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2016 NSX to cost same as r8?

This is relatively old news. Ted Klaus said the same at NSXPO last year. I'll be interested in any new information he might volunteer at next week's NSXPO in Ohio.
 
The "cost" will be MSRP plus the additional dealer markup. I am afraid that when they first come out, dealers will be doing the same thing that happened when the first gen cars came out. What that "cost" will be , who knows.
 
I still don't understand how anyone could possibly accept 6 cylinders in a car that is north of $100,000... They need at least a v-8 version or this car will be a waste of many people's money.
 
I still don't understand how anyone could possibly accept 6 cylinders in a car that is north of $100,000... They need at least a v-8 version or this car will be a waste of many people's money.

I guess you've never heard of this little car company called "PORSCHE". The last time I checked, the 911 was still a "6" cylinder and the base price is north of $75k.
 
I still don't understand how anyone could possibly accept 6 cylinders in a car that is north of $100,000... They need at least a v-8 version or this car will be a waste of many people's money.
by 2025 8 cylinder engines will be almost extinct.
which may be a good reason to buy something now - i would think they will become valuable.
 
I'd take the NSX still simply because the R8 can be argued as a kit car. The chassis is associated with the Gallardo/Huracan and so is the V10 engine. Generally though, the R8 weighs more. Also the V8 is sourced from a Saloon from Audi. So there is very little unique/special that can be argued about the R8.
 
Honda did in fact build a V8 and it was a piece of engineering excellence. They powered the Indy Racing cars from 2003 to 2011. Since the new engine layout for the NSX will be longitudinal, its not unreasonable to assume that a future model of the NSX will be upgraded to at least the V8.

DocL: while its true Prosche 911's (& Boxter) have 6cylinders (many of which are bi-turbocharged to keep up), there are examples of Porsches with V8 and v10 engines (Carrera GT).

N Spec: good point about the "kit" car concept for the R8, I didn't know all those parts were sourced from others. They assimilate like the Borg.
 
Since I own both examples I will chime in and say that if the NSX and the R8 are the same price, I would pick the R8 every day of the week.
 
I'd take the NSX still simply because the R8 can be argued as a kit car. The chassis is associated with the Gallardo/Huracan and so is the V10 engine. Generally though, the R8 weighs more. Also the V8 is sourced from a Saloon from Audi. So there is very little unique/special that can be argued about the R8.

I've never heard anyone argue the R8 as a kit car, that's actually quite amusing.

Since I own both examples I will chime in and say that if the NSX and the R8 are the same price, I would pick the R8 every day of the week.

NA1MT, I think a lot of the people who like to bag on the R8 have never driven one. N Spec especially will bag on any and everything that is not a Honda. I've put a lot of street and track miles on the R8 and it is a magnificent car, and has been chosen as the best handling car in years past by several automotive magazines. I also agree that the current R8 is heaps better than the last model year NSX, even the V8 edition is light years ahead. not only in performance, but in terms of ease of everyday use, drivability, comfort, etc. (that's for you N Spec). which really is to be expected. however the new NSX will certainly be a much better car in every way than the last model NSX. and on the other side of the equation, the new R8 will also be a significantly better car than the outgoing R8. Honda had better have engineered this car well in the future if it is to have a hope of competing...
 
I've never heard anyone argue the R8 as a kit car, that's actually quite amusing.

Agreed, the R8 is definitely no kit car. However the real problem with the R8 is that it's an Audi, one of the least reliable brands on the market. For instance consider this engine failure survey that rates Honda as number one and Audi as second to last place.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9815860/German-cars-lose-out-in-reliability-survey.html

Honda (failure rate: 1 in 344)
Audi (failure rate: 1 in 27)

From reading r8talk.com I found more than one story about an R8 owner having their entire engine replaced under warranty. I don't recall reading any reports of this in the early years of NSX production. I suspect the R8 will be a very costly car to maintain as a daily driver as it ages, especially the V10 version. This is what keeps me from seriously considering the R8.
 
While I haven't owned the R8 long enough to rate its reliability, I presently own an RS6 and have had it for five years and must say it's been very reliable. When issues come up it is on the pricey side to fix.......but pay to play, right. And it's a 2003 and the electronics in it are way ahead of the 2005 NSX. I am in no way hating on the NSX, old or new that isn't here yet, but in terms of build quality I wouldn't expect it to be on par with the new R8.


To even suggest that the R8 is a kit car is really a ridiculous statement.....lmao.
 
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NA1MT has more ability to speak on the subject than anyone, as he actually owns both cars.

Audi may be a more unreliable brand than Honda, as a brand, but that doesn't mean the R8 is an unreliable car. as their flagship, much like the NSX was, it is likely engineered to a higher standard than say, the SUV or base model A3. the NSX was built in this same way but still had a good amount of documented problems in the early years including a grenading transmission. with the experience I've had with R8's on road and track, and knowing a few owners personally, they seem to be very reliable cars.

Honda is aiming squarely at the R8, so I imagine this will be a very common discussion...
 
While I haven't owned the R8 long enough to rate its reliability, I presently own an RS6 and have had it for five years and must say it's been very reliable. When issues come up it is on the pricey side to fix.......but pay to play, right. And it's a 2003 and the electronics in it are way ahead of the 2005 NSX. I am in no way hating on the NSX, old or new that isn't here yet, but in terms of build quality I wouldn't expect it to be on par with the new R8.

That's crazy to compare the electronics in a 2005 NSX to relatively recent cars. We all know that a 2005 NSX is essentially the same car with the same electronics as a 1991 NSX. That Honda choose to keep the original NSX on life support for so long in no way demonstrates that Audi is ahead in electronics and/or possess superior design prowess. The only meaningful comparisons involving the NSX would be to compare a 91 NSX to a 91 Audi, or to wait and compare the 2nd gen NSX to the R8.

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Audi may be a more unreliable brand than Honda, as a brand, but that doesn't mean the R8 is an unreliable car. as their flagship, much like the NSX was, it is likely engineered to a higher standard than say, the SUV or base model A3. the NSX was built in this same way but still had a good amount of documented problems in the early years including a grenading transmission. with the experience I've had with R8's on road and track, and knowing a few owners personally, they seem to be very reliable cars.

Often a manufacturer's lower volume models tend to be less reliable than their higher volume models. Imagine if you sold 200,000 Accords with a serious flaw that required the engines to be replaced under warranty in majority of those cars. Now imagine the same problem occurring in the NSX with sales volume of only 500. There's far less financial and reputation risk associated with failure of the low volume vehicle.

My experience with the NSX is while it appears to have been built to a higher standard than other Hondas, the car is not any more reliable than other Hondas. I would expect the R8 to be similar-- i.e. higher build quality than other Audi vehicles but similar reliability. Subjective build quality is not the same as reliability.

When was the last time you saw a 91 Audi on the road? Something like an Audi 5000 or Audi 100 perhaps. I thought so.
 
When was the last time you saw a 91 Audi on the road? Something like an Audi 5000 or Audi 100 perhaps. I thought so.

you thought what, that I look for '91 Audi's on the road? I don't actually.

but if you're gonna compare a '91 NSX to a '91 Audi anything, you'd have to compare a very nice, well cared-for example with normal NSX miles. I'm guessing the average NSX probably has well under 100k on the clock. also that it lives in a garage and is maintained fairly religiously. then you could accurately compare the two 1991 cars.

also keep in mind that the NSX is a far more reliable car than any Civic, Accord or other model made by Honda. and again, driven less and cared for in a different manner. I wouldn't really imagine Honda to be heaps more reliable than they were 25 years ago as they were already well at the top of their game. all of the other manufacturers have since caught up tremendously.

the question really is, since Honda is aiming the new NSX squarely at the R8, how will it stack up against the new model when it comes out shortly thereafter?
 
Why should the comparison of the electronics of a 2005 NSX to a 2003 RS6 be "crazy"? The only thing that's crazy about the comparison is that the NSX electronics suck compared to the two year older Audi.....lol. My 2003 RS6 sedan that weighs at least 1000lbs more than the NSX will embarrass it in every performance comparison except for cornering.

The NSX was an awesome platform in its day. I'll always have mine and I truly enjoy every minute I'm driving it or even just looking at it in the garage. But c'mon, be realistic when comparing it to other cars. Audi is probably putting out the best cars in the world right now. Honda/Acura has some pretty big shoes to fill with the new NSX that they have been releasing for how many years now? From V8 to V10 and now back to a V6 they have flip flopped on this new car and in my opinion embarrassed themselves in the process. They really better bring their A Game since the next gen R8 is possibly going to have the twin turbo RS7 motor which is running 10 sec 1/4 mile times in an almost 4000lb car.

I just recently sold my Cayenne S and picked up an MDX.....which one of those do you think is a more solid car?
 
but if you're gonna compare a '91 NSX to a '91 Audi anything, you'd have to compare a very nice, well cared-for example with normal NSX miles. I'm guessing the average NSX probably has well under 100k on the clock. also that it lives in a garage and is maintained fairly religiously. then you could accurately compare the two 1991 cars.

also keep in mind that the NSX is a far more reliable car than any Civic, Accord or other model made by Honda. and again, driven less and cared for in a different manner. I wouldn't really imagine Honda to be heaps more reliable than they were 25 years ago as they were already well at the top of their game.

I don't agree that the NSX is noticeably more reliable than the Civic and Accord from the same era. Any difference you may have heard about and/or noticed is likely due to the fact that most NSX's have far fewer miles on them, just like you noted above. I am familiar with the repair history of about 8 different early 90's Hondas that friends and family still own today. With respect to solely reliability, all these cars regardless of model have aged similarly. For instance a 1990 Accord had more problems than my NSX, but it had over 350,000 miles on it and spent its entire life outside. But a garage kept 1990 Civic that has only 100,000 miles on it has actually had fewer problems than my NSX.

If you look closely at these cars they're all surprisingly similar. Nearly every one of these 20+ year old Hondas has had the main relay fail, including the NSX. If you take the relay module apart you'll see the NSX version is no better than the Civic version. Same goes for the ignition switches that have failed. And the brake master cylinder failed on the both the 1990 Civic and 1991 NSX within a year and 10,000 miles of each other. Both use a similar quality Nissin part.

However the NSX clearly has better body hardware and construction quality than the cheaper Hondas. But that doesn't really tell you much about its long term mechanical and electrical reliability.

all of the other manufacturers have since caught up tremendously.

So if this is indeed the case, then how do you explain that survey I previously posted showing an Audi is over 10 times more likely to experience an engine failure than a Honda? That is a huge difference! Also note the large disparity between all the brands. This is from a company that sells warranties to extend the original manufacturer's warranty, thus most of the cars in the survey are likely less than 8 years old.

I realize that groups like Consumer Reports and JD Power continue to tell us that brands like Audi have improved tremendously. And the short term data mostly shows this to be true. But all long term reports I can find (which are rarely publicized) continue to show big differences amongst brands. If you read r8talk.com you can see many owners are afraid to own their R8 without warranty. There are frequent threads discussing extended warranty costs. I don't recall that ever being a hot topic here on nsxprime.com

the question really is, since Honda is aiming the new NSX squarely at the R8, how will it stack up against the new model when it comes out shortly thereafter?

My guess is that the new NSX will offer performance that's similar to the V10 R8, but at the price level of the V8 R8. Honda's value proposition will be to offer a level of technology that's previously only been available in sports car costing far more. Many competing brands only offer hybrid sports cars as their top of the line models-- e.g. La Ferrari, McLaren P1, Porsche 918. The new NSX will claim to offer similar technology, but at the price level of a less technologically advanced 911 or R8.
 
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I've never heard anyone argue the R8 as a kit car, that's actually quite amusing.



NA1MT, I think a lot of the people who like to bag on the R8 have never driven one. N Spec especially will bag on any and everything that is not a Honda. I've put a lot of street and track miles on the R8 and it is a magnificent car, and has been chosen as the best handling car in years past by several automotive magazines. I also agree that the current R8 is heaps better than the last model year NSX, even the V8 edition is light years ahead. not only in performance, but in terms of ease of everyday use, drivability, comfort, etc. (that's for you N Spec). which really is to be expected. however the new NSX will certainly be a much better car in every way than the last model NSX. and on the other side of the equation, the new R8 will also be a significantly better car than the outgoing R8. Honda had better have engineered this car well in the future if it is to have a hope of competing...

You don't know me well enough to believe that I am a Honda fan buddy.
 
While I haven't owned the R8 long enough to rate its reliability, I presently own an RS6 and have had it for five years and must say it's been very reliable. When issues come up it is on the pricey side to fix.......but pay to play, right. And it's a 2003 and the electronics in it are way ahead of the 2005 NSX. I am in no way hating on the NSX, old or new that isn't here yet, but in terms of build quality I wouldn't expect it to be on par with the new R8.


To even suggest that the R8 is a kit car is really a ridiculous statement.....lmao.

It can be argued by definition. Please tell what was originally designed for the R8 besides sheet metal/plastic that is fresh and new? The V10 is detuned version of the Lamborghini. The car has better details for the interior than the Lambo, but it also weighs more. The V8 engine is a high revved V8 from the RS4 sedan/saloon. If the NSX had a high revved engine from the Accord, how would people feel about that??? Even the body of the R8 is a steroided/muscled version of the TT based on aesthetics. I see nothing wrong with that as far as a family of design, but I'm just pointing it out.

So again, please tell how original or revolutionary a detuned Gallard/Huracan is.

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I think everyone knows that mate...

If you believe the R8 to be so great, then why didn't you buy an R8 instead of the late model NSX?

I don't like the looks of the R8 then and still don't like it now for the new one. I don't care if it drives faster or better than the 20+ year old NSX as you could put both cars next to each other and the NSX would make me more excited by virtue. I could care less if a group of peers have a hard-on for the Audi and said my NSX was a Ferrari knock-off. If the R8 is so much better, than why aren't you all buying a used one as their prices are not too far from the 2002+ NSX for a 08-09 R8 4.2?

If I don't like the emotion the car invokes for me, then it's not the exotic or sports car that I want as it's a almost purely emotional buy when you buy one. To me, the R8 is more along the lines of the aesthetics and size of a GTR. I would only choose the R8 over the GTR because I prefer the proportions of the R8 only a little bit better. That's not saying much when the choice is hard between a saloon and mid-engine coupe for me anyways. If Audi made something that stood and looked like a Carrera GT or Ford GT or NSX, then I would probably be all over it. Also, it helps if you develop a unique engine for the car too instead of sourcing it.
 
I don't agree that the NSX is noticeably more reliable than the Civic and Accord from the same era. However the NSX clearly has better body hardware and construction quality than the cheaper Hondas. But that doesn't really tell you much about its long term mechanical and electrical reliability.

the electrical contacts in the NSX are gold plated for reliability, I don't believe that's the case in any other Honda/Acura. just one example of the additional amount of concern given to the NSX specifically in that regard.

My guess is that the new NSX will offer performance that's similar to the V10 R8, but at the price level of the V8 R8. Honda's value proposition will be to offer a level of technology that's previously only been available in sports car costing far more. Many competing brands only offer hybrid sports cars as their top of the line models-- e.g. La Ferrari, McLaren P1, Porsche 918. The new NSX will claim to offer similar technology, but at the price level of a less technologically advanced 911 or R8.

Audi and Porsche are still moving cars like it's no one's business. I'm not too sure a lot of people are really into the whole Hybrid supercar just yet, even a lot of people on this site aren't. personally if I were shopping in that price range, I'd just buy the car I liked best. the hybrid technology doesn't mean anything to me. I'd probably have bought a Prius already if it did...
 
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