The sound of a ring and pinion letting go today

This is what happens when you put a lot of power/torq through a OEM Gearbox and drive it hard.
2nd one in a year.
Time for the OS Giken

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Just for the record, what power level are you running in your track tune? How are your half shafts holding up?

Dave

558 rwhp
435 lbs torq
17lbs boost
Which is all about to come down.
Too hard on the gearbox.

Axles are doing fine. I rebuild them once a year and vent them to make sure they stay cooler.

And tires too...which I believe are slicks

Yes, Yokohama A005's.
I may have to go back to NT-01's until I can get the Giken.
We'll see how she does when I bring that torq down.
Thats whats killing the gearbox.

Coz said:

Axles are doing fine. I rebuild them once a year and vent them to make sure they stay cooler.

Click to expand...

Do you just clean, inspect and regrease or are you replacing joints on the axles, I have lost one on the drivers side and the passenger inner joint is starting to make noise. I regrease mine every year with Redline CV2. I am at 400whp/300tq on the track but my issue has to do with my ability to heal-toe and the 6 puck clutch not having any slip. I am on NT01s


Dave

Take a part, flip the spider gear, refill with the Redline, new vents, boots and bands.
No issues.

Very important you get the heal toe down.
Also very hard on your gearbox Dave if not correct.

Practice it going slower. I practice on the street to some degree to keep the feel.

Coz said:

Take a part, flip the spider gear, refill with the Redline, new vents, boots and bands.
No issues.

Very important you get the heal toe down.
Also very hard on your gearbox Dave if not correct.

Practice it going slower. I practice on the street to some degree to keep the feel.

Click to expand...

Never had an issue with Heal-toe in any of my other NSX untill I went with the 6-puc clutch, once that thing heats up it is nothing more than an on/off switch. Zero slip. I should have done the full face clutch but in the street tune I was pushing the limits of the full face SOS sport clutch. Mainly because I can now, with the added tq, I am learning to drive quicker in a higher gear and avoid the downshift, I learned I can carry more speed as I would over brake for the downshift out of fear of not getting the rev match correct. I have found more time and it is easier on the equipment to let the car pull from 4k rpm than drop the gear and have to shift again. I also have more time to focus on the line and not worry about the extra shift.

Interesting on the flip the carrier, I talked to Shad a year or two ago and he seems to think that the bearing and carrier should not be changed once the shaft had been used as the bearing/plate/cup assembly will wear to eachother, He at the time thought it was important not to change their orientation when rebuilding them. I also do not have mine vented. I will have to look into the vents.

Dave

I don't think that torque level is a problem. As you said the stock R&P is no where near as strong as an OSG.

I wonder how much improvement in strength a WPC treatment would give to the stock R&P...

You and are discussing this, are you saying, as I suspect, it needs the Giken and the the torq will be fine. Because thats what I think as well, as I told you in the text.
Any luck on that front ?

I'm at Nicks, next 2 days is your car. Brakes are done, killer stuff....Then my gearbox and a timing belt for a customer.
I'll call you in the next day or two.

stuntman said:

I don't think that torque level is a problem. As you said the stock R&P is no where near as strong as an OSG.

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Not to sound arrogant, but I find that the triple plate easy to drive on the street and track. But we all drive differently.
I like the no BS hook up. On slicks its what you want. Breaking gearboxes because of it now.

Evan at EXEDY is building me a different custom clutch right now thats going in once Nick and I rebuild the box this week. Its going to be a twin plate CF set up that will not transfer as much shock to the ring and pinion as does the puck disc's but will hold the torq. So I'm looking forward to seeing how this tests out next month at WHP West. But the fact remains, HP means nothing without torq. Torq is what makes something fast quickly. Thats racing.

Its been awhile since you and I have been on track together, looking forward to seeing you out there soon to see how much you've improved.
Are you going to Spring Mountain or Big Willow with NASA-AZ & NASA-SoCal crossovers ?

I will be at both instructing and running in TT.

And not to take away anything Shad is doing, because I like Shad, just as I do Cody and anyone else hard headed enough to campaign a NSX. I do this 12+ times a year, 48+ sessions a year. Test radiators, motors, Turbo, SC's, clutches, my patience, my wife understanding and just about everyone of my friends that work so hard to keep my NSX on track. When someone else does it as much as we do, I'm all ears. It takes a lot to put a NSX through the abuse I do on a regular basis, lots of trail and error to be fast....LOL...Ask Ken...

I learned about venting axles from Fes. FXMD was breaking axles long before I was. Then I started breaking them. Fes from FXMD taught me how to build them so not to break them. Have never broken one since.
I posted a tread awhile back on venting axles. It shows what is done.

Good to see you still out there.
Hope to be out there with you again soon David.

DDozier said:

Never had an issue with Heal-toe in any of my other NSX untill I went with the 6-puc clutch, once that thing heats up it is nothing more than an on/off switch. Zero slip. I should have done the full face clutch but in the street tune I was pushing the limits of the full face SOS sport clutch. Mainly because I can now, with the added tq, I am learning to drive quicker in a higher gear and avoid the downshift, I learned I can carry more speed as I would over brake for the downshift out of fear of not getting the rev match correct. I have found more time and it is easier on the equipment to let the car pull from 4k rpm than drop the gear and have to shift again. I also have more time to focus on the line and not worry about the extra shift.

Interesting on the flip the carrier, I talked to Shad a year or two ago and he seems to think that the bearing and carrier should not be changed once the shaft had been used as the bearing/plate/cup assembly will wear to eachother, He at the time thought it was important not to change their orientation when rebuilding them. I also do not have mine vented. I will have to look into the vents.

Dave

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Regan,
That should be done regardless on several of the internal pieces. R & P would be a waste of time and money. It transfers all the power to the ground through the axles & Tires, WPC will not improve the inertial force impact that the oem R & P takes as to brute stress. Not enough to matter anyway.

Rebuilt the halfshafts yesterday, driver side in great shape but that is to be expected as it was rebuilt at the end of the last season with new joints and Redline, the passenger side while the shaft was refreshed with new grease and boots no parts were damaged last year so I just cleaned and changed the grease and put it back in service. This year after 1 event at COTA and the passenger shaft has one damaged bearing on the inner joint. I replaced both joints and changed the boots and redline grease. I did add the vents during the rebuild so we will see if that helps. This damaged joint made no noise and my only indication that there was a problem was on hard left handers while putting the power down on courner exit there was a slight vibration, unwind the steering wheel and as the passenger side of the car was unloading the vibration would go away.

Thanks for the heads up COZ on the vents. I am not sure but you may have me confused with another Dave but I have not hit any of the west coast tracks other than Spring Mountain at the NSXPO. So unless you have hit a few of the midwest and east coast tracks I am not sure we have been out there together. I run at Autobauhn, Putnam, Gingerman, Road America, Road Atlanta, COTA, Gateway (sucks), AMP, Barber, and Blackhawk.

Dave

Sorry about that, yes, I had you mixed up with someone else.
Great move on venting your axles, this will stop them from breaking.
It allows the heat to vent out of the axle cups, they will run cooler and not bind up anymore.
Like I said, since I started venting mine, I haven't broke an axle in over 5 years of hard track use and driving the NSX on the street as well.
Great job Dave !

FWIW, here's the thread Jim was talking about re: vented drive shafts:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...-main-chandler-az?highlight=coz+venting+axles