Should I ditch the e-brake?

I've had a bit of back and forth with WP regarding the e-brake on a BBK. I always thought the emergency brake was good to have in case of well.... An emergency. If the hydraulic system fails, there is always a mechanical linkage I can use and by yanking the shit out of the lever, I can at least get the car to slow if not stop. WP is insisting that first of all, that brake failure is something I should not worry too much about because sudden failure to zero braking force in case of a leak just doesn't happen. And that using the "parking brake" will "destabilize" the car (I've used the e brake plenty of times to slow on the street on other cars for various reasons, one of them being I didn't want to squeal to a stop). I've also, in my youth and don't laugh, passed cops at above the speed limit and decided it is better to slow down without flashing my brake lights. Never had any issues. I've never tried slowing from 100 on the track.

The whole e-brake caliper on an NSX adds a lot of cost and complexity, and also weight. Being I love saving weight for various psychological OCD issues, can I just not install the ebrake kit. You can't use it on hot rotors after coming off anyway... So is It ok to just not have them? Will they really not help in case of brake failure?

I guess it would put the possibility of a keyless or remote start out of the question. I don't know. How wise is this move. Please enlighten me.

Used on parking on hills.

CL65 Captain said:

Used on parking on hills.

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Jim can you elaborate? Are you saying this is all it's good for? You don't think it can save you?

I ditched my ebrake and it rolled into my fence. Wish I was kidding. Thought I was super careful but that one day... It can happen

I think Jim is saying how are you going to park the car on hills without it rolling away.

RYU said:

I ditched my ebrake and it rolled into my fence. Wish I was kidding. Thought I was super careful but that one day... It can happen

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Why did you ditch it?

I didnt run an e brake on my old track only car, Not a big deal if you ALWAYS will be parking the car on a flat or you ALWAYS remember to wheel chalk it and leave it in gear. I wouldn't recommend doing this on a car that will be parked at a slant. Binding a gear to keep the car stationary isnt good for a transmission. you can always down shift to slow the car in an emergency situation too.

As I recall Boston ain't exactly flat. Keep your e-brake.

WP is suggesting a hydraulic e-brake a la what the drift guys use. Their calipers are dual input. But... I am not sure how my car is setup as far as channels and how this would work. I think an older NSX would but not my 05, right?

I would think think the ebrake is for extra piece of mind... God forbid if you were parking and fotget to put the car in gear or your cr was parked and gets hit and it pops out of gear... You don't want to be chasing your car down the street hoping that there's no damage

If it's a street car, you want the lightest, most effective brake possible. Why do you need a hydraulic ebrake setup to keep your <3,000 lb NSX rolling off a hill???

I've been reading all the WP "recommendations". Who are these guys... Half the things I hear they recommend don't make sense.. or don't work. Perhaps its me and my small brain

The reason for the hydraulic is that it gets rid of the ebrake caliper, but you still have a parking brake. There is a second input on the caliper. Uncommon but there on all WP calipers. They've been around for 30+ years but concentrated a lot on OEM'ing for other companies. I have to get the details but I remember Sam there telling me the stoptech ST-40 was even designed by them. Their EX-6R is lighter than the ST trophy. The caliper I'm soon receiving is nearly half a pound lighter than the EX-6R.

The NSX has two separate lines - LF/RR & RF/LF.

The chance of complete failure is minimized. Would I park on a hill hoping leaving it in gear would keep it there? No. Do I think the e-brake would save me in case of hydraulic failure? No, unless I didn't mind spinning off backwards. On the track an e-brake is absolutely, totally, completely worthless. In order to use the e-brake you have to be going straight and have lots and lots and lots of room to modulate it slowly to come to a stop going straight.

Would I get rid of it on a track car? Yes. Would I get it rid of it for a street/track car? No.

So Dave, which is... are you building a street car or a track car? Sooner or later you have to make that distinction and stop "fiddling".

LOL... Don't F*** with my hobby Jim. That's good into though you guys definitely talked me out of a ditch of them. I don't want to go into a fence Ryu Stylez. I will keep the caliper for now and see what they come up with for a hydraulic solution if any.

TURBO2GO said:

The reason for the hydraulic is that it gets rid of the ebrake caliper, but you still have a parking brake. There is a second input on the caliper.

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Ah! I knew I suffered from small brain syndrome!

I looked into that kind of braking system before. They are not dissimilar to "line lockers". Ultimately i'd never run them because I don't want that constant pressure on my brake components (lines, piston seals, o-rings, pads, etc...). Just imagine what prolonged high pressure in your bake lines does during 3 months of winter (not that you'd keep your ebrake engaged for that long but just saying)

Might need it to pass inspection.

RYU said:

Ah! I knew I suffered from small brain syndrome!

I looked into that kind of braking system before. They are not dissimilar to "line lockers". Ultimately i'd never run them because I don't want that constant pressure on my brake components (lines, piston seals, o-rings, pads, etc...). Just imagine what prolonged high pressure in your bake lines does during 3 months of winter (not that you'd keep your ebrake engaged for that long but just saying)

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How is the pressure or lack of any different? are you talking about when the brake is engaged for parking? There are many OEM's using this now you know. I don't know how much of a concern that is. Those push button e-brakes on cars now, do they not operate on the same principle?

TURBO2GO said:

How is the pressure or lack of any different? are you talking about when the brake is engaged for parking? There are many OEM's using this now you know. I don't know how much of a concern that is. Those push button e-brakes on cars now, do they not operate on the same principle?

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Yes, when parking brake is engaged.

I don't know how the new push button OEM ones work but I guarantee they are designed from the get go to accommodate it. Our NSX was not. Probably have check valves etc... If you find out how the new OEM ones work please let us know.

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just imagine what happens when you stomp on your pedal constantly for a long time. If you have ever rebuilt a brake caliper or Master Cylinder like I have you'll know how delicate those seals are and you wouldn't want to do this.

Another major issue is with the hydraulic design e-brake you are now tying the two systems together mechanically. So if you have a failure in the line feeding the e-brake fitting you have an open hydraulic line in the main braking system. Not a good idea for a street or race car. If you want an e-brake keep the two systems separate. This type of setup is better suited to rally or drift cars.

I have not had an e-brake on my last two NSX, but that is not because I think it is better I just refuse to pay $1000.00 for the Brembo add on e-brake. If it does not make you go faster I have a hard time spending the cash.

Dave

I love the "What if" threads they give us something to new read

DDozier said:

Another major issue is with the hydraulic design e-brake you are now tying the two systems together mechanically. So if you have a failure in the line feeding the e-brake fitting you have an open hydraulic line in the main braking system.

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I am not sure this is true Dave. I think this was designed from the ground up with this purpose in mind and they may have a check valve or some design in the caliper that can mechanically separate the two. I will ask.