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The itch for Turbo...

NetViper said:
Why don't you come down to that wannagofast event with Alex. You can hear it in person. :) No spooling with a blower... just whining...:)
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I will be there in Jan but a simple phone video will do for my "spool/whinning fix" for now.Especially if you say it's better.....- - - Updated - - -
Zmoney said:
thanks for the feedback. I think I may part with the CTSC and go for a SOS twin setup. Been reading great things about it and seems I will notice a night and day difference in terms of how the car feels. Would still love to hear feedback from others that have experience....also would love to sit in some setups. Anyone wanna take me for a ride in so cal? ;)
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Simple rule to remember, if you don't want to go over 400-420 whp, then SC is perfect.Anything beyond that, you will need a built motor.After riding in a turbo car, SC was out of the question for me.So if funds are available to build motor go turbo/$6000+turbo kit. http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...ne_program/FI_custom_engine_program/Otherwise, go with a supercharger or turbo with a safe tune below 420whp. (ask me how I know/2engine builds later)
 
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Zmoney said:
Thanks for the feedback! I really think the setup you have is ideally what I want to go with. What is the cost of the system installed? I figure I can get about 7-8k for my CTSC(I hope) since it has like 5000 miles on it. I have the RM exhaust already that I could use for it. What else do I need?
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It costs about $17K installed. You will need High Flow cats too so add about $900.00. Then add about $500.00 to $1K for tuning the piggy back FIC. As others have said, it is an expensive kit. But, I think it's worth the money to have it look like the factory installed it. And, it is a very similar setup as the new NSX without the electric motors and the flames:) The other two quality turbo kits, Lovefab and Angus are a bit less expensive but they perform differently (not in a bad way but differently) than the SOS due to the location of the turbos IMO. Just like exhaust, it's a matter of personal taste. Some like the hard kick in the A$$ at VTEC and I like a more linear pull. Same with the amount of HP that you want. More HP will cost more $$$.The key really is to have someone who really knows the NSX to install it. Everything fits in very tight spaces. It is not your typical bolt on kit contrary to SOS's website. And I think most people just ship their car to SOS to have it installed. I didn't as my NSX Tech (Scott Oliver at HNA Automotive) is the Guru in this part of the country and a perfectionist. However, Chris at SOS is awesome to work with and he'll see you through it. When I get some time I'll do a build tread on the install as I think others might be interested in how, it's done. Good Luck.
 
Lostbuckeye said:
It costs about $17K installed. You will need High Flow cats too so add about $900.00. Then add about $500.00 to $1K for tuning the piggy back FIC. As others have said, it is an expensive kit. But, I think it's worth the money to have it look like the factory installed it. And, it is a very similar setup as the new NSX without the electric motors and the flames:) The other two quality turbo kits, Lovefab and Angus are a bit less expensive but they perform differently (not in a bad way but differently) than the SOS due to the location of the turbos IMO. Just like exhaust, it's a matter of personal taste. Some like the hard kick in the A$$ at VTEC and I like a more linear pull. Same with the amount of HP that you want. More HP will cost more $$$.The key really is to have someone who really knows the NSX to install it. Everything fits in very tight spaces. It is not your typical bolt on kit contrary to SOS's website. And I think most people just ship their car to SOS to have it installed. I didn't as my NSX Tech (Scott Oliver at HNA Automotive) is the Guru in this part of the country and a perfectionist. However, Chris at SOS is awesome to work with and he'll see you through it. When I get some time I'll do a build tread on the install as I think others might be interested in how, it's done. Good Luck.
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Ouch...add another 10+ grand :eek: after I sell the CTSC - Don't think I can come around to it :frown:
 
Hey Z I think you should ride with some of the locals that have different FI setups. Some will be at the BBQ Sunday and I'm sure they will be more than happy to take you for a spin. Others come to the monthly meets in OC on the 1st Thursday of the month and SGV on the 3rd Thursday of the month. IMO you should just stay with what you have, I have the same and love it. I have driven or rode in others and they are fun but the extra $$$$ just doesn't seem worth it to me, but YMMV.
 
LMR said:
Hey Z I think you should ride with some of the locals that have different FI setups. Some will be at the BBQ Sunday and I'm sure they will be more than happy to take you for a spin. Others come to the monthly meets in OC on the 1st Thursday of the month and SGV on the 3rd Thursday of the month. IMO you should just stay with what you have, I have the same and love it. I have driven or rode in others and they are fun but the extra $$$$ just doesn't seem worth it to me, but YMMV.
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Yeah man definitely plan on doing that. I would consider it if I can get away with spending 5k on top of what I get for my CTSC - so roughly around 12 Gs. But I think you are right, just doesn't seem worth it. The CTSC is fun - I just have a bad case of the "more" syndrome.
 
Bottom line, it all depends on how bad you want to scratch that itch. HP isn't cheap. What you have maybe good enough but, it never hurts to look at the grass on the other side to see how green it "costs". I looked at CTSC but, with the targa, I wanted to keep my engine cover and the stock look of my car. LMR is right, you should ride in a few turbo cars before you decide. There are less expensive kits out there that will get you where you want HP wise. Believe me I was on the fence so much over whether I should spend the big bucks that I got a wedgie. It was worth it IMO. Good Luck in your choice.
 
Zmoney said:
Yeah man definitely plan on doing that. I would consider it if I can get away with spending 5k on top of what I get for my CTSC - so roughly around 12 Gs. But I think you are right, just doesn't seem worth it. The CTSC is fun - I just have a bad case of the "more" syndrome.
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Here is the thing, you will get bored of the power of the turbo too and want more. It will never end. Unless you want to build the motor, I would leave it alone. Just drive a really slow car for a few weeks and then your nsx will feel fast again.
 
NetViper said:
Here is the thing, you will get bored of the power of the turbo too and want more. It will never end. Unless you want to build the motor, I would leave it alone. Just drive a really slow car for a few weeks and then your nsx will feel fast again.
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very astute comment.....thats why my DD is a landcruiser...and I'm fine with my puny NA 3.2:biggrin:
 
NetViper said:
Here is the thing, you will get bored of the power of the turbo too and want more. It will never end. Unless you want to build the motor, I would leave it alone. Just drive a really slow car for a few weeks and then your nsx will feel fast again.
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Lol...my dd is an is 250. But you're right, it will never stop.
 
LMR said:
CT made an engine cover for the targa, there's one on mine.
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I saw one and it wasn't what I wanted. I'm happy with my decision. 430 whp at 8.6 lbs of boost is perfect on the NSX and is what it should have had from the factory. I wouldn't want more as it would cost even more than I spent to build the engine and would be harder to control. CTSC is a much simpler route but with my setup the only giveaway is the blow off valve and the sound. Everything else appears stock.
 
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NetViper said:
Here is the thing, you will get bored of the power of the turbo too and want more. It will never end. Unless you want to build the motor, I would leave it alone. Just drive a really slow car for a few weeks and then your nsx will feel fast again.
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Thats^^^ almost totally true. But what really happens to kill your bordem is when your chasing numbers/power and it gets expensive due to things breaking, at that point you find contentment with a safe tune and built motor.Between 500-600whp is a sweet spot for NSX(on built motor) beyond that it will cost you at some point.So......find your place in the above or lower and you will be fine. Build your car only 1time with no regrets and be happy.I tend to always do a bit more so I will always be satisfied. It's good to have informative people like these guys here, just learn from our choices, preferences and mistakes.
 
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Zmoney said:
Yeah man definitely plan on doing that. I would consider it if I can get away with spending 5k on top of what I get for my CTSC - so roughly around 12 Gs. But I think you are right, just doesn't seem worth it. The CTSC is fun - I just have a bad case of the "more" syndrome.
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You have the option of the AEM Series 2 and then going to E-85 with the high boost pulley. With a tune this should only be 3-4K. You could also do the ATI crank pulley to free some parasitic loses. I believe this would get you close or right at 400rwhp. This is just an option to maximize the setup you have along with the extra cooling and detonation prevention of E-85.
 
cptnsx said:
You have the option of the AEM Series 2 and then going to E-85 with the high boost pulley. With a tune this should only be 3-4K. You could also do the ATI crank pulley to free some parasitic loses. I believe this would get you close or right at 400rwhp. This is just an option to maximize the setup you have along with the extra cooling and detonation prevention of E-85.
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I like that option, for someone who already has an SC system. I agree with the OP that the cost to switch is going to be high. Plus, he's not starting from scratch and has a great platform to build on.
 
Bringing this thread back to life.

can someone list everything I need to go with a safe and reliable high boost CTSC? To refresh I have a low boost autorotor CTSC currently. Thanks!
 
High boost pulley and the AEM Infinity. Consider upgraded fuel pump and possibly larger injectors
 
.......and now it begins
 
First question is whether your car needs to remain OBD2 compliant? If so, you can't go with a full EMS like Infinity, you have to use a piggyback like the F/IC. Since you are in southern CA, you could talk to Regan [MENTION=20915]RYU[/MENTION] to see if the HKS system might work. There is a significant difference between full EMS and piggyback, in that with the piggyback you will want to use injectors that are as close as possible to the OEM injectors; with full EMS, you can use whatever you like (and people seem to like the ID).

With either setup you need:
  • 1:1 fuel-pressure regulator (OEM or any of the adjustable alternatives)
  • the SOS fuel-pressure adapter, to put an OEM regulator on the CT fuel rails
  • wire-harness adapters for the new injectors
  • smaller pulley
  • new belt (because the old one will be too long with the smaller pulley)
  • maybe the TiDave tensioner block (because higher boost will require more torque to the blower)
  • fuel pump (to handle the higher flow rates)
  • depending on your mechanic, seals like the intake gasket, etc.
  • tuning after everything is done

At a minimum you need:
  • piggyback controller (AEM F/IC)
  • larger injectors (550 cc RC Engineering)

With full EMS:
  • EMS (AEM Infinity)
  • larger injectors (750 cc ID)

I have just done all of this, although I'm hesitating to put the small pulley on because of the increased charge temperatures that will result. I have a Lysholm blower so you might be okay with the Autorotor but you should also think about water-spray or an intercooler. The water spray is cheaper but likely has poor distribution uniformity to the cylinders and is a more complex system that can run out or fail. An intercooler is expensive and adds height which may be an issue if you use an engine cover or targa holder still. I don't but I do have a CT brace, which would need to be modified.
 
jwmelvin said:
First question is whether your car needs to remain OBD2 compliant? If so, you can't go with a full EMS like Infinity, you have to use a piggyback like the F/IC. Since you are in southern CA, you could talk to Regan @RYU to see if the HKS system might work. There is a significant difference between full EMS and piggyback, in that with the piggyback you will want to use injectors that are as close as possible to the OEM injectors; with full EMS, you can use whatever you like (and people seem to like the ID).

With either setup you need:
  • 1:1 fuel-pressure regulator (OEM or any of the adjustable alternatives)
  • the SOS fuel-pressure adapter, to put an OEM regulator on the CT fuel rails
  • wire-harness adapters for the new injectors
  • smaller pulley
  • new belt (because the old one will be too long with the smaller pulley)
  • maybe the TiDave tensioner block (because higher boost will require more torque to the blower)
  • fuel pump (to handle the higher flow rates)
  • depending on your mechanic, seals like the intake gasket, etc.
  • tuning after everything is done

At a minimum you need:
  • piggyback controller (AEM F/IC)
  • larger injectors (550 cc RC Engineering)

With full EMS:
  • EMS (AEM Infinity)
  • larger injectors (750 cc ID)

I have just done all of this, although I'm hesitating to put the small pulley on because of the increased charge temperatures that will result. I have a Lysholm blower so you might be okay with the Autorotor but you should also think about water-spray or an intercooler. The water spray is cheaper but likely has poor distribution uniformity to the cylinders and is a more complex system that can run out or fail. An intercooler is expensive and adds height which may be an issue if you use an engine cover or targa holder still. I don't but I do have a CT brace, which would need to be modified.
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Thanks for the info. Seems like a lot to consider for 20-30 rwhp. I think I may be able to pull off selling my CTSC (bought it with it on the car already and got a great deal) and going turbo with the Prospeed kit and only have to spend a few more grand. Will need to take a ride in a turbo setup and see how I like it.
 
From the sounds of it, you need to remain where you are and perhaps look for a heat exchanger/intercooler for your CTSC. I mean no offense when I say this, but if you are balking about spending the money for a proven turbo kit (i.e. SoS, LoveFab, or what have you), then you have no earthly idea what you are getting into with the horse power numbers you are wanting. I could be wrong, but drivetrain loss will equate to somewhere around 50'ish hp; therefore, to reach your desired number you will have to push anywhere from 450 to 470 hp. Things CAN and WILL break at these numbers.

As others have said already, you will need a good catback 2 1/2" diameter or more, some high-flow cats, an FIC since you need to remain SMOG compliant, and of course have your car tuned. This will cost you several thousand dollars on-top of what you spend. This does not include a clutch, so hopefully you have a good one already.

There are cars running these numbers reliably, but it remains a gamble no matter how you look at it. If you really sit down and think about this, you are already making sacrifices with quality and proven reliability because you cannot justify the money needed to get the car where you want it to be. These cars are not american muscle where hp can be found cheaply. You are going to need to spend some serious money to when things go wrong, so hopefully you have figured that into your thought process.

Good luck in whatever you decide, but I would strongly recommend that you consider what others have told you.
 
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Wait until XPO and you will get an opportunity to ride in multiple iterations of turbo cars and then you can decide. 500 RWHP is definitely safe on a built motor. On a stock motor, things are waiting to break. It's a slippery slope and having been at over 800 RWHP, I am pretty comfortable at 500+ although it was fun to get that WTF feeling with super high HP.

Tuning is the MOST important issue regardless of your goals. Although an FIC works for the OBD2 cars, it is still NOT as smooth as the stock ECU and this goes for the modified AEM stand alones because it is still a piggy-back with the stock ECU trying to handle the idle. My modified stand alone was almost perfect, stalled less than 1% of the time with downshifts when there was abrupt closure of the throttle body. Having ridden and driven OBD1 cars with the stand-alone AEM, these cars felt and drove like stock. The AEM Infinity is also supposed to offer the same and I will give my opinion once the snow is clear. My car should be at XPO unless something catastrophic occurs on the track before October.
 
peiserg said:
Meh. Only thing he needs to worry about breaking at 450ish is clutch. I say spend the money and go.
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So what are the half-shafts good for hp wise? Outside of the transmission, they seem to be the weakest link..no?
 

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