Bilstein vs. KWV3

I have new Bilsteins installed now but could go KWV3. Should I?

Not tracking
Getting SOS suspension upgrades
Supercharger coming
OEM wheels / tires ('97 Targa)

Worth the investment?

Are you happy with the ride quality/performance?

stuntman said:

Are you happy with the ride quality/performance?

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Yes for the most part. Just wanted to make sure they were up to the mods I'm going to put on:

Stiffer sway bar
Upgrade toe ends
Urethane rack bushings

If I like it I should keep as is?

Which Bilsteins?

Bas went from KW V3 to Bilsteins, especially since he is only using his car on the road and not the track.

Most important question here is what is the car use for? if it's a cruiser where comfort is important then I'd certainly stay Bilstein.
If you drive your car hard and like a race car like ride or do track days, then the KW V3's are a better option.

It sounds like you might be starting down the slippery slope of modifying you NSX.
About 10 years ago I surely did... and it's been one of my life's greatest journeys.

With that in mind let me say that the KW V3's have the benefits of being much more versatile.

Here are some examples of their versatility:
KW's are fully adjustable in ride height and in firmness.
KW's also can accept a wide range of springs with different spring rates and different lengths.
KW's include a tender/helper spring in addition to the main spring. This allows a great amount of suspension travel especially in droop. I like this because coilovers that provide a lot of droop can be raised quite high with a lift system to avoid scraping on uneven road surfaces. (Can I say that here?) They can also be lowered to extremely low ride heights and still be raised enough to go over almost any obstacle they encounter without scraping.

In my search for the best suspension system for my highly modified NSX, I've owned and driven: OEM, HKS Hypermax, Tein Flex, NSX Type R, and KWV3.
I have limited time driving the on Bilsteins although I bought some for our R&D and I still have them in my shop.
Once I tired the KWV3's on my personal NSX, I stopped my search for the suspension system that I couldn't find any fault with.
They are very comfortable on the street yet they performed beyond my expectations when I drove them on the track for roughly 180 miles at VIR this past NSXPO.

If you plan on modding your NSX and want to try different ride heights, ground clearances and firmness settings you might enjoy the flexibility that the KW's offer.

Steve do you have custom spring rates or just the standard kw rates.?

docjohn said:

Steve do you have custom spring rates or just the standard kw rates.?

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My car have the standard KW springs. I do have large 1 inch sway bars at the front and rear of the car. I think the large bars help to increase the effective spring rate on the heavily loaded side by transferring some of the load to the light side through the sway bar.
I was surprised how well the car handled on the track even with the 1 inch rear sway bar. My car does have a lot of other chassis and suspension enhancements.
Even with the soft KW springs my car's suspension is so stiff that when I lift my car with the lift system to go up my driveway, I sometimes the light front wheel is lifted completely off the pavement. Driving on the street is still very comfortable.
I'm a dealer for Swift springs so I've been thinking of trying some stiffer springs. I called KW this morning to ask how stiff I can go with the KWV3's and they told me that I can increase the spring rates by up to 50%. Some of my customers are running much stiffer springs so I'm thinking of trying stiffer springs on my KW's to see how they compare with the other brands of coilovers with stiffer springs The main advantage of stiffer springs for me on my car would be that I could lower my car more for a more dramatic demonstration of the lift system.

I would be interested to know what difference if any the Swift springs are over the KW springs, looking at what you said you would not be comparing the same spring rates tho.

iLiftSystems said:

My car have the standard KW springs. I do have large 1 inch sway bars at the front and rear of the car. I think the large bars help to increase the effective spring rate on the heavily loaded side by transferring some of the load to the light side through the sway bar.
I was surprised how well the car handled on the track even with the 1 inch rear sway bar. My car does have a lot of other chassis and suspension enhancements.
Even with the soft KW springs my car's suspension is so stiff that when I lift my car with the lift system to go up my driveway, I sometimes the light front wheel is lifted completely off the pavement. Driving on the street is still very comfortable.
I'm a dealer for Swift springs so I've been thinking of trying some stiffer springs. I called KW this morning to ask how stiff I can go with the KWV3's and they told me that I can increase the spring rates by up to 50%. Some of my customers are running much stiffer springs so I'm thinking of trying stiffer springs on my KW's to see how they compare with the other brands of coilovers with stiffer springs The main advantage of stiffer springs for me on my car would be that I could lower my car more for a more dramatic demonstration of the lift system.

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Remember body roll does NOT = weight transfer. By keeping the car flatter in a turn, you are increasing weight transfer by unloading the inside tire more and putting more load on the outside tire (because the swaybar is not letting the outside compress as far.

stuntman said:

Remember body roll does NOT = weight transfer. By keeping the car flatter in a turn, you are increasing weight transfer by unloading the inside tire more and putting more load on the outside tire (because the swaybar is not letting the outside compress as far.

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Billy, thanks for clarifying.



I was thinking of the stiff sway bar transferring some of the spring compression on light side of the car to the heavily loaded side of the car when going up sloping driveways as in the photos below.

Even with the relatively soft KW springs, the stiff sway bar raises the outside tire off the pavement and the heavily loaded side retains a good amount of ground clearance.











I'm going to try some stiffer springs on my car with the KWV3's to see how much more ground clearance they provide since many of our customers use springs that are stiffer than the KW springs.



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scammy said:

I would be interested to know what difference if any the Swift springs are over the KW springs, looking at what you said you would not be comparing the same spring rates tho.

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I am interested in knowing the differences in Springs too. If you read and believe the Swift information on their springs they offer advantages over other springs such as lighter weights and better performance.

I am mainly interested in seeing the difference in ride comfort of stiffer springs and how much more ground clearance stiffer springs provide when going over irregular surfaces such as sloping driveways.

I called KW last week and they told me that spring rates can be increased by 50% on the KWV3's . I'm thinking of trying the 90 rate Swift springs along with the helper springs. The helper springs provide more benefits than just preventing the springs from rattling in full droop. They actually allow the shock to compress more from the weight of the car and allow the suspension to have more droop. For our purposes this is very beneficial because more droop equates to more lift for greater ground clearance when needed.

I think that other brands of coilovers could benefit from the use of helper springs. That's something we will be testing.

Interesting, we have Bilsteins (stock springs on the lower perch) on our Red car, and KWV3's (just a bit lower still) on the Purple one......and with the exact same tires / sizes / pressures I give the ride comfort nod to the KWV3's.
The KW's are set on the softer side of the scale (around 6 clicks from full soft IIRC) and the Purple car handles every bit as well as the Red one.
The only other major difference is the deletion of the rear swaybar on the Purple car, but that has little impact on everyday street ride quality.

YMMV, but I think the KWV3's are the best of both worlds!

Brian

^ this is the comparison I was really hoping for. I've yet to ride in a KWv3 car (all the area owners are still garaged) but I am strongly considering moving from Bilsteins to KWv3 myself. Because I daily the NSX though, I was concerned about ride quality.

FF Drifter said:

^ this is the comparison I was really hoping for. I've yet to ride in a KWv3 car (all the area owners are still garaged) but I am strongly considering moving from Bilsteins to KWv3 myself. Because I daily the NSX though, I was concerned about ride quality.

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I think you'll be happy with the KWV3. Yesterday I tried different rebound and compression (bump) settings on my KW's in preparation for my spring upgrades. The KW's can be set to ride as comfortably (soft) as you would want.

This is a switch I have been looking to possibly make too. I put in Bilstein Sport Shocks on Eibach Pro-Kit springs at around 80,000 miles, and now I am almost at 200,000 miles and am fairly certain that these shocks are done. One side seems lower than the other, and the car scrapes on turning a LOT more than it used to. So I have been thinking of the KW V3 as a replacement.

I drive the car...a LOT....but want it to handle because I hate to slow down. What would annoy me is a lot of rattling. Do the KW V3 shocks/springs rattle over bumps? If so, how much? I live on the north side of Indianapolis, and the roads are CRAP! So that is a factor.

Any insight?

Meeyatch1 said:

This is a switch I have been looking to possibly make too. I put in Bilstein Sport Shocks on Eibach Pro-Kit springs at around 80,000 miles, and now I am almost at 200,000 miles and am fairly certain that these shocks are done. One side seems lower than the other, and the car scrapes on turning a LOT more than it used to. So I have been thinking of the KW V3 as a replacement.

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Bilsteins are supposed to have a lifetime warranty, so you may want to remove them and send them in (even if you decide not to keep them).
If the car is sagging, I would look at the springs or the top hats first, as the springs are what ultimately hold up the weight of the car, not the shocks/struts.

Meeyatch1 said:

This is a switch I have been looking to possibly make too. I put in Bilstein Sport Shocks on Eibach Pro-Kit springs at around 80,000 miles, and now I am almost at 200,000 miles and am fairly certain that these shocks are done. One side seems lower than the other, and the car scrapes on turning a LOT more than it used to. So I have been thinking of the KW V3 as a replacement.

I drive the car...a LOT....but want it to handle because I hate to slow down. What would annoy me is a lot of rattling. Do the KW V3 shocks/springs rattle over bumps? If so, how much? I live on the north side of Indianapolis, and the roads are CRAP! So that is a factor.

Any insight?

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Zero noise/rattles. They use OEM top hats and the lower perches is composite so no metal on metal interactions.

My car has kW and I drove a car with bilstiens the other day and I have to say hands down not a question the kW has a far far better ride quality ( not as rigid or harsh feeling). I don't know how mine is set up I bought the car as is and left it. I can say however the bilstiens car was about half inch lower than mine....

I can say that while the KWv3 can be set up to have very good comfort, there is no comparison to bilstein if only looking at comfort (while still providing a handling upgrade).

Hapa88 said:

Bilsteins are supposed to have a lifetime warranty, so you may want to remove them and send them in (even if you decide not to keep them).
If the car is sagging, I would look at the springs or the top hats first, as the springs are what ultimately hold up the weight of the car, not the shocks/struts.

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Thank you. How would I tell if it is the springs or shocks that are faulty?

Having driven both on the same car the winner in comfort is KW as it can be set to Mercedes-style comfort if you like. At a soft setting it's marvelous how it soaks up irregularities. Downside: the suspension is not free of noise. When cold mine clunked and thrown it out.
The Bilsteins are a compromise compared to fully adjustable setups but due to their simplicity and quality they last much longer than fully adjustable shocks (adds complexity).

Did you have V3 or CS? My V3s never clunked.

stuntman said:

Did you have V3 or CS? My V3s never clunked.

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V3, I hated the disturbing sound of them and thrown them out even though their adjustablility was great.

goldNSX said:

V3, I hated the disturbing sound of them and thrown them out even though their adjustablility was great.

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Weird. Something must have been installed incorrectly or broken. How low were you?

I've had V3s on my M3 for over 40,000 miles and they've never made a sound. Same with the V3s on my NSX for over 15K.