Mystery motor problem, code P1399

The compression test result is great news. Changing the plugs would be pretty simple as you had them out for the compression test. You can try moving a coil / injector from the cylinder that was claiming misfire to a different cylinder and see if it remains to do it or if it has a cel for the other cylinder.

I was just thinking the factory injectors are peak and hold and there is an injector driver/ resister box in tge engine bay near tge fuel filter iirc. If that is a possible solution I have one sitting here I can send you to try out.

Hi, Chuck

I've read your posts with interest. Here's a thought: Can you get your hands on an OBD2 scanner that supports freeze frame data and real-time live engine data? I have one, and it is invaluable at deciphering riddles like you are experiencing. Your on-board computer may well have the answers you are looking for locked away in it's memory. Too bad you don't still live in Albq... I would loan you mine!

Philippe

JD Cross said:

I had the same problem on my 91 after a washing/detailing weekend in 2004. Turned out that my igniter went goodbye.Replaced and no problems for many years now

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Did you try a new igniter like the quoted post suggested? He says he had the same problem and it solved it.

The fact that the problem occurred suddenly and without warning, means that the issue is probably electrical related. Of course it's not clogged cats or exhaust, unless someone jammed something in there while you were in the grocery store. Both would have been a very gradual occurrence. Bad fuel seems unlikely unless you had just filled up. A fuel filter would also gradually get clogged, unless you had some really dirty fuel. Any EGR moving parts or valves that you can check/replace? It could potentially be the timing belt, but this seems unlikely with such low mileage.
Concerning the exhaust smelling worse than normal, a misfire will cause the car to run much richer.

Rogue MotorSports said:

The compression test result is great news. Changing the plugs would be pretty simple as you had them out for the compression test. You can try moving a coil / injector from the cylinder that was claiming misfire to a different cylinder and see if it remains to do it or if it has a cel for the other cylinder.

I was just thinking the factory injectors are peak and hold and there is an injector driver/ resister box in tge engine bay near tge fuel filter iirc. If that is a possible solution I have one sitting here I can send you to try out.

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Well, I've officially eliminated the plugs and coils as the source of the problem. I have another bunny trail to run down (ignition module), and then I might take you up on your gracious offer!

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psbnsx said:

Hi, Chuck

I've read your posts with interest. Here's a thought: Can you get your hands on an OBD2 scanner that supports freeze frame data and real-time live engine data? I have one, and it is invaluable at deciphering riddles like you are experiencing. Your on-board computer may well have the answers you are looking for locked away in it's memory. Too bad you don't still live in Albq... I would loan you mine!

Philippe

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Hi Philippe! I really wish I was in ABQ right now.......having you guys around to help me troubleshoot would be a huge thing right now. My OBD reader is just a simple one that kicks out codes to me, not one that does anything with engine data or any cool stuff like that. After this episode, though, I am seriously contemplating investing in one though. Any recommendations on a good one to get?

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chussey said:

Did you try a new igniter like the quoted post suggested? He says he had the same problem and it solved it.

The fact that the problem occurred suddenly and without warning, means that the issue is probably electrical related. Of course it's not clogged cats or exhaust, unless someone jammed something in there while you were in the grocery store. Both would have been a very gradual occurrence. Bad fuel seems unlikely unless you had just filled up. A fuel filter would also gradually get clogged, unless you had some really dirty fuel. Any EGR moving parts or valves that you can check/replace? It could potentially be the timing belt, but this seems unlikely with such low mileage.
Concerning the exhaust smelling worse than normal, a misfire will cause the car to run much richer.

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I have a couple of ignition modules on order right now that will hopefully be here by the end of the week. I'll update again once I get a chance to swap them out.

I did already remove and clean out the EGR valve. The car threw a single EGR code (P1410 I think) at the beginning of all of this, but I haven't seen one in a long time. It's really just throwing a basic P1399 with a flashing check engine light any time I apply a load to the motor.

Hi, Chuck

As I understand it (from talking to mechanics), a blinking CEL means imminent danger to the cats from unburned fuel entering the cats. Left untreated the cats will be destroyed. A misfire, as you know, results in unburned fuel passing thru the cylinder and into the exhaust. I guess you need to determine which cylinder(s) are involved. I would think a tuner shop in Tucson would have a scanner which could tell you this. Driving the car to the tuner would be dangerous for your car. Perhaps you could rent a scanner from somewhere?

I have an Innova 3140b scan tool. It gives the freeze frame engine data that caused the CEL to come on. It also allows you look at real time engine data such as fuel trims, ignition advance, and lots of other things. But my scanner falls somewhere between your basic code reader like you have and the very high end scanners that some shops have. Try to find a high end scanner.

Hope this helps!

Philippe and your Road Runner pals in NM

as Larry B once told me..blinking cel bad.

Update:
It's not the ignition module, either.

The troubleshooting continues. PM'd Rogue Motorsports for the injector/driver resistor box. Gonna have to find someone with a higher end OBDII scanner that I can borrow, too.

This will sound simplistic but we know we need three things to run an engine.
Spark, compression and correct fuel/air mixture.
You have identified that each cylinder has a spark so it's not electrical.
That leaves compression and fuel.
You have eliminated compression by your test.
This leaves only fuel related issues to explore.

Any chance you've got any water in the fuel or someone mistakenly dropped a bit of diesel in the tank?
How about the sensors on the the intake side? Any wires unplugged, cracked or unplugged vacuum hoses?
Fuel pump operating okay?

if you can't find any fuel related issues then best to take the car to an Acura dealer for a full diagnosis.
This might be a new problem in a component that Honda needs to sort out. A TSB type issue.

JD Cross said:

Any chance you've got any water in the fuel or someone mistakenly dropped a bit of diesel in the tank?
How about the sensors on the the intake side? Any wires unplugged, cracked or unplugged vacuum hoses?
Fuel pump operating okay?

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Thanks for the advice!

The problem started right at about 50 miles since the last fill up. I filled it with gas at a place that I always use and have never had a problem before this. Tucson isn't a very humid place, which would lend me to think that there isn't a lot of water that would end up in the fuel. I siphoned off a couple of gallons out of the tank through the banjo bolt on the fuel filter after I installed a hose with a fuel pressure gauge onto it.

I cleaned the heck out of the throttle body, EGR valve, and as much of the inside of the intake manifold as I could get with a rag after spraying cleaner around. I suppose I can be more thorough with unplugging sensors and seeing if it changes anything, but you'd think that there would be some other code that accompanies the P1399. That's the part that makes this so frustrating.

There are no hoses or wires disconnected or anything that sticks out right now as abnormal or unusual. I'm going to go over everything again, though, once I get back under the hood tomorrow night. The fuel pressure gauge reads within specs, both at idle and accelerating.

if you can't find any fuel related issues then best to take the car to an Acura dealer for a full diagnosis.
This might be a new problem in a component that Honda needs to sort out. A TSB type issue.

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I really hope that I can figure it out myself. Their troubleshooting will probably take them down many of the same roads I've already been down, only with me paying $$$$$$ for it. That being said, though, I'm rapidly approaching the point where there isn't any more troubleshooting I can do on my own.

Perhaps a dealer may be able to run the engine with diagnostics hooked up giving you real time data. That might pinpoint the trouble and be cost effective.
Can you talk to the service manager at your local dealer, explain what you've got and what you've done, and see if he can suggest something?
You've put in a lot of time and trouble and maybe the dealer would be sympathetic instead of greedy??

..........And off to the dealership she goes. I'll update with results.

Viper Driver said:

..........And off to the dealership she goes. I'll update with results.

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I've got fingers crossed that you get good info at a fair price and the dealer goodwills the fix

Would you believe it was an injector on #4 that wasn't quite doing what it was supposed to? It wasn't bad enough to trip a specific code, but it was bad enough to cause a misfire/P1399 code. Anyways, it's only going to cost me some money for diagnosis, and that's it! And I get to drive her home from the dealer in a few minutes. All is good now.

hurrah.....in some cases a good dealer is very helpful.

Viper Driver said:

Would you believe it was an injector on #4 that wasn't quite doing what it was supposed to? It wasn't bad enough to trip a specific code, but it was bad enough to cause a misfire/P1399 code. Anyways, it's only going to cost me some money for diagnosis, and that's it! And I get to drive her home from the dealer in a few minutes. All is good now.

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That's double good news.
Sounds like the dealer treated you decently and you got the info you needed for a fix.
Interesting that it turned out to be a fuel related issue

Well, she's back in the shop again. Completely died on the way to work this morning.

That sucks. Keep us posted Chuck.

Viper Driver said:

Well, she's back in the shop again. Completely died on the way to work this morning.

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More info? What happened, exactly..

Sorry to hear that this is not fixed. Reading through all your posts gave me severe deja-vu.

Virtually all your symptoms are the same as what I had when we discovered (eventually) that my harmonic balancer had come apart and chewed through the timing belt cover.

It's just my online diagnosis, and you seem much more mechanically oriented than I am, but the HB is one more possibility that you can Investigate and eliminate.

Mine was caught in time, so there was no damage, all it cost me was a TB & HB replacement.

All is well, it was my screw-up this time. I accidentally pinched the #6 coil pack wires when putting the coil covers back on. The wires shorted out once the car had warmed up, causing one of the main fuses to blow. That basically shut off any spark capability.

The NSX tech fixed the wires, and the car runs good as new.

Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions. This was a strange one, that ultimately was caused by something simple. Hopefully, others can learn a bit from this.

Hi, Chuck

It's obvious to me your car is homesick. Why don't you add a handful of Hatch green chile to the gas tank? Or better yet... bring your car back here for treatment at 10,000 Waves in Santa Fe. Seriously, I hope this all gets resolved soon.

Philippe and the Road Runners

Viper Driver said:

All is well, it was my screw-up this time. I accidentally pinched the #6 coil pack wires when putting the coil covers back on. The wires shorted out once the car had warmed up, causing one of the main fuses to blow. That basically shut off any spark capability.
The NSX tech fixed the wires, and the car runs good as new.

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Good news at last!
I'm curious to learn what you did about the original problem with the #4 injector that was acting up. Was it poor wiring or needed reseating or?
I gather after you worked on #4 injector the wiring for #6 coil got messed etc.