louis vuitton Cup

I don't see a thread on this. But I just watched them yesterday for the first time and was impressed. They are awesome machines; The F-1 of sailing. Comparing them to traditional sailboats is like comparing an Adrian Newey "chassis" to mom's mini-van.

As a casual observer and ex-Hobie cat sailor, I listened to the analysts and gathered that Oracle has all too frequently given the race away with mistakes (inexperience?); either tactical or crew performance. And with them playing the time out card yesterday, it suggests they are desperate and hopelessly lost.

Any one more knowledgeable or following closely who thinks they have a chance to recover and pull this out? They would have to dominate here forward to win, no?

I think the America's Cup is going back down under. ORACLE just doesn't have the legs to keep up. I remember seeing the trimaran in San Diego in 08 and it was so radical i didn'r realize what it was.
I've follwed the AC racing as a casual fan since the 90's and the put F1 to shame. The rules are so vague and the egos even bigger.
Miner
PS The Louis Vitton cup is for the winner of the clallengers who compete to face the defending champs. The NZ team won the challenger series to compete against Oracle for the America's Cup.

Let me just say this Team NZ ROCK.
these boats are impressive we lost race 1 today nearly tipped the damn boat over which would have been the end of our campaign so its is now 6-0 to the Kiwi boat but we were about to smash them in the seond race when it got called off for high winds.
so its all on tomorrow

Having been a competitive sailor for over 20 years, I've learned to like boats that are set up to sail easily. This makes for fewer mistakes when executing maneuvers ie. tacks and jibes. It looks to me like Team USA's boat is overly complicated as compared to Team NZ. The two most noticeable examples; the NZ boat has a self tacking jib and the positioning of the wenches so that the grinders can get from one side of the boat to the other more easily which makes for a cleaner maneuver. Plus the NZ boat is noticeably faster to weather. I've raced in the bay and it is a tricky place to race tactically because of the wind vs current variables. Local knowledge (which Team USA has) of the area should be an advantage but sometimes it isn't. Locals seem to work the current too much and forget those times when the wind has the advantage. Team NZ appears to realize this from what I've seen. I think the technology of cats is cool. But, to me cat racing lacks some of the tactics that the old monohulls had and they are becoming more like airplanes than sailboats. Also, the boats are now crewed by Rock Stars/mercenaries from other countries. For example, Team USA has a very capable Aussie for a skipper and much of the crew. I don't feel the nationalistic pride from them in this that I witnessed in the days of Turner, Connor and Melges. Today it looks like it's just another race and they are failing miserably to be competitive. The NZ skipper said earlier in the week that they plan to take "The Cup" to where it is more appreciated. There is some truth in what he says but, remember the are a lot fewer sailors per capita in the US, and the rest of the world for that matter, as compared to NZ. And the sport at this level, has lost touch with reality and relationship to the average sailor in the US due to the Rock Star/mercenary syndrome and the irrationally high cost of these AC campaigns. Barring a catastrophic mechanical failure, we will be watching the next AC in the very early hours of the morning live or pre-recorded later in the day. This is my unsolicited analysis of the event.

well said, pretty much sums it up, were mad on boating down here and Auckland is a fun place to be when there is Americas Cup action going on it definitely does not get lost in amongst other events like there.
I must admit it has taken a while here to get behind this new design and while everyone appreciates the tech that goes into it, it just doesnt seem to have the suspense as past events with the monohulls
ten minutes to the first race today go Team NZ!

Looks like the Port entry at the start gives you an advantage would be good to get two races in today to get a good comparison but Oracle looking real good

The new formula is a bit less than ideal, at least from my idea of a sailing yacht. I remember the winged monohull in the early 90s. Not to mention actual sails instead of the wing-sails!
Miner

Miner i did agree with that sentiment entirely until i saw those last two races then i started changing my mind, those boats are just amazing 2 to 3 times faster than the wind...
With the way the old monohulls were there was suspense as either boat could do something different on different sides of the course and you wouldnt know who was really in front until they came together at the 'mark' however it took forever to get to said mark. You sometimes had more fun watching the grass grow unless you were out on the course on a hospitality boat and then it was fun because you had a fully stocked bar and food while taking a day off work to watch sail boats, and there was national pride on the line so it made it about us vs them rather than just two teams.

Too windy today for racing apparently, there are no more lay days so when they do get on the water it is two races a day until its all over no more breaks.
This could give Team NZ an advantage again for these reasons;
we have a postponment card we can use, Oracle does not they used theirs already so any breakages they will have to race as is or forfeit while we can go an fix the boat without being docked a point.
the tides are changing again to where they were at the start of the racing which suited our boat better in the 'smoother' conditions, we won 5 straight with that tide although Oracle has caught up.
Team NZ have been doing some aero work on the boat so it is meant to be faster again maybe we learnt something from Oracle that they did to make them faster? or maybe they have been reading Prime and seen the diffuser and front splitter threads

I did some laser and force five racing 30-35 years ago ...wow talk about technology driving the formula today...I don't know what to think about these foilcats.....can they call it sailing anymore....more like winging it

yeah mate, NZ is a bit bonkers on boating not just sailing hard not to be when no matter where you live it is only a matter of minutes or maximum a couple of hours from the coast either side.
But even we are going is this yachting or something else they are terming it 'foiling' i think i heard they hit 47 knots in them the other day i think thats like 87kph or approx 54mph damn thats fast in a sail boat but with only those foils touching the water there is no drag.
the whole country well nearly anyway will be watching TV tomorrow morning 8am to see if team NZ can do it, if they can party time down under!

I agree ,you folks are all about this race..and thats a good thing..nothing bad about national pride!

No matter who wins, I've lost interest in the AC air races. These are barely boats. Yes they are blazing fast and technologically advanced. But as an average sailor it bares little resemblance to the sport I love and can afford. If I remember my match racing tactics and those monohull races, when they split tacks, the boat in front usually lost. You always cover. I have raced cats and they are fast and fun. But the one with the least tacks to the lay line wins. So tactics are few. I agree the old races were too long though. The Deed of Gift needs to be adjusted to put some parameters on cost. And they need to return to something that actually resembles a sailboat or a cat with sails. And the teams should be represented by their own countrymen/women. I won't hold my breath though. I just think the AC in its current configuration is a poor promoter of the sport in this country. As they say it's not over until the fat lady sings. I think she's warming up and about to take the stage. A few days after the attached picture was taken NZ Black Magic completed its sweep of Dennis Conner and Paul Cayard. Dejavue all over again.

Nice!
I was in San Diego for work back in 92 (I think) during what (seems to me) was the hey day, at least here in the states. The all women US team, the boat that snapped in half, a USN Aircraft Carrier coming out of the fog, legal challenges etc.
I also remember watching the races late at night on Speed Vision in the late 90s. For some reason watching a 3 hour sail boat race didn't seem bad, just part of the business of racing.
Miner

One to go boys and that Cup is coming Down Under.
I think all the comments above are valid, i think if we win this thing you will see some changes to make it more of a nationality thing and to get costs under control but are the monohulls coming back i dont think so but maybe smaller ones with more regular type sails not those wings.
that way they might get more boats/countries involved like those good old regattas

Miner said:

Nice!
I was in San Diego for work back in 92 (I think) during what (seems to me) was the hey day, at least here in the states. The all women US team, the boat that snapped in half, a USN Aircraft Carrier coming out of the fog, legal challenges etc.
I also remember watching the races late at night on Speed Vision in the late 90s. For some reason watching a 3 hour sail boat race didn't seem bad, just part of the business of racing.
Miner

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Looked on Wiki and I was there in 95 when all that happened.

92 was a great series obviously from our point of view the next one was better when we took the Cup in 95, scoreline was 5-0 the country really enjoyed thrashing Dennis Connor and Co.
we lost race 1 this morning still one to win but we have Starboard entry again today which means it will bet tough to win so maybe it will have to wait until tomorrow for our chance to win it, Oracle is looking fast everywhere now so this is not over yet

I'm gonna miss this when it's done

scammy said:

we lost race 1 this morning still one to win but we have Starboard entry again today which means it will bet tough to win so maybe it will have to wait until tomorrow for our chance to win it, Oracle is looking fast everywhere now so this is not over yet

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I can't get enough of watching those things up on foils. And Oracle may be going down but not without a fight. That was an impressive win today. The hook at the start was surprising. Not sure how Barker got trapped but Spithill looked like a genius.

scammy said:

92 was a great series obviously from our point of view the next one was better when we took the Cup in 95, scoreline was 5-0 the country really enjoyed thrashing Dennis Connor and Co.
we lost race 1 this morning still one to win but we have Starboard entry again today which means it will bet tough to win so maybe it will have to wait until tomorrow for our chance to win it, Oracle is looking fast everywhere now so this is not over yet

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1983 -2000. Sailing was at it's height in the USA then. And the boats had sails and keels. Sail handling and tactics ruled the out come. Not who entered the race course first and no air traffic control for a race committee. I have to admit the cats are awesome machines and it would be a thrill to fly one. But, I just can't make myself call them boats. I guess I'm too old and set in my ways. At least Oracle is putting up a fight. But it maybe too little too late though I hope not. Nothing would be better for the sport in this country than a good old fashioned USA come back from the brink of disaster.

Robbed in the first race by the clock, we were miles out in front.
BUGGER!

I've never been a fan of light air sailing. Some like to say it takes skill to race in light air. BS...it's a crap shoot as to who is in a position to get the puff and of course it's always a shift that lays the mark. The only sailors that say it takes skill just won that race. They never say it when they lose or the clock runs out.

Lostbuckeye said:

At least Oracle is putting up a fight. But it maybe too little too late though I hope not. Nothing would be better for the sport in this country than a good old fashioned USA come back from the brink of disaster.

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Daaamn! I was only half serious. 6 to 8 after today? Did someone find the bucket that the Kiwis tied to the back of team USA's aircraft...eerrr... boat?

haha yeah, i go to the track for a couple of days get back and WTF happened to our boat and team.
apparently first half of the regatta Team NZ won 8 lost two, second half of the regatta Oracle won 8 lost 2, with 9 wins at the start to seven in favour of Oracle.
So not looking good for us with this momentum shift but hey Go Team NZ!
looks like Oracle boat has improved way more than us and their crew work caught up both teams look even with now maybe some slight boat speed to Oracle but still they need 3 to win and us 1, whoever wins this it has been intriguing to watch finally never thought i would say that.
Really hope we do it though.....

Even if Team USA pulls this out of their collective A$$E$, I'm not sure if the Cup should stay here or not. Only 2 members of the 24 member crew are Americans. The majority are from Australia or NZ. I guess this is a statement about the sailing talent in the US. Or maybe lack of talent? Anyway the boats and crews are a bit more even now and the races are entertaining. This form of the sport still feels too distant to us regular sailors.

Unbelieveable

Two weeks ago, Oracle was in deed, hopelessly lost and I would've bet a steak dinner it would all be over and just about forgotten by now. But no, now they appear to be dominating with flawless execution and some remarkable improvements to the boat. There must be a sailing equivalent of an Adrian Newey lurking in the shadows of Oracle engineering.

Regardless of what happens today, it's been an impressive show to the world.

I agree there was very little interest back here at the beginning as pretty much everyone was saying these are not your typical Americas Cup boats 'ít's not sailing'.
regardless if we get 2 races in today then someone will win this bloody thing today, then we can all go back and focus on other things so.....
Go Team NZ!

7 to 8 tighten your sphincters boys. Can USA force it to a winner take all final race tomorrow or whenever? I got to admit those aircraft are fast. Never mind. It's now 8 to 8 winner take all. Win or lose it has to be the greatest comeback in sailing history.