spirited city traffic, noticed some chattering lately. Originally purchased the later NA2 style lightweight aluminum flywheel and stage 1 disk with cover as a kit. Must admit I did put a hair too much bearing grease on the TO bearing but bell housing looks pretty clean. There looks to be a "fluted" wear patern on the flywheel, don't know what is up with that. Have heard good and bad about SPEC clutches on Prime and other sites basically contradictory opinions at best. What now? Replace disk? Stage 1, 2 or 3? Get another brand of disk? throw away pressure plate and start over? Any help would be appreciated. Haven't heard back from SPEC yet. This sucks!

Stephen
 

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Looking at your pictures it looks like it was subjected to a lot of slipping which in turn warped something and caused the chatter.

Define spirited. Do you do a lot of aggressive starts? Do you slip the clutch a lot when you take off? Do you sit at the light with the car in gear and the clutch in or use the clutch to keep the car from rolling back on a slight incline? All of these can lead to premature clutch wear. If none of these apply then it could be a design problem or installation issue.

Was the clutch free play adjusted when the clutch was installed? If not, it is likely that the clutch may not be fully engaging (ie. slipping) and causing premature wear.
 
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That pressure plate and flywheel look like they took a lot of heat. I have had clutches wear out with less than half the abuse on the pressure plate and flywheel as in your pictures. I would suspect clutch adjustment or aggressive launches as the culprit.
 
SPEC makes garbage. There customer service sucks! Go OEM or go SOS. I have the original SOS sport clutch and love it. Better holding power with stock feel with a butter smooth ingagement.
 
I live in San Diego and there is stop - go traffic and some hills. I do hit the throttle hard excelerating but don't spin the wheels and leave traction control on 90% of the time. The only adjustment is the pedal shaft adjustment to the Master. Other than that it is hydraulic and self adjusting as far as I know.
Pedal still felt great and grabbed better than stock for the 10 months I've been driving the car. SPEC could not give me any waranty but offered a stage 2+ with new cover, bolts and washers and the replacement steel flywheel friction plate for under $1k. Do you think I should go hor the stage 2+?

Looking at your pictures it looks like it was subjected to a lot of slipping which in turn warped something and caused the chatter. SOS sport clutch is $1700 bucks!

Define spirited. Do you do a lot of aggressive starts? Do you slip the clutch a lot when you take off? Do you sit at the light with the car in gear and the clutch in or use the clutch to keep the car from rolling back on a slight incline? All of these can lead to premature clutch wear. If none of these apply then it could be a design problem or installation issue.

Was the clutch free play adjusted when the clutch was installed? If not, it is likely that the clutch may not be fully engaging (ie. slipping) and causing premature wear.
 
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I live in San Diego and there is stop - go traffic and some hills. I do hit the throttle hard excelerating but don't spin the wheels and leave traction control on 90% of the time. The only adjustment is the pedal shaft adjustment to the Master. Other than that is is hydraulic and self adjusting as far as I know.
Pedal still felt great and grabbed better than stock for the 10 months I've been driving the car. SPEC could not give me any waranty but offered a stage 2+ with new cover, bolts and washers and the replacement steel flywheel friction plate for under $1k. Do you think I should go hor the stage 2+?

Since you didn't have satisfactory results with the Spec clutch, might be better to add additional $500 and try the SOS clutch. I just got one, but haven't had the time to install it yet.
 
I live in San Diego and there is stop - go traffic and some hills. I do hit the throttle hard excelerating but don't spin the wheels and leave traction control on 90% of the time. The only adjustment is the pedal shaft adjustment to the Master. Other than that is is hydraulic and self adjusting as far as I know.
Pedal still felt great and grabbed better than stock for the 10 months I've been driving the car. SPEC could not give me any waranty but offered a stage 2+ with new cover, bolts and washers and the replacement steel flywheel friction plate for under $1k. Do you think I should go hor the stage 2+?

I would tell them to shove it, If I were you. They cost me over $3K in labor fixing their screw up. They sent me a second clutch at my cost BTW that had the same issue. My brother put one in his Daily driver not knowing about my previous dealing with SPEC and got a Flywheel that was not true. I know another person put one in his vette and had issue with the flywheel as well. They are garbage! My AUDI sounded like a diesel truck at idle they told me that was normal. Don't do it. Especially if you're keeping the car. Call Chris at SOS.
 
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Ok, OK

I called Jeremy at SPEC and he said I could use the aluminum flywheel with the stock Acura disk and cover. I canceled the Stage 2+ order except for the replacement steel insert and pilot bearing for the aluminum flywheel. Got the Acura 97 OEM disk and cover for $611 no shipping or tax from my local Acura dealer. The SPEC parts do look a little cheasy. SPEC definately uses Chinese/Korean components in their clutches. When you buy from China they always cheap out on quality and materials until you complain then make the products just barely acceptable. Thanks for the advice, will let you know how I make out.

Stephen

I would tell them to shove it, If I were you. They cost me over $3K in labor fixing their screw up. They sent me a second clutch at my cost BTW that had the same issue. My brother put one in his Daily driver not knowing about my previous dealing with SPEC and got a Flywheel that was not true. I know another person put one in his vette and had issue with the flywheel as well. They are garbage! My AUDI sounded like a diesel truck at idle they told me that was normal. Don't do it. Especially if you're keeping the car. Call Chris at SOS.
 
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When you buy from China they always cheap out on quality and materials until you complain then make the products just barely acceptable.
Lesson learned. :wink:
SoS is the better way to go.
 
Ok, OK

I called Jeremy at SPEC and he said I could use the aluminum flywheel with the stock Acura disk and cover. I canceled the Stage 2+ order except for the replacement steel insert and pilot bearing for the aluminum flywheel. Got the Acura 97 OEM disk and cover for $611 no shipping or tax from my local Acura dealer. The SPEC parts do look a little cheasy. SPEC definately uses Chinese/Korean components in their clutches. When you buy from China they always cheap out on quality and materials until you complain then make the products just barely acceptable. Thanks for the advice, will let you know how I make out.

Stephen


I would be willing to bet the flywheel from spec is out of spec. They are known for this. You may have issues. I would go OEM. It's an expensive job to do 3x. Not that you have to. But after my experience others and yours I wouldn't trust a thing they say. They lie to sell there crap product,and then tell you everythings normal when stuff breaks.
 
Drifter,

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I'm in the middle of buying a house right now and have spent $8200 for Escrow fees, inspections, permits and loan application fees. After all that I still do not even have a clear title in my name or an underwrited loan! There is no money to do anything else for now. Have already picked up the Acura disk and cover, waiting for the replacement steel friction surface and pilot bearing to proceed. Did notice that there are no springs in the clutch disk, hub appears to be solid? Haven't had any problems with the flyweel.... yet. Just need the car running for now, having company visiting in two weeks and need two cars.
Should I get a sprung hub now and return OEM disk? Not much else I can do for now.

Stephen

I would be willing to bet the flywheel from spec is out of spec. They are known for this. You may have issues. I would go OEM. It's an expensive job to do 3x. Not that you have to. But after my experience others and yours I wouldn't trust a thing they say. They lie to sell there crap product,and then tell you everythings normal when stuff breaks.
 

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Found some notes on application pros and cons of DUAL Mass flywheels and solid hub disks:

" The dual mass systems are designed to transmit less engine vibration to the driveline, and give a better more car like driving experience. They also reduce some of the jarring and stress on the transmission and remainder of the drivetrain. They work fine as long as the engine remains unmodified and the vehicle is not used/abused beyond manufacturers recommendations.

As soon as you start to increase the engine power over stock, or load the vehicle beyond design parameters, you run into problems. Dual mass flywheels are tuned systems and must be matched to the engine torque curve, engine resonant characteristics, vehicle load curves (including axle ratio/tire size calculations). They work by having a set of springs inserted between two rotating masses (thus dual mass). The springs are sized to soak up some of the resonant vibration from the engine under load conditions. A dual mass fly wheel generally also contains an over torque friction release, so if it gets suddenly overloaded, rather than damage the springs, it slips. This works fine as a safety valve, but if it does it too much it burns up. In short, overloaded they burn up and the springs get destroyed and they are worse than if it were a single mass FW.

The single mass part WILL tend to transmit more engine pulse (vibration) to the drivetrain, and will seem a bit rougher. But it is straight forward to design a single mass flywheel and clutch package for pretty much any engine torque curve and vehicle loading combo you can come up with. Drives more like a TRUCK, but has much better reliability at extreme use levels.

Depending on what you have done to your engine and how you use and load your car, we can supply a single mass flywheel and clutch system properly sized for your car. Ballpark $600 for a mildly massaged engine, more for extreme applications."


Based upon this description, it appears that aggressive driving of the Acura TL is to be avoided lest we begin the destruction of our clutch assemblies.


Drifter,

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I'm in the middle of buying a house right now and have spent $8200 for Escrow fees, inspections, permits and loan application fees. After all that I still do not even have a clear title in my name or an underwrited loan! There is no money to do anything else for now. Have already picked up the Acura disk and cover, waiting for the replacement steel friction surface and pilot bearing to proceed. Did notice that there are no springs in the clutch disk, appears to be solid? Haven't had any problems with the flyweel.... yet. Just need the car running for now, having company visiting in two weeks and need two cars. Not much else I can do for now.

Stephen
 
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Another thing to think about is the master cylinder may have been over adjusted which would actually hold the clutch in and keep it slipping while driving. When changing from the dual mass to the single you should have adjusted that, also the inline valve these cars have can make it slip slightly when shifting quick. Both things together might have caused that.
 
Found a sprung hub replacement disk:

Driving Ambition NSX Clutch Disc

Replacement Clutch Disc for the Comptech/CT Power Grip 1 and the RPS clutch kits.


Can be used to replace the Comptech Power Grip 2 clutch disc also but it is not rated for as high TQ.

Drifter,

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I'm in the middle of buying a house right now and have spent $8200 for Escrow fees, inspections, permits and loan application fees. After all that I still do not even have a clear title in my name or an underwrited loan! There is no money to do anything else for now. Have already picked up the Acura disk and cover, waiting for the replacement steel friction surface and pilot bearing to proceed. Did notice that there are no springs in the clutch disk, appears to be solid? Haven't had any problems with the flyweel.... yet. Just need the car running for now, having company visiting in two weeks and need two cars. Not much else I can do for now.

Stephen
 

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Pchpleno,

Thanks but I was using the stock 95 Slave and master cylinder used with the OEM dual disk. Are they adjustable too?

Stephen

Another thing to think about is the master cylinder may have been over adjusted which would actually hold the clutch in and keep it slipping while driving. When changing from the dual mass to the single you should have adjusted that, also the inline valve these cars have can make it slip slightly when shifting quick. Both things together might have caused that.
 
As far as I know all master cylinders from Honda are adjustable from inside at the pedal. It adjusts pedal free play.
 
That is the disc I have in my RPS. Works fine.

Found a sprung hub replacement disk:

Driving Ambition NSX Clutch Disc

Replacement Clutch Disc for the Comptech/CT Power Grip 1 and the RPS clutch kits.


Can be used to replace the Comptech Power Grip 2 clutch disc also but it is not rated for as high TQ.
 
Sounds like you're on the right track... But for regular bolt on mods I would not suggest anything outside of an OEM clutch.


I have also heard a ton of horror stories with Spec clutches.

I had Larry B do a brand new clutch years ago in my car and it has held up extremely well. I do have bolt ons etc and drive the car alot and it's been perfect.
 
Called Driving Ambition and they did not have the physical dimentions for the disk. I asked them to measure it for me and it came out to 9 and 1/4" by 9.66mm thick, factory is 203mm or 9 and 1/8" and 8.90mm thick. Disc is too large a diameter to use on my Flywheel or factory cover and too thick. I went to PAN Motor sport in Kearney Mesa here in San Diego and spoke to Thomas. He owns three NSXs, a 2002 for himself, an automatic for his wife and a track car. He has sold or used just about every aftermarket part sold for the NSX and other rice rockets so he is the man! He told me keep the factory solid hub disk and pressure plate. He was shocked by the poor quality of the SPEC flywheel and clutch disc. This got me to take a closer look.
The SPEC clutch components were manufactured out of spec! Looking closely at disk compared to factory it is easy to see the disk is poor material and smaller than the flywheel and cover (see picture). The real problem is the unparallel friction surface to the crankshaft mating flange! It is several thousandths off! the woble sheared the disk as it grabed and you can see this in the pictures below. On the one side of friction surface you can see original manufacturing grind marks and on the other you see disc forced to cut the plate straight, grooving surface! This explains the wierd fluted wear pattern on the flywheel. I wonder how well this thing is ballanced? What a pile of crap! SPEC dumps this on the public then claims "8K worn out setup is not unusual and considered normal wear" This explains why they can't stand behind the garbage they sell and give everybody such a hard time with warranty claims! Now I will have to have the flywheel re-machined for defects that were shipped to me new! Lesson learned, Go with SOS or OEM! SPEC seems to stand for (Sold Poor Exalted Crap)

That is the disc I have in my RPS. Works fine.
 

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Up and running!

Thomas from PAM motor sport knows what he is talking about. He said the solid hub would work fine. I rebuilt the SPEC flywheel with new friction surface and pilot bearing then installed Acura 97 NSX disk and cover. Was a risk I had to take at this time. Got it all back together Monday after work. The visiting freinds arrived the next day and they used the truck while I drove the NSX to work. What a difference! absolutely butter smooth engagement, no shudder or vibration. I cannot really feel the exact pedal travel spot where clutch grabs and makes the car lurch. The trans bearing noises I heard before have disappeared and trans shifts so easy. Pedal pressure is only 2/3rds the previous setup! The car drives like a different animal altogether. It has become a "civilized" NSX experience turning my ride into a touring vehicle. Not sure everybody here would like that result but it is a different feel especially in city driving, less stress for sure. The light flywheel definately helps shifting but when starting from a stand still requires 200 or more extra RPM before dumping clutch. Overall I like the new feel.
 

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Up and running!

Thomas from PAM motor sport knows what he is talking about. He said the solid hub would work fine. I rebuilt the SPEC flywheel with new friction surface and pilot bearing then installed Acura 97 NSX disk and cover. Was a risk I had to take at this time. Got it all back together Monday after work. The visiting freinds arrived the next day and they used the truck while I drove the NSX to work. What a difference! absolutely butter smooth engagement, no shudder or vibration. I cannot really feel the exact pedal travel spot where clutch grabs and makes the car lurch. The trans bearing noises I heard before have disappeared and trans shifts so easy. Pedal pressure is only 2/3rds the previous setup! The car drives like a different animal altogether. It has become a "civilized" NSX experience turning my ride into a touring vehicle. Not sure everybody here would like that result but it is a different feel especially in city driving, less stress for sure. The light flywheel definately helps shifting but when starting from a stand still requires 200 or more extra RPM before dumping clutch. Overall I like the new feel.

Glad to hear you got it all worked out. :cool:
 
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