My tank is mounted up front bolted to that aluminum support bar where the spare tire used to be and the pump is mounted directly below that into the bottom of the spare tire well. From what I understand this is not the best location due to the distance the line has to run but it works really well. I can send a photo of the install if you pm me your email
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Water Meth injection
- Thread starter jaffaz32
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Most front engine cars mount the tank and pump in the rear. There is no issue with us mounting the tank and pump in the front. You want the pump close to the tank as the pump is designed to make pressure and not pull the fluid. You can add a check valve in the engine bay to prevent a pressure drop in the line when the pump is not running.
Dave
Dave
I'm considering moving my tank from the trunk to under the bonnet. It's just a more tidy, less obtrusive location. Howerever, I can guarantee that due to under "hood" temps (yes, the radiator fan blowing hot air in a non-ducted hood gets damn HOT) will preheat the water in the jug. I'm not sure what material difference that will make in cooling and not sure if running a line that long pre-pump will increase chances of cavitation like Dave said.
I was just thinking about your setup! I really like yours.
Mine is mounted upfront. Only issue I have had is the cap cracked once. I'm guessing from the heat. It's so hot in Florida I'm not concerned about heating up the water. Having mounted up front made the most sense for me. I store my targa in the trunk so I didn't have room
- Joined
- 4 January 2008
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Angus do you have any pictures?
My only problem with these systems is that the mechanism for injection isn't very sophisticated. The "injector", typically a simple nozzle, are quite crude compared to a fuel injector. The spray pattern and subsequent atomization is not very robust. In addition, a single point for injection leaves all kinds of room for cylinder to cylinder variation as our intake manifolds were NOT designed for wet flow.
I tend to agree fully after my engine was dissembled this weekend and suffered a cracked sleeve due to what we believe was hydrolock from meth. Meth was puddled all over my intake piping, intake manifold, tb. You can see the pics on my FI build thread. I was running the biggest jet in the kit, so possibly it was just too much, but I am going to pull the meth kit regardless. Anyone looking to buy one?
I agree with this as well. I use the smallest nozzle and spray 100% water but at the highest pressure possible. If the water runs out, hydrolocks, or pump cavitates, it just runs hotter IAT which my EMS or even the OEM ECU, can cope with. In the name of safety, I recommend using water for cooling but I don't have the cajones to use meth to augment fuel. I'd rather go E85 at that point.
With that said, 90% of the owners I know do not use the NSX as a daily driver.. so for the occasional trip, your chances of a component failing are greatly reduced over time.
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I tend to agree fully after my engine was dissembled this weekend and suffered a cracked sleeve due to what we believe was hydrolock from meth. Meth was puddled all over my intake piping, intake manifold, tb. You can see the pics on my FI build thread. I was running the biggest jet in the kit, so possibly it was just too much, but I am going to pull the meth kit regardless. Anyone looking to buy one?
Running the largest nozzle was the reason for the puddles. Using a smaller nozzle with a higher pump pressure will get the best atomization without puddles and best performance from the water/meth kit.
You need to flow enough fluid to either cool the charge air or provided the needed knock control based on your tune. Once you know the flow rate needed you can devide that by two and use two smaller nozzles to meet the same flow rate of a single larger nozzle. Smaller nozzles mean better final mix of air and meth. Also two nozzles vs a single nozzle offers some level of safety against a clogged nozzle.
Dave
From what I can see.. the guys saying the smallest injectors (like me) are on low boost.
Pick the flow rate for your power levels.
I'm still of the opinion of using water to augment cooling only. I'm too chicken sh*t to use it for fuel
Pick the flow rate for your power levels.
I'm still of the opinion of using water to augment cooling only. I'm too chicken sh*t to use it for fuel
- Joined
- 28 November 2009
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Ok that makes sense.
Because i will have a boost controller with very low boost for minimum stress on the engine and high boost (400whp).
Shall i have the car tuned with the methanol connected or not? It may be a stupid question but...
If you set the controller so that it's not injecting while on the low boost when i switch to high boost because the controller will be in range it will be injecting. On a FIC you can't have two tunes, so do you tune for without methonal and when it injects it's a added bonus or tune with methanol but when in low boost it may be running lean because it's tuned for methanol. Does that make sense?
Because i will have a boost controller with very low boost for minimum stress on the engine and high boost (400whp).
Shall i have the car tuned with the methanol connected or not? It may be a stupid question but...
If you set the controller so that it's not injecting while on the low boost when i switch to high boost because the controller will be in range it will be injecting. On a FIC you can't have two tunes, so do you tune for without methonal and when it injects it's a added bonus or tune with methanol but when in low boost it may be running lean because it's tuned for methanol. Does that make sense?
With the F/IC you can have two tunes. A switch is wired to an input on the F/IC and depending on the position of the switch will determine what tune you are running. However I do not tune for meth with the F/IC. I tune the car for peak power without the meth and the car at normal IATs. The OEM ECU will pull more timing due to the higher IATs so the car will make less power but the tune will be safer if you ever ran out of meth or the system malfunctioned.
Then I turn the meth controller on and adjust the boost controller to spray at about 2lbs of boost. Choose the smallest nozzle that will control the IATs. If the AFRs do not move to much then you are done. Otherwise more tuning needs to be done. With IATs under control the OEM ECU will add timing and the car will make more power. The mixture of meth and distilled water is recommended as the water cools the air more effectively and the meth raises the octane of the fuel mixture and limits knock.
Dave
- Joined
- 28 November 2009
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I agree. I have tried both medium nozzle and small. There is no temp drop difference. Since I'm using this just for cooling the smaller is a much better choice. The more meth you spray the richer the A/F becomes. The water/meth is a great option but is very limited. I have achieved a 25 degree drop I'm intake temps. I live in Florida so I need it. Without it I have seen intake temps in the 200'sFrom what I can see.. the guys saying the smallest injectors (like me) are on low boost.
Pick the flow rate for your power levels.
I'm still of the opinion of using water to augment cooling only. I'm too chicken sh*t to use it for fuel
My guess without knowing your setup is you are spraying you meth/water before the blower. If that is the case then I would expect your results. Spraying before the blower will help a little but will make the system much less effective.
I have just finished setting up a ctsc that was spraying before the blower, now we are spraying after the blower and we were seeing IATs of 120‘ or less after 5 - 6 full 4th gear pulls on the dyno. We made no change to the tune, sprayed 1/3 the total amount of fluid and made 25rwhp accross the entire run.
Dave
Wow. That's great information. Where exactly did you set up
the nozzle to spray? Mine currently is right before the TB.
It is a protptype piece I had machined to fit between the intake and the blower discharge. This was V.1 of the piece and everything went perfect. We are making a few small changes in the nozel placement and the fittings themselves and then it goes into production. Right now we have the older Whipple based system, and then we will make the changes for the Autorotor Based CTSC.
There are a few issues, 1. the blower height is raised about 3/4" and that means you will likely have a problem with the blower rubbing the engine cover, the test car does not run an engine cover so I do not know for sure either way. 2. CTSCs have several different bypass designs that they used over time, so a small piece of 1.5" silicone tube may be needed to account for the new blower height on some of the kits. 3. a longer belt may be needed to account for the raised blower height. 4. With the Whipple longer studs needed to be installed to hold the blower but they will be included with the kit.
We did this on a 91 coupe so I have no idea what other issues could arrise from a Targe brace, we did not have to change the belt as it was running a high boost pulley and the adjuster was tensioned to its extreem limit, now the belt adjuster is at the other extreem full loose limit and the same belt could be used. Install is simple once the blower is removed, the intake can stay in place so no fuel lines or vac lines need be disturbed. For those running Meth on a CTSC this is the best method we could devise without the removal of the entire system and machining the original intake, that would take the process out of the DIY arena and would cost a lot if you hired a shop to bo the work.
Dave
