It's all tied up now.
Down to a winner takes all!
Miner
Down to a winner takes all!
Miner
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louis vuitton Cup
- Thread starter 92 white 0650
- Start date
Great race, Oracle just too fast the way it leaps on to the foils is just impressive just too much tech for our boat i think.
Well done ETNZ congrats Oracle impressive come back best of all time
Well done ETNZ congrats Oracle impressive come back best of all time
I just got home to see the end of the race. Really I was only half serious about the good old American come back. "Do you believe in miracles?!!" NZ definitely pushed USA to the limit and beyond. I still feel like the Cup should visit the Yacht Clubs in Australia and NZ for those sailors who made up the bulk of Team USA. I hope that they make a rule change on team nationality and put some Cloth in the rigging for the next AC. Well done to both teams.
Could not have written a better script
Unbelievable. I thought it was heartbreak time for Oracle when they plowed into the wave just before the first mark. But that was the only mistake and the boat speed took over. It was soon "crying time again" for NZ before the 3rd mark. Oracle looked like Seb Vettel and RedBull F-1.
What a show.
Unbelievable. I thought it was heartbreak time for Oracle when they plowed into the wave just before the first mark. But that was the only mistake and the boat speed took over. It was soon "crying time again" for NZ before the 3rd mark. Oracle looked like Seb Vettel and RedBull F-1.
What a show.
I watched the trophy ceremony which was kind of weird with both MCs Calling the teams out in unison and the choice of music seemed awkward. Team NZ showed amazing class in the face of what had to be a painful loss. Too bad that one team had to lose. It would have been just as painful for Team USA to fight that hard and come up short. New Zealand should be proud of their team and the character they have shown. They raced flawlessly in that last race but the aircraft...err...boat just wasn't fast enough in the end. As I have said earlier in this thread, I'm not a fan of this format for the America's Cup and changes need to be made. However, IMO the best part of this regatta was the competitiveness, character and sportsmanship of the teams throughout a grueling series of races. Well done NZ.
Well said^ we're very proud of the team down here it was so close we had a chance and the cards didnt fall our way then Oracle got their shit together and it was game over.
Interesting article here talks about the aircraft technology link you have mentioned a couple of times, http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/09/scuttlebut-team-new-zealands-scuttling/#ixzz2g2vmfbFd
Emirates Team New Zealand is not making any excuses we lost it they beat us all we can say is 'bugger' hopefully we get another crack at it.
One thing we can take out of it is we built both boats and the Kiwi's are in all teams so we got pride in the fact that without us it wouldnt of turned into the spectacle that we all thought wouldnt happen, we just didnt win it!
Interesting article here talks about the aircraft technology link you have mentioned a couple of times, http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/09/scuttlebut-team-new-zealands-scuttling/#ixzz2g2vmfbFd
Emirates Team New Zealand is not making any excuses we lost it they beat us all we can say is 'bugger' hopefully we get another crack at it.
One thing we can take out of it is we built both boats and the Kiwi's are in all teams so we got pride in the fact that without us it wouldnt of turned into the spectacle that we all thought wouldnt happen, we just didnt win it!
Bumpity bump bump :biggrin:
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport...rates-team-new-zealand-lift-the-auld-mug.html
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport...rates-team-new-zealand-lift-the-auld-mug.html
I watched a bit of the last race, the Oracle boat didn't have it this year.
I hear the boats are designed on a knife's edge, a little more or little less wind and they are not worth crap. Perhaps the NZ folks had a better design for Bermuda.
I hear the boats are designed on a knife's edge, a little more or little less wind and they are not worth crap. Perhaps the NZ folks had a better design for Bermuda.
yeah last time round our boat was maxed out and Oracles wasn't so they improved while we stood still and lost it, this time round we blew them all away with innovative designs and won the cup with a damaged boat after our capsize in the qualifiers
Reading up on the wiki, this years spec was 50' boats vice 72' last time. The NZ boat had the foot power instead of arm power, certainly a difference between NZ and everyone else.
amazing what these boats have morphed into....what was wrong with single hull/keeled boats
The America's Cup has really always been a development class (like formula 1). Dennis Conner and his cat really broke / stretched / opened up (whatever your inclination) the 'accepted' rules of the Cup's Deed in 1987, although the New Zealand KZ1 challenger was already kind of an outsized stretch.
There is still lots of single hull - keel boat racing; but, it is largely class racing which lacks the hype and hyper $ of the America's cup.
so the analogy to cars would be if F1 ran with the 6 wheeled cars and ground skirts
And even more expensive!
The comparison of the 6 wheel Tyrrell / ground skirt / and perhaps active suspension F1 cars to F1 cars not so equipped represents a smaller technology gap than theoretically what existed between KZ1 and the Conner's catamaran. The original America's Cup boats were 12 meter class boats. 12 m boats are / were displacement hulls and all displacement hulls have a theoretical upper speed limit established by the waterline length of the hull. You can add all the sail area you want; but, at some point you hit a wall. Most of the fiddling in the 12 m class occurred below the waterline with winged keels and drag reduction stuff eking out smallish improvements in performance. KZ1 kind of severely stretched the understanding of the rules by ditching the 12 m waterline length and going for a monster long keel boat. The longer hull length (and a bunch more sail area) gave them a theoretically higher top speed compared to the old class of boats; but, it was still limited by the physical constraints of a displacement hull.
I don't purport to know what was going on in Dennis Conner's head at the time; but, I expect that he knew that trying to outKZ1 with something longer than KZ1 was going to be mind buggeringly expensive and difficult given the development time. So he did a complete technology change to the catamaran which doesn't suffer from the same displacement induced wave drag problem that limits displacement hulls like KZ1. My recollection from the events was that the Kiwis knew that they were pretty much screwed. Aside from the legal challenge, the Kiwi strategy seemed to consist of trying to blanket (wind shadow) the catamaran from the start line so that it couldn't fly a hull, or hope for light wind conditions where the cat could not fly a hull and the KZ1 sail area played to their advantage. The KZ1 was a huge boat that made the cat look somewhat puny and cast a similarly huge shadow. If the cat was able to stay clear of KZ1 or the wind was good and they could fly a hull I think the race was pretty much over and the Kiwi's could pretty much head for the bar and some Steiny's.
I think that the comparison might be that with KZ1 compared to the old 12m class, the Kiwi's brought a Tyrell 6 wheeler to the race. Conner brought a jet powered land speed record car to the race (which is more like an airplane that doesn't leave the ground). Just to extend the aircraft analogy, with the hydrofoils the latest boats have completely exited the displacement drag regimen and are truly flying through the water where the lift and drag and foil stuff are generally governed by the same equations as for aircraft.
The America's Cup and the high $ always makes for interesting drama. It is always interesting to watch people spend money and try new stuff. My personal opinion is that it generally does not make for interesting racing if you are watching the race. Class racing is more interesting. I used to race Lasers and Hobbies. I never participated at the World's level; but, I know that at that level after every race the competitors rotated boats. They could adjust stuff on the boat to their liking before the race; but, that was pretty much it. Some people don't like that type of racing because it is pretty hard to blame non performance on a poor boat.
I don't purport to know what was going on in Dennis Conner's head at the time; but, I expect that he knew that trying to outKZ1 with something longer than KZ1 was going to be mind buggeringly expensive and difficult given the development time. So he did a complete technology change to the catamaran which doesn't suffer from the same displacement induced wave drag problem that limits displacement hulls like KZ1. My recollection from the events was that the Kiwis knew that they were pretty much screwed. Aside from the legal challenge, the Kiwi strategy seemed to consist of trying to blanket (wind shadow) the catamaran from the start line so that it couldn't fly a hull, or hope for light wind conditions where the cat could not fly a hull and the KZ1 sail area played to their advantage. The KZ1 was a huge boat that made the cat look somewhat puny and cast a similarly huge shadow. If the cat was able to stay clear of KZ1 or the wind was good and they could fly a hull I think the race was pretty much over and the Kiwi's could pretty much head for the bar and some Steiny's.
I think that the comparison might be that with KZ1 compared to the old 12m class, the Kiwi's brought a Tyrell 6 wheeler to the race. Conner brought a jet powered land speed record car to the race (which is more like an airplane that doesn't leave the ground). Just to extend the aircraft analogy, with the hydrofoils the latest boats have completely exited the displacement drag regimen and are truly flying through the water where the lift and drag and foil stuff are generally governed by the same equations as for aircraft.
The America's Cup and the high $ always makes for interesting drama. It is always interesting to watch people spend money and try new stuff. My personal opinion is that it generally does not make for interesting racing if you are watching the race. Class racing is more interesting. I used to race Lasers and Hobbies. I never participated at the World's level; but, I know that at that level after every race the competitors rotated boats. They could adjust stuff on the boat to their liking before the race; but, that was pretty much it. Some people don't like that type of racing because it is pretty hard to blame non performance on a poor boat.
I love your thoughtful and knowledgeable responses compared to my drivel .....I used to do some force 5 and laser sailing out of St Thomas and the yacht club back in the late 70's early 80's......starting off in sunfish.....Its good to remind the folks watching today that these boats evolved from much simpler stuff..and now that you mention it I do remember that weird year where a cat was racing a mono....
Laser sailor? Ever do the jibe in strong winds and then forget to duck as the boom snapped across the boat? Not a lot of head room under the boom on a Laser - and any kind of cut on the scalp just bleeds like crazy. Initiation ritual for a lot of Laser sailors.
I love to watch the winged sail, hydrofoils go thru the water, but the 12 meter boats were way more entertaining.
I'm not a sailboat person, but did a 3 hour sail on an older 12 meter boat in maui and loved it. And I see several 12 meter ish boats on San Diego bay daily.
As a friend (former head of the Naval Academy sailing program) pointed out, winged sails never stop working. Makes for high maintenance to a super high maintenance hobby.
I'm not a sailboat person, but did a 3 hour sail on an older 12 meter boat in maui and loved it. And I see several 12 meter ish boats on San Diego bay daily.
As a friend (former head of the Naval Academy sailing program) pointed out, winged sails never stop working. Makes for high maintenance to a super high maintenance hobby.
What a great series and congrats to the NZ team...although I think I heard a few Aussie accents in a some of the teams!
Those cats make my old Tornado look like the Kon-Tiki Raft.
Spectacular!
Those cats make my old Tornado look like the Kon-Tiki Raft.
Spectacular!
Spectacular but not riveting is that what we are saying? the old mono hulls or 12metre hulls was more about suspense and tactics, didn't the last race of 1983 take like 3 hrs. Now that the cup is coming down under again there is all sorts of talk about what's next we might see some sort of hybrid foiling mono hull.
KZ1 is still down at the bottom of town right by all the bars it was a magnificent machine on the water
KZ1 is still down at the bottom of town right by all the bars it was a magnificent machine on the water
