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The perfect set of sensor/gauges

RYU

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I need your help to organize my sensor display. What would you use?



My HKS F-Con iS (piggyback) setup allows for a 6 sensor x 3 screen display. This means each screen can display 6 sensor readings only; 3 screens available.



I foresee practical usages for each screen as follows:

Screen 1 - Used for Street Driving/Cruising and focuses on efficiency

Screen 2 - Used at the track and focuses on safety

Screen 3 - Used when tuning and focuses on peak power production and health

Optional Screen 4 - This shows all the readouts in sort of the old style DOS display. Its T.M.I. when driving unless you have a passenger.



Below are the parameters available for display. Each sensor can be duplicated on different screens if needed.
  • RPM
  • Air Flow / Air Pressure (from OEM MAP)
  • Throttle %
  • Water Temp (OEM Sensor)
  • Intake Air Temp (OEM Sensor)
  • Vehicle Speed
  • Vehicle Voltage
  • Main Injector Output
  • Air Fuel Ratio
  • Knock Level
  • Boost / Vaccum
  • Fuel Pressure
  • Oil Pressure
  • Oil Temp
  • Exhaust Temp
  • Ignition Timing
  • A/F Trim


How would you guys setup Screen 1 vs. 2 vs. 3?



Here's a sample of the visual display. The bar graph is green when cold. It's setup yellow when optimal. It glows red when exceeds limits. Each parameter is configurable from my laptop.



regan-yu-s-jdm-acura-nsx-59007_zpsc8cba941.jpg
 
To me I want to be safe on the street, and safe on the track. Tuning is completely different, and you shouldn't be limiting yourself to just 6 gauges when tuning anyway. Your laptop should be displaying all parameters when making a pull and at idle before the the pull.

RPM

Air Flow / Air Pressure (from OEM MAP)

Throttle %

Water Temp (OEM Sensor)

Intake Air Temp (OEM Sensor)

Vehicle Speed

Vehicle Voltage

Main Injector Output

Air Fuel Ratio

Knock Level

Boost / Vaccum

Fuel Pressure

Oil Pressure

Oil Temp

Exhaust Temp

Ignition Timing

A/F Trim

I choose these six because you need to protect your motor over knowing how fast you are. Removing your cluster and adding a Racepak, Aim, Dashdaq, etc will give you more options to show more gauges. I'm sure you already know that, but it is just a suggestion. I'm thinking of dropping my cluster eventually for one. I love the Aim MXG.
 
Appreciate the feedback! Agree that in tuning I actually have two laptops going. One connected to the ECU and the other connected to a redundant sensor pack from Zietronix. It's simply for added safety because you never know when a sensor isn't working properly. I'm pretty much done tuning so the Zietronix will be removed soon.

While I agree you've likely highlighted the readouts most important if I could only use 6 of them. I can essentially use 18 but only 6 at a time. Therefore, I'm leaning towards this config. Happy to hear anyone's thoughts and again, appreciate the feedback.

Screen 1 - I don't really drive too hard on the street and a lot of times i'm concerned with what the motor is doing in Closed Loop and how efficient I can drive the car. I'm thinking of configuring it this way.
  • RPM
  • TPS
  • ECT
  • Voltage
  • AFR
  • Vacuum/Boost

Screen 2 - I plan to use only this screen at the track. Afterall, I certainly don't want the distraction of swapping screens on-track. Here's what i'm thinking would be best to monitor the health of the motor
  • ECT
  • Oil Temp
  • Oil Pressure
  • IAT
  • AFR
  • Fuel Pressure or TPS or Boost or EGT (I'm unsure which is best to use here)

Screen 3 - I would use this screen when I don't have a laptop available but would like to see how the car is reacting at WOT (for example)
  • ECT (I'm running an ECT fuel trim compensation table)
  • IAT (I'm also running an IAT compensation table)
  • AFR
  • Boost
  • Fuel Pressure
  • Knock Level or Injector Duty Cycle

Any thoughts?
 
Water temp on the street lets me know when I need to pull over to the side of the road or into a gas station before warping a head. Same with on the track. I think water temp is invaluable, and have used that more than most daily.

IAT to me is low on the list for safety, but high for performance. Can you explain to me why you think it is a top 6 for your motor in Screen 2? Maybe I just am not seeing it from your point of view.

Aren't you spraying water with your supercharger? I would rather see a sensor that indicates when the spray is malfunctioning if you don't already have one.

Screen 3 looks spot on to me.
 
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I put TPS on my tiny screen and have kept it there only for my kids' entertainment. Isn't it pretty clear to you as the driver what the throttle position is?
 
Water temp on the street lets me know when I need to pull over to the side of the road or into a gas station before warping a head. Same with on the track. I think water temp is invaluable, and have used that more than most daily.

IAT to me is low on the list for safety, but high for performance. Can you explain to me why you think it is a top 6 for your motor in Screen 2? Maybe I just am not seeing it from your point of view.

Aren't you spraying water with your supercharger? I would rather see a sensor that indicates when the spray is malfunctioning if you don't already have one.

Screen 3 looks spot on to me.
I agree with you on ECT. I have it on all screens. It's especially useful since the dash water temp gauge is really a true idiot gauge.

Even though I have an IAT correction table I've been on track and the IAT skyrocketed (past 190-210F). It's when I realize I've run out of water and need to pull in. I would like to install some kind of warning for when i'm running low on water but since i'm simply spraying water (not water/meth) then it's really not dangerous imo. I have the IAT table set to pull a lot of timing when it gets too hot so i'll feel the car perform quite different as well. My EGTs on the other hand.. that'd be a different story when all that timing is pulled. It just means time to pull in.

What's your experience with IAT?

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I put TPS on my tiny screen and have kept it there only for my kids' entertainment. Isn't it pretty clear to you as the driver what the throttle position is?
I use TPS to fine tune the driveability of my trim maps. This way I know what Throttle position occurs when something needs to be adjusted. It's kind of a "nice to know".. I agree with that. I also use it when driving long stints. Sometimes I'm thinking to myself.. why am I at 25% TPS? Then I realize.. oh.. i'm climbing a long hill. I'm usually at 12%, maintening 75mph on an even grade.
 
My experience with IAT for the track and the dyno are different. Strictly for the track I think you should think of the IAT sensor as being low priority among them all. I don't have your ecu in front of me to see exactly how it works and what fail safes are in place if any in the event that the sensor goes out. I know you have the F-Con iS or at least the last I heard you did then I would see what fail safes are set for the event that the sensor goes out. It should pull timing if it goes out. I have had an IAT sensor go out on me while on the track with my one of my weekend warrior cars and with my daily driver. In both situations it felt more like the car was driving with more weight to it. I limped home in both events with no problems at all. Even under boost it is not as big of a deal as if an injector goes or a/f suddenly spikes in one direction or the other. I've seen cars get tuned with a bad IAT and nothing happen. The chart just looks pathetic compared to the potential honestly.

You should really think about adding a sensor to your water tank to set off a light in your car somewhere when your running low on water. I would want to know if I am not spraying water. Hell, honestly I would want to know when I am about to be empty, and I would want to know if it is spraying when it isn't supposed to.
 
I can only speak about on track readouts. I only rely on dummy lights too tell me whats going on, if its not ringing beeping or lit-up I wont look at it mid session. I mean, Ill periodically glance at the oil temp but only so I can judge how many more hot laps i have until my warning will trigger and if I should do a few cool downs and find a traffic gap. With the new motor im going to run the OEM >5 oil light too another dummy gauge like I have with my water pressure warning, when I blew the oil gear the first time i didnt see the light was on for 10 or so seconds
 
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<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/medium/image78.jpg" />

These are the gauges I think are most useful on the street. They display on my iOS device and read data from the EMS via Bluetooth. I'm SOS supercharged but don't spray any meth or water so IAT is important for safety as is fuel pressure and AFRs on both banks.
 
I can only speak about on track readouts. I only rely on dummy lights too tell me whats going on, if its not ringing beeping or lit-up I wont look at it mid session. I mean, Ill periodically glance at the oil temp but only so I can judge how many more hot laps i have until my warning will trigger and if I should do a few cool downs and find a traffic gap. With the new motor im going to run the OEM >5 oil light too another dummy gauge like I have with my water pressure warning, when I blew the oil gear the first time i didnt see the light was on for 10 or so seconds
Agree on the dummy lights. Next year I hope to come up with audible warnings. Let me ask a question about your pressure warning sensors. So let's say you have a 3psi pressure switch in either your coolant or oil. I understand that when it's up to operating temp and engine speed you're higher than 3psi - not until it drops below 3psi will the alarm trigger. What happens when you're driving on the street or just warming up the car in the morning? The oil and water pressure could easily be below 3psi for several minutes. Does your alarm constantly go off?

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That looks beautiful!

image78.jpg


These are the gauges I think are most useful on the street. They display on my iOS device and read data from the EMS via Bluetooth. I'm SOS supercharged but don't spray any meth or water so IAT is important for safety as is fuel pressure and AFRs on both banks.
 
For water pressure I have a big red dummy light with no audio. I put the system pressure warning on the return hose back to the motor with the water temp sensor coming out of the motor. With this configuration it does a double duty. As the motor warms up and the t stat closed the light is on. Its a good reminder to warm the car up properly before you get on it. A while ago when i was figuring out this layout i did the math. Coincidentally a closed loop (pressurized) water system will be around 5psi @ 140* f. That happens to also be the ECU's switchover water temp parameter to allow Vtec. When the light is off youre ready too go.
 
For water pressure I have a big red dummy light with no audio. I put the system pressure warning on the return hose back to the motor with the water temp sensor coming out of the motor. With this configuration it does a double duty. As the motor warms up and the t stat closed the light is on. Its a good reminder to warm the car up properly before you get on it. A while ago when i was figuring out this layout i did the math. Coincidentally a closed loop (pressurized) water system will be around 5psi @ 140* f. That happens to also be the ECU's switchover water temp parameter to allow Vtec. When the light is off youre ready too go.
Brilliant

Will you be doing the same with your oil pressure?
 
I've been thinking about that a lot lately. when i get the car back with the new motor im going to do a bit of R&D and figure out the best place too put it and the what type of warning will be best suited for it. I believe I have two options for this. 1,In motor pressure
2, external oil system pressure (sump, exchanger, lines)

For #1 The sensor just above the OEM oil cooler plate on the USDM motors is a self grounding 5psi switch just like the one i installed into my water system. It is external to the ECU so its not feeding logic to anything and goes directly too the oil warning light on the dash board. if this is on for ANY REASON you have trouble. My plan was too basically jump this wire near the dash (or replace it all together) and have it illuminate a dummy light similar to the water light i have on the dash. When i blew the oil gear in my car it took a bit of looking too see that the oil pressure warning light was on. I want it too be an immediate and unquestionable warning if it ever happens again.

for #2 (and the part that i haven't really thought through yet) I suppose the best place for the pressure warning is anywhere after the accusump branch, Thats also currently where im reading the oil pressure figures from. the Defi unit I have has a beeper set to trigger if it goes below a 9psi. Adding another sensor here may be a bit redundant. The only benefit i can think of is just having another, more intense warning, that would trigger a few seconds before the the OEM oil pressure sensor light.

I originally had a switch that told me when the accusump was engaging but after running it for a few track events it was found too be an distracting as the system is constantly refilling and discharging. It acts as more of a pressure buffer too keep everything consistent. I did install a dummy light letting me know that the accusump is getting 12v power, it right next too the switch on the center console out of sight while on track. If the light is on then the accusump is doing its thing; I only want too know if theres a problem.

Heres my dummy light currently. Im planning on adding a blue one for water and putting the red one for the in motor oil pressure.


Sensor set up


Where im reading pressure from after the accusump t currently




 
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I meant to tell you Will. I was doing some research on proper oil temps (other people please chime in) but it looks like 200-230F would be normal for our cars. Hot would be 250-260F+

Interestingly enough, the default visual alarm settings on the HKS has the yellow zone set to flash yellow starting at 110C/230F and its set to flash red 130C/266F. I'm going to set the max red alarm at 120C or roughly 250F.
 
Not sure when i took this but it was after a session before it was too hot out too drive. Im on the upper end of things as is, maybe just my driving style when im out there. id rather go fast for 4 laps than baby it for 8 :] Ive seen highs of 285+ thats when i shut it down.

 
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Boys I would love to help with this discussion and I will as soon as have time, I am posting this so I can see this thread develope and I remember to check back in.

I can not talk now because I am off to NCM Motorsports for the tracks opening event. Wish me luck, I should have video next week.

Dave
 
Boys I would love to help with this discussion and I will as soon as have time, I am posting this so I can see this thread develope and I remember to check back in.

I can not talk now because I am off to NCM Motorsports for the tracks opening event. Wish me luck, I should have video next week.

Dave
That's awesome Dave! Have a great time
 
I meant to tell you Will. I was doing some research on proper oil temps (other people please chime in) but it looks like 200-230F would be normal for our cars. Hot would be 250-260F+

Interestingly enough, the default visual alarm settings on the HKS has the yellow zone set to flash yellow starting at 110C/230F and its set to flash red 130C/266F. I'm going to set the max red alarm at 120C or roughly 250F.

I wouldn't worry about the motor around 260*. I don't doubt the motor can see temps as high as 300*, but I would not want to push it higher than 280*. To me that is hot. As time has passed by motors have become a lot stronger. I worry about how parts start to act to strenuous exposure at 280*+ on older motors with aluminum parts. The oil will be fine for well past 280*. I know LS blocks that see as high as 300-305 on the track, but technology has become better over the years. You can always try to run a slightly thicker oil and run a bigger cooler if you can. Space with the NSX seems to always be limited though.

I would personally rather run smaller dual coolers that equal to a larger overall surface area than a single to try and get the temperature down below 280*. *Example*Heat is a rotary's enemy among all, and running dual coolers in most cases is more painless than running a large single as well as equally effective.
 
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Oops. I had my default HKS oil temp ranges wrong.

Green between 30C-129C
Yellow starts at 130C or 266F
Red starts at 140C or 284F

I think I'll leave those warning ranges alone. Don't see a need to change at the moment.

Jones, looks like HKS also agrees with you :)
 
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