EOI Sequential gearset for NSX

Hi there,

We are currently working with a gearbox manufacturer developing a sequential gearbox solution for our race car and we're hoping to be able to create a gearset that will fit inside the OEM 5 speed casing.........

Now we're going to go ahead with either the gearset in OEM case or a whole new transaxle regardless for our needs, however the guys making it wondered if they can indeed create a gearset to fit inside the OEM casings who would be interested in such a product ??

Even though our needs are for race only, they would be looking to make a gearset more suited to road / race rather than pure racing (helical cut gears instead of straight cut).

If they can get a gearset done to go inside the OEM casing they are hoping to be around the $ 10-12K USD mark.......... is that interesting to some ?? Just trying to gauge likelihood of people purchasing something I they're going to spend time developing a version for the road. Our version will be paddle shifted, but I'm sure they can make a version with a gearstick and also offer paddles if you'd prefer.

f1racr said:

Hi there,

We are currently working with a gearbox manufacturer developing a sequential gearbox solution for our race car and we're hoping to be able to create a gearset that will fit inside the OEM 5 speed casing.........

Now we're going to go ahead with either the gearset in OEM case or a whole new transaxle regardless for our needs, however the guys making it wondered if they can indeed create a gearset to fit inside the OEM casings who would be interested in such a product ??

Even though our needs are for race only, they would be looking to make a gearset more suited to road / race rather than pure racing (helical cut gears instead of straight cut).

If they can get a gearset done to go inside the OEM casing they are hoping to be around the $ 10-12K USD mark.......... is that interesting to some ?? Just trying to gauge likelihood of people purchasing something I they're going to spend time developing a version for the road. Our version will be paddle shifted, but I'm sure they can make a version with a gearstick and also offer paddles if you'd prefer.

Click to expand...

I am always looking for something different, especially in the sequential category. Helical cut gears can be made for high hp cars. The Albins forged helical synchro sets have been used in 1000whp drag cars without a failure yet. They are much friendlier on the case bearings and the bellhousing because it reduces shaft separation. How do you plan on setting up the shift forks for sequential operation in the factory case? Will they be servo engaged? That would be worth buying indeed for a street/strip car!

The manufacturers don't have a box to inspect yet so no idea what can or can't be done. I have no doubt that helical gears can be made strong enough and so can the casings to hold them with large loads........ I think in the interest of only making one product though we will stick with helical gears.

We may look at a straight cut gear set later with a lighter casing, but for now just the one design if it's even possible............ not sure anything is possible yet.......... we need to look at the OEM stuff when it gets to the manufacturers in San Diego.

I don't care what you are working on, but that NSX looks sweet !!!

LOL thanks Teej.....

Some prefer it before we put it's decals on.

Real car, apparently...

Everyone knows race cars are the only "real" cars........... well that's what your wife thinks so that's good enough for me

Fraser isn't there a sequential already available? Robfenn is running one.

.................but it sounds like Fraser et al is trying to retrofit a system into the existing bell housing......making the possibility of a "kit" for sale to others.

Yep DocJohn is right......... we obviously wanted the cheapest option for our needs and also for the guys developing it, it would be worth their while if they knew there was a market for them and for that to happen it has to be cheap in relative terms.

To give you an idea the gearbox that Robfen runs is around $ 40-45,000 USD !! Yes 45,000 USD....... so not realistic for us or anyone else really I'd imagine ! It's the same as what the JGTC cars use so no doubt worth the money for top level racing, but not for what we can afford.

Lol my sense is Robfen has much bigger pockets than most of us:redface:

well 10-12 sounds pretty good but then... what do I heel and toe with? LOL... Man I hope you can get this made. I am not sure I need one now but you know me... I have to keep buying things.

........12k is right in your mod wheel house Dave......btw if you did do this get the stick option,it will suit some of your desire to keep on shifting.

Serious interest here. I injured my left ankle many years ago (I really gotta lay off the sports) which makes my NSX an option to drive only in the "good days". I would love a sequential, paddle shifted trans. But I have a few questions...

1. Solenoid actuated fork?
2. What kind of programming on the tranny ECU? Will it be like the 1st gen BMW SMG which was great for the track but SUPER clunky for the street. I know this was derived first for racing purposes and i'm not trying to tear down your effort (which is awesome) but i'm trying to ascertain the viability of this for a street car.
3. No clutch then, right?
4. Will this be limited to 5 forward speeds? or 6, or even 7? I'm assuming it'll be a 5spd to keep some strength in the gears.
5. Do they need an 5spd trans to test? I have 2 extra ones that require rebuild anyway. I'm also in San Diego regularly so I can potentially help with this effort.

Is this new sequential gearset going to have dog rings instead of synchros?

RYU - if it has dog rings, and if they configure it to have a single actuation (pull for upshift, push for downshift), you can use an ECU like Motec with a strain gauge to have no-lift upshifts and blipped throttle no-clutch downshifts. Or you can get a pneumatic actuator and have a paddleshift system which alone I think is over 10K for the system that most DP and GT cars run in IMSA. I've always thought about this for my NSX as well but i'm kind of leaning toward the idea of always leaving it as a true manual and enjoying my DCT M3 for that use.

DCT transmissions are the way of the future, so consider an M3/M4 in the future for a very trackable awesome street car. Ford/Chevy will be coming out with an 8-speed auto which i'm sure will make its way into mustangs and vettes and i'm sure will be quite good.

Billy do you prefer paddles to shift stick? Do some sequential boxes still require a manual clutch?

True sequential racing cars have 3 pedals and you need to use the clutch when starting from a stop. As of now, there really aren't any DCT transmissions racing.

That's a tough one. I think each have their merits and enjoyment. Stick is more completely engaging and on the street where you're not at 10/10ths, there's no question it's more involved and fun. However on track, a DCT/paddle shifts quicker, often has more gears than a stick, and allows the driver to be more precise in DRIVING the car.

There's more room for mistakes (slow shifts, mis-shifts, longer braking zones, etc...) with a stick and racing in the IMSA GS class that i'm in makes it fun and 'pure'. However in a class with paddles, you have to be FAR more precise as slight mistakes impact your lap times a lot more. So at the end of the day, DCT/paddles when racing allows the driver to not only shift faster but to drive more precisely but it also makes the driver have to be that much more perfect in their driving and perform at a higher level.

Supercars these days are so fast that it's kind of pointless to have a manual. If you want that 'purity' then buy a stick in a slower car that makes you feel like you're going faster. I can be going the speed limit on a mountain road in a miata on tiny tires and be having a blast like i'm in a race, while i'd fall asleep at the wheel in a modern sports car doing the same speed.

When I started racing all I wanted was to drive cars with a dogbox and a sequential. Then I though a no-lift-shift would be amazing, then I wanted paddle shifters like F1 cars. Now, I still love paddle-shifters and I still like working 3 pedals.

I will always have a manual transmission car, but for a daily, i'd rather have a DCT (especially in traffic). I can respect both sides of the argument and would personally just have both if I could.

stuntman said:

Supercars these days are so fast that it's kind of pointless to have a manual. If you want that 'purity' then buy a stick in a slower car that makes you feel like you're going faster. I can be going the speed limit on a mountain road in a miata on tiny tires and be having a blast like i'm in a race, while i'd fall asleep at the wheel in a modern sports car doing the same speed.

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that is how I felt when I drove a MP4-12C the other day. The saying is true: its more fun drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
Straight gears are really loud especially the car has a enclosed cockpit. Unlike the exhaust note, the "mono-tone"/frequency of the dog gears are more or less in the same range so after awhile, its hard to bear and it keeps you awake and my ears ring for a long time like tinnitus.

Most of the noise comes from the straight cut gear's 'whine'. I don't think helical-cut gears with dog rings are very loud atall.

What I gained in knowledge (because when Billy talks, I listen) : for the price of this transmission, I should just buy a Miata and have more fun.

Juice said:

What I gained in knowledge (because when Billy talks, I listen) : for the price of this transmission, I should just buy a Miata and have more fun.

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you learn quick.you can buy a few miatas and when you crash, its not expensive to repair.

Fraser why are you wanting to do this? Are the lap times that close and important that the manual is slowing you down?

^that's quite funny coming from you Dave after all your mods.
like all of us Fraser is looking to make the car the best it can be without spending the cost of a small house on it so one of these as another mod is no different to say ceramic brakes, hell if i had the spare cash right now he would have a deposit

Thanks for your input Billy.I'm sure there are a few people that did not realize you still have a clutch pedal with the sequential gearbox.That was my point to Dave.I think its pretty cool to just push and pull that stick and only really need the clutch getting going and maybe on some downshifts.

I don't think that Robfenn's Hewland has a clutch. I could be wrong. Scammy I hear what you are saying but Fraser has a lot more dedicated track car than I do. Perhape the extra 10th's he shaves matter to him.

I don't know much about these things. I'm going to sit back and read and learn.