Which tire would offer more grip a ADO8r 215/40/17 or a more narrow 205/40/17 R888? If price and wear is not a factor. Thanks
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ADO8R vs R888
- Thread starter nsxtreme91
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The R888 is an R compound track tire and will offer more grip - assuming that it's fully warmed up, as it would be on the track.
On the street, the AD08R may provide as much grip on dry pavement (since both will be cool) and more grip on wet pavement.
I'd want the R888 on the track, the AD08R on the street.
On the street, the AD08R may provide as much grip on dry pavement (since both will be cool) and more grip on wet pavement.
I'd want the R888 on the track, the AD08R on the street.
That sounds like a very fair honest answer, makes good sense. Thanks.....nsxtasy
From what I've researched on these tires I have to agree with Ken, AD-08 did very well in the dry and wet testing against ZIIs, R-S3s, Pilot Sports, etc. So AD-08 would be a much better choice for the street than R888. You don't want to get caught in heavy rain with 50 miles of highway between you and home on R888s.
Thanks NSXonwheels.... and your right about the heavy rain that would not be fun.
FWIW "R compound" is starting to mean less and less eveyday. It's an arbitrary UTQG rating of 140 or less... so if your tire is 150, it is not technically an "R compound" anymore but a "street" tire. Ultra high performance street tires keep inching closer to dedicated track tires all the time, and "track day" tires are inching towards more of a street tire all the time as the owners like to drive their cars to and from the track, in the rain, etc. My experience is that the problem is strictly standing water, not "wet". There is still enormous grip in an R888 so long as you are not in any sort of standing water. But it still has other problems such as noise, a harsh ride, and horrible wear. I also found my Nitto NT01, the R888's twin, to really lose traction after a few heat cycles and some wear. My AD08's on the other hand, stayed consistent. Trust me you can have an R888 not give you as much grip even in the dry as an AD08R might. In general this is the difference I have found with most "high end" brands versus the less known brands. I even have had Federals and Nankangs.... and the shitty and cheap nankang had an amazing level of grip... until hot... in a 10 minute drift session it changed behavior completely it's as if I was in a different car. My front AD08 was rock solid still. So just some of my impressions, whatever they are worth.
Thanks Kevgk.... for your input.
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Thanks TURBO2GO.... for your insight
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Thanks TURBO2GO.... for your insight
I am not aware of any formal definition for the term "R compound" (although you may be right). From my experience, the term "R compound" is normally used for tires designed for track/competition/autocross use and not designed for street use, such as all of those in the three Tire Rack performance categories:
- Racetrack & Autocross Only
- Wet Racetrack & Autocross Only
- Streetable Track & Competition
I assume you are using the term "ultra high performance" generically, and not the specific way the Tire Rack does (where it's a budget/performance category for summer tires, and the highest performance category for all-season tires).
I agree that there are more and more, and better and better, performance street tires, in the "extreme performance summer tire" category, that are closer in performance to R compound tires than other categories and than earlier such tires. However, I have not seen a proliferation of more streetable R compound tires (like the Toyo RA-1); if anything, the direction R compound tires has gone in, in general, is more and more of the stickiest R compound tires like the Hoosiers, with only one or two circumferential tread grooves. I am aware that Tire Rack has broken out that last category above, supposedly representing more streetable R compounds, but my experience is that that distinction doesn't make much sense, especially since the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup and Yoko A048 are in the streetable category but aren't especially streetable, and the Toyo RA-1 is about the most streetable R compound you can get, but isn't in the streetable category.
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I've ran the R888 and ADVAN A048 on the truck (paid $100 each during the winter months - off season) for street driving (my commute vehicle).
The R888 was warmed up by the time my truck was in operating temps.
A048 and all of the other Yokohama tires just took forever to warm up. They cooled down fast too. I just never felt confident whether or not it was warm enough for a fast swooping turn on and off the freeway ramp like I did with the R888.
The ONLY thing that I wished the R888 had was a stiffer sidewall like the A048.
And yes, I actually drove both tires in light rain at freeway speeds and the R888 seemed to grip better.
I've used the AD07 on the NSX and it did a decent job in the rain, but same story to the A048 experience - was never that confident with regards to tire temps warming up fast enough or did it cool down too fast.
Ken most clubs and sanctioning bodies are now defining R comp specifically as "any tire with a UTQG rating of 140 or less". They had to give the term definition because the classes requiring R comp or street was getting too vague.
And yes by ultra high performance I just meant very high performance not any of the Tire Rack's dozen goofy ultra maximum super duper extreme terms.
And yes by ultra high performance I just meant very high performance not any of the Tire Rack's dozen goofy ultra maximum super duper extreme terms.
Okay. I'm sure those going to the track will continue to use the term to apply to tires not designed for street use.
Incidentally, I'm not aware of any track tire with a treadwear rating higher than 100. (In fact, many R comps don't have treadwear ratings at all.) I'm surprised they would lump street tires with a 140 rating into the R comp category.
Yeah it's very arbitrary but it's being done. All the terms seem to be becoming vague. I really don't know what to call anything anymore. Even if you say "track tire" that too is vague...you throw one groove onto a slick and it's dot compliant. You can say "competition tire" as a category but technically many "competition" tires are in fact road legal.
You heat cycle NT01s out sooner than R888?
Are you asking me? The R888 was not on my car. So I don't know. I wasn't trying to imply one heat cycles faster than the other, just saying my NT01 doesn't seem to have much grip anymore.
How many heat cycles? IMO the nt01 is one of the more consistent tires out there.
About 6? But I think my mistake was I stored them outside during a winter and it got brutally cold here. I don't mean to say they are terrible now, but they have nowhere near the same grip they had.
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That's probably the issue. 6 cycles is nothing for them and they shouldn't fall off significantly.
I agree. My NT01s gripped until corded. I didn't have any issues with heat cycling the NT01s.
Batman, R888s optimum grip is when the tire is in 160°F to 220°F range (per Toyo). There is NO WAY you can get a tire up to these temps just driving without extreme aggressive cornering, ie creating a slip angle which causes friction and thus heat. This is why you see race cars weaving back and forth aggressively before restarts.
If your tires don't have a gravely appearance and texture to them like this pic, then you aren't even close to getting them up to the optimal temps.
Out of curiosity, I checked my tire temps using a probe type pyrometer and just "normal" street driving for a half hour. On a 94 degree day they were in the 110F range after a half hour.
This is why a street tire should be used for mostly street driving and a track tire should be left to the track. To get a R-Comp up to it's optimum range you have to be really pushing it hard and consistently. Tire temps fall off pretty quick once you come off the track, which is why you need to have someone in the hot pits to take the temps before you take your cool down laps in order to get accurate temps.
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LOL yeah anything above 8 degrees is a "heat cycle" when you live in boston. Frankly I forgot about them and the temps here dipped below Zero. They specifically say not to do that and I did so I am certain this was an issue.
Batman, R888s optimum grip is when the tire is in 160°F to 220°F range (per Toyo). There is NO WAY you can get a tire up to these temps just driving without extreme aggressive cornering, ie creating a slip angle which causes friction and thus heat. This is why you see race cars weaving back and forth aggressively before restarts.
If your tires don't have a gravely appearance and texture to them like this pic, then you aren't even close to getting them up to the optimal temps.
<img src="http://members.rennlist.org/m758/_tHC3-RR.jpg"/>.....
My tires did start to look like that mid-way and towards the end of life before they were replaced with a set of g-Force Sport COMP-2 that was given to me as a gift by one of my buddies.
I live in the hills. I do mash threw the corners before I hit the freeway, which I do drive pretty dam hard and fast. Freeway on and off ramps I'm hitting speeds of 45MPH with ease. Occasionally push 50MPH. Very few stock cars have been able to keep up with the truck on the turns. I've had a few thumbs up and mostly puzzled looks.
Bat have you ever been on the track? on ramps and street hills are not even remotely close. I think Jim's point is that for you to reach proper operating temps on those tires you'd have to clear the streets of all traffic, then drive like a complete asshole for a long period of time as they slowly come up to temp. I am not even sure a truck has the capability to reach the speeds and cornering forces needed to heat them up. I mean... if you like them that's cool, but I don't think Jim's point can be invalidated by saying you drive hard on the street. I can't even get my tires to heat up properly at autocross!
Back in the late '90's and early '00s I used to take my 430rwhp FD to Laguna. So yes.
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We haven't had much luck with the 888 here and while they aren't terrible, I wouldn't use them again since they tend to heat cycle out very quickly.
I would much rather use the AD08R and I myself am running the NT01s which are far superior and would say they are best overall tire when price, durability and consistency come into play.
Sure you can get the 888s cheaper, but I've found that their grip levels go from good to right around Dunlop Star Specs after a few events and my track car, a 2,000lb Civic starts to protest with lots of understeer.
No such issue with the NT01s - which I currently use in a 235/40/17 front and 275/35/18 rear on the NSX.
I would much rather use the AD08R and I myself am running the NT01s which are far superior and would say they are best overall tire when price, durability and consistency come into play.
Sure you can get the 888s cheaper, but I've found that their grip levels go from good to right around Dunlop Star Specs after a few events and my track car, a 2,000lb Civic starts to protest with lots of understeer.
No such issue with the NT01s - which I currently use in a 235/40/17 front and 275/35/18 rear on the NSX.
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