Later-style lost motion assembly for 1991-1999 NSX engines

greenberet · 16 September 2012

Just as a heads up, Honda now sell later-style lost motion assemblies (LMAs) for earlier NSX engines.

Up until 1999, NSXs had oil-filled LMAs that start to stick over time, causing the engine to make tappety noises even if the valves are adjusted properly. For the model year 2000, Honda redesigned the LMAs to be more robust. Unfortunately, they made the dimensions of the LMAs slightly different so you can’t just drop the later LMAs into earlier engines.

Honda have now designed later-style LMAs for 1991-1999 engines. You can find them in the parts catalog with the number 14820-PCB-305 and the list price here in Europe is EUR 12.06 apiece. The drawing in the parts catalog shows the LMAs as still looking like the old oil-filled 14820-PR7-A01, but they don’t. 14820-PCB-305 is a newer-style LMA for older engines.

britlude · 16 September 2012

fitted the new style to my '92 auto, they can be done without removing the engine....

here's my writeup

http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/showthread.php?9995-My-epic-engine-service!!!-Picture-heavy!!!

E-Nough Logic · 16 September 2012

Looking back do you think it would have been better to just pull the engine? It seems like a lot of work in very tough areas. I like the LMA video. It interesting how much more buildup is on the rear cylinder head. I guess the oil has a harder time getting back to the oil pan from the rear or something.

goldNSX · 16 September 2012

greenberet said:
Just as a heads up, Honda now sell later-style lost motion assemblies (LMAs) for earlier NSX engines.

Up until 1999, NSXs had oil-filled LMAs that start to stick over time, causing the engine to make tappety noises even if the valves are adjusted properly. For the model year 2000, Honda redesigned the LMAs to be more robust. Unfortunately, they made the dimensions of the LMAs slightly different so you can’t just drop the later LMAs into earlier engines.

Honda have now designed later-style LMAs for 1991-1999 engines. You can find them in the parts catalog with the number 14820-PCB-305 and the list price here in Europe is EUR 12.06 apiece. The drawing in the parts catalog shows the LMAs as still looking like the old oil-filled 14820-PR7-A01, but they don’t. 14820-PCB-305 is a newer-style LMA for older engines.

Just tracking this thread back on the original track...

Very nice find. So you got them from HONDA Europe and got the newer version? Did you compare them to the old version, esp. their height? These are not the ones used in the S2000 which are shorter?

Interestingly, their price is lower in the EU than in the US which is about $25 discounted each.

L_RAO · 16 September 2012

That is good info. Thanks.

How long has this "newer" LMA been available?

Is this the product that the SoS offering is directly competing against, or is the SoS product an alternative to the "older" LMAs?

http://scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/LMA/

As an owner of an "older" NSX that is (eventually) going to go to high lift camshafts, I'm curious as to which one will go on my shopping list.

greenberet · 16 September 2012

Yes, I bought them at my local Honda dealership, who ordered them from Honda Europe. S2000s use the part number 14820-PCX-003, not the 14820-PCB-305 used in the NSX.

Regarding the height, the old oil-filled lost motion assembly Honda installed in my NSX in 1991 at the factory is 41.72mm high and the new-style LMA is 41.67mm high. Here’s a comparison:

Edit: I'm not sure how long Honda has had these new-style LMAs available for older NSXs. I was aware of SoS's before I knew about Honda's. When I called SoS about their LMAs they told me they bought OEM LMAs for later NSXs and added a shim to make them fit in earlier NSXs. Maybe Honda liked the idea so much that they started making an OEM version of SoS's part.

syndicate · 16 September 2012

hybrdthry911 said:
Looking back do you think it would have been better to just pull the engine? It seems like a lot of work in very tough areas. I like the LMA video. It interesting how much more buildup is on the rear cylinder head. I guess the oil has a harder time getting back to the oil pan from the rear or something.

I did some LMAs for a fellow prime member and it didn't take that long at all to do. I did timing belt, water pump and LMAs all without pulling the engine or removing any motor mounts (except passenger top mount) and no motor tilting or angling.

goldNSX · 16 September 2012

greenberet said:
Yes, I bought them at my local Honda dealership, who ordered them from Honda Europe. S2000s use the part number 14820-PCX-003, not the 14820-PCB-305 used in the NSX.

Regarding the height, the old oil-filled lost motion assembly Honda installed in my NSX in 1991 at the factory is 41.72mm high and the new-style LMA is 41.67mm high.

The S2000 are a tad too short. That's why the shim was needed until Honda brought up the new design for the NSX too.
I've seen on the SoS-website about a year ago that they've changed the design of their kit, the shim is now integrated in the bottom of the spring. It don't think it makes a difference, shim integrated or not. I think SoS now sells the new Honda parts.

That's not bad for a manufacturer to revise a part after 7 the has been sold last. That's what I always thought about the Japanese car firms: if they recognise a problem an engineer is looking after it and improves it. This is very contrary to the arrogant german car manufacturers...

Kaz-kzukNA1 · 16 September 2012

Hi all at NSX Prime.
This is Kaz at NSX Club of Britain (nsxcb.co.uk) and although I have been following this site for many years, this is my first post here.

You may find related information in my thread Lost Motion Assy, LMA and some other information in my NSX Technical and Service Information Index thread.

You can also find some of LMA related service by using the search tag ‘lma’ through my Blog on NSXCB.

One example here; http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/blog.php?1811-Kaz-kzukNA1&s=&tag=lma

Thank you.

Kaz

greenberet · 16 September 2012

Yeah, it's nice of Honda to improve a spare part even after the car is out of production. It would also be nice of them to also still offer ivory-colored interior parts for my NSX, manual steering gear boxes, replacement bushings for the passenger side of the manual steering gear box, etc.

Edit: Kaz, it's good to see you post here - welcome! Your posts and blog at the NSXCB are, of course, how I learned that Honda was offering new-style LMAs for older NSXs. Saying that your NSX Technical and Service Information Index and Blog contain "some other information" is a bit of an understatement. Your posts and blog are the best and richest source of information about NSXs that I know of.

nikey22 · 16 September 2012

Thank you KAZ, its an honour to have you here.
You are the 'Larry B' of the European NSX world!

davidf · 16 September 2012

Id love to know what the noise sounds like. I have had a ticking louder than normal IMO and when reved a bit it goes right away but once idling, it comes back after 8'10 seconds. That does'nt sound like a lifter tapping to me, especially if it takes a few seconds to come back.

Of course it's been doing this for quite some time since I really figured it was normal. Car only has 75,000.

latzke · 22 July 2013

goldNSX said:
Interestingly, their price is lower in the EU than in the US which is about $25 discounted each.

In the UK, 14820-PCB-305 (1991-1999 NSX) and 14820-PCB-003 (2000-2005 NSX) have the same price.
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_part_number_search_A10.php?partdes=14820-PCB-305 (£13.50, roughly $17.50)
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_part_number_search_A10.php?partdes=14820-PCB-003 (£13.50, roughly $17.50)

In the US, they have a vastly different price:
http://www.oemacuraparts.com/oem-part/acura/motion-assy-lost/14820-pcb-305 ($35.40 list / $26.20 price)
http://www.oemacuraparts.com/oem-part/acura/motion-assy-lost/14820-pcb-003 ($12.33 list / $9.12 price)

I think they are in essence the same core part, just one comes with a shim...

...so a literal copy of what SOS has been offering.

At the time of this writing:
A set of 12 14820-PCB-305 bought in the USA = $314
A set of 12 14820-PCB-305 bought in the UK, shipped to my door = 160EUR ($210)
The SOS LMA set = $175 + shipping ($185 total for me)

Winner = SOS:
http://scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/LMA/

(Pic is from here: http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p=34364633&postcount=39)

RagingAngel · 27 July 2013

Skunk2 is also an option.

http://store.skunk2.com/engine-tuning/lost-motion-assembly-lma.html

Juice · 27 July 2013

RagingAngel said:
Skunk2 is also an option.

http://store.skunk2.com/engine-tuning/lost-motion-assembly-lma.html

I find this odd as Skunk2 has never, in any fashion, ever supported the NSX. I do understand how these LMAs are not exclusive to the C1, but you can't even search for the C1 using their web page. I'm surprised that you were able to find these.

latzke · 28 July 2013

I suspect most of these (SOS, Skunk2, other aftermarket, possibly even OEM) originate from Endyn. This suspicion is very speculative - I really have nothing to support this, just Endyn's history with Honda, that they used to make or at least sell this thing direct (and now will not sell direct, but only as part of engine builds and I'm guessing to other re-sellers). Regardless, SoS certainly seems to be the go-to retail source these days for NSX, S2000 and other folks.

etang789 · 13 January 2017

I have been looking online, many places sells them in a set of 8 for B-Series engine. I'm wondering is the C30 LMA parts exactly the same as B-Series and not have to worry about order the wrong one.

dablackgoku1234 · 16 January 2017

What's the price for 8 B-series LMAs? SOS sells the full kit for $175 USD and no need to question compatibility.

https://www.scienceofspeed.com/inde...lost-motion-assembly-lma-kit-nsx-1991-99.html

Figgy · 10 January 2023

I'm looking to purchase the LMA kit but I notice that SOS's kit is $279, vs Mita which is $120 but it doesn't seem like there is really any difference between the two? Is the Price inflation just part of the "NSX" tax now haha?

latzke · 10 January 2023

Figgy said:
I'm looking to purchase the LMA kit but I notice that SOS's kit is $279, vs Mita which is $120 but it doesn't seem like there is really any difference between the two? Is the Price inflation just part of the "NSX" tax now haha?

After Mita twice poorly packaged an item and it arrived damaged and refused to do anything to make things right (so I’m out hundreds of dollars) I refuse to do any more business with them. A lot of what you can get from them (OEM Honda parts) you can get cheaper from Amayama, who does a better job packaging things and is also better re shipping costs and gets items on their way faster. A lesson I learned the hard way.

Honda 14820-PCB-305 (14820PCB305) LOST MOTION ASSEMBLY

Honda 14820-PCB-305 (14820PCB305) LOST MOTION ASSEMBLY. New & genuine Japanese car parts. Fast shipping. Low prices. Request a quote from Amayama Trading Co. online.

www.amayama.com

And sometimes I just pay the SOS tax because I know they’ve done their research which saves me from having to do any. Time isn’t free. And there is value in having/supporting a legit vendor that specializes in the NSX. In this case I suspect SOS’s price is higher because the part costs a good bit more from Honda America vs from Honda Japan. Buying from SOS saves over buying from Acura dealer, so they are relatively cheap unless/until these Japanese sources come into the picture.

Figgy · 10 January 2023

latzke said:
After Mita twice poorly packaged an item and it arrived damaged and refused to do anything to make things right (so I’m out hundreds of dollars) I refuse to do any more business with them. A lot of what you can get from them (OEM Honda parts) you can get cheaper from Amayama, who does a better job packaging things and is also better re shipping costs and gets items on their way faster. A lesson I learned the hard way.

Honda 14820-PCB-305 (14820PCB305) LOST MOTION ASSEMBLY

Honda 14820-PCB-305 (14820PCB305) LOST MOTION ASSEMBLY. New & genuine Japanese car parts. Fast shipping. Low prices. Request a quote from Amayama Trading Co. online.

www.amayama.com

And sometimes I just pay the SOS tax because I know they’ve done their research which saves me from having to do any. Time isn’t free. And there is value in having/supporting a legit vendor that specializes in the NSX. In this case I suspect SOS’s price is higher because the part costs a good bit more from Honda America vs from Honda Japan. Buying from SOS saves over buying from Acura dealer, so they are relatively cheap unless/until these Japanese sources come into the picture.

Ah that makes sense, Thank you! I’m doing an order from Amayama for the jdm gears and various other parts so i’ll just add those on since it’s a big order already.

MITA Motorsports · 24 January 2023

latzke said:
After Mita twice poorly packaged an item and it arrived damaged and refused to do anything to make things right (so I’m out hundreds of dollars) I refuse to do any more business with them. A lot of what you can get from them (OEM Honda parts) you can get cheaper from Amayama, who does a better job packaging things and is also better re shipping costs and gets items on their way faster. A lesson I learned the hard way.

Honda 14820-PCB-305 (14820PCB305) LOST MOTION ASSEMBLY

Honda 14820-PCB-305 (14820PCB305) LOST MOTION ASSEMBLY. New & genuine Japanese car parts. Fast shipping. Low prices. Request a quote from Amayama Trading Co. online.

www.amayama.com

And sometimes I just pay the SOS tax because I know they’ve done their research which saves me from having to do any. Time isn’t free. And there is value in having/supporting a legit vendor that specializes in the NSX. In this case I suspect SOS’s price is higher because the part costs a good bit more from Honda America vs from Honda Japan. Buying from SOS saves over buying from Acura dealer, so they are relatively cheap unless/until these Japanese sources come into the picture.

Craig, you ordered a very flimsy piece and we even sent you a replacement for free to try to get the item to you safely but because of transit, it couldn't arrive without any creases.

latzke · 24 January 2023

MITA Motorsports said:
Craig, you ordered a very flimsy piece and we even sent you a replacement for free to try to get the item to you safely but because of transit, it couldn't arrive without any creases.

I paid for that part plus expensive shipping (you used Fedex instead of EMS for initial shipping, for reasons unknown to me) but I never received an undamaged part nor a (partial or full) refund. Both times you failed to appropriately package the item, which is the reason it arrived damaged, yet you shift blame to me for ordering a flimsy part. A reputable company would provide a refund in these circumstances, but you will not.

Later-style lost motion assembly for 1991-1999 NSX engines

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