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2016 NSX to cost same as r8?


I believe just like anything else it's all about personal preference. If I had to choose between a 2005 nsx and a 2003 rs6, I would absolutely without a doubt in my mind pick the nsx for many reasons. Off the top of my head those reasons include: timeless design, rarity, reliability, driving experience, resale value, did I mention timeless design?
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It depends on your current life situation......totally different cars for different people. As far as rarity goes, the RS6 is MUCH rarer in the USA than the NSX. There were only ever around 1000 brought in. You might be a little surprised at the "driving experience" as well. I would have to argue that on a long track with sweeping turns the the RS6 would easily be faster around the track. I definitely can't argue the depreciation factor, as the original buy in of $88k to low to mid $20s now kinda sucks......but when I need a part I know I can go to the dealership and buy it......��.
 
But that's the whole point of the NSX hybrid-- to make a sports car that's ahead of the curve (NSX) as opposed to being a car of the moment (Audi). Things that are hugely popular are generally "of the moment" and not very forward looking. The same cannot be said of the R8.

it appears one of three variants of the new R8 will actually be a fully electric powerplant, so you may want to rethink that statement.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/r8-e-tron

Mercedes is also making a fully electric SLS AMG. so it looks like the Germans may be even more ahead of the curve than the current group of hybrid makers. seems fitting, as they did invent the automobile after all.

On the bike side, ever since BMW squeezed out 200+ hp from the 1 liter, the Japanese have already begun to respond. Yamaha is working on a 230 hp all motor 1 liter bike and Kawasaki has a supercharged 300 hp 1 liter bike coming soon. The sleeping dragon is getting stirred awake.

on the bike side of things, BMW and Ducati have been making that power (180 to 195 hp to the rear wheel) from the S1000RR and 1199 street bikes for a while. and as far as the new Kawasaki H1R goes, that's a closed course machine only. there won't be a road going version, at least not for a while and in that state of tune.

I'm very interested to see how Honda's powerplant, ahem...excuse me, power unit will go in Formula 1 next year. initial reports have it not performing very well, under par from even Renault at this time. I'd really love to see a McLaren Honda up the front end again, I'm sure everyone on this forum would understand the significance of that happening. I hope the Japanese still have it in them, I miss seeing that big "H" on the front of a Formula 1 machine...
 
R8 nicely fit into a niche` that the NSX-v2, namely HSC-concept, could've staked claim towards. A V8-powered R8 or an SL AMG? loaded M6? Continental GT? 911 C4S? Huge vacuum beneath the 458/12C/Gallardo segment...
 
The quote earlier about the R8 being a "kit car" may have been a bit harsh actually, for example the LaFerrari gets its 7 speed dual clutch transmission from a company called Getrag. Its definitely no kit car.
There is probably a lot of collaboration from other subspecialities into making supercars like this.
 
The quote earlier about the R8 being a "kit car" may have been a bit harsh actually, for example the LaFerrari gets its 7 speed dual clutch transmission from a company called Getrag. Its definitely no kit car.
There is probably a lot of collaboration from other subspecialities into making supercars like this.

Am glad you say that, kit car is a ridiculous description. Every car I know of is made from parts from hundreds of suppliers. I'd bet that no car on sale today is made entirely by the manufacturer.
 
"Harsh" is really not the right word.......I was leaning towards "moronic" personally. I can't express how upset I was to find out my R8 has a Cosworth motor and a Lamborghini six speed.....hahaha
 
<<Fully loaded this fancy Jetta costs $45,000. If Acura attempted to sell a Civic derived vehicle for $45,000 they'd be heavily criticized,


A fully loaded ILX is civic based and is $34/35k fully loaded no? Not $45k but i believe ample criticism has taken place.

Back to the earlier posts in this thread - are people going to buy the new NSX at its price point. We'll have to wait and see...

For the latter posts - i think we all know that modern cars are very reliable compared to days gone by. I think most car guys also know that Mercs, BMWs, and Audis start to cost a lot when things start to break after 5-6 years' worth of mileage.

A lot of the buyers are not driving the cars to 200k miles. Theyre returning the lease or trading up after several years. That is who the cars are made for. I mention this only to say that yes Honda is more reliable; but how much does that matter to the new buyer market? Its an expensive (good value yes but a fairly high priced) performance car from Honda.

Sales will tell who is cross shopping what and what they are choosing.
 
I didn't get excited about the new Nsx until recently. Excited to see what Honda brings to the table and if we know Honda it will be nothing short of spectacular. And you have guys on here wanting r8s based on price come on where is your loyalty buddy. Ten or 20 g is not enough to sway my decision. Not even close. I am thinking this car will once again put a big f u stamp on the exotic/performance market. The 2.0 will have it all. All wheel drive , boosted, hybrid, mid engine, and affordable (more than most). What's more exciting is the aftermarket potential to build a dominating beast. I assume it will be pretty easy and affordable to turn 450 hp into 600 on this car. Perhaps the delay in release is further tuning and perfecting a platform or drivetrain that will have to stand the test of time, like our current cars. The longer we have to wait the more spectacular it will be. Go Honda 👍
 
it appears one of three variants of the new R8 will actually be a fully electric powerplant, so you may want to rethink that statement.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/audi/r8-e-tron

Mercedes is also making a fully electric SLS AMG. so it looks like the Germans may be even more ahead of the curve than the current group of hybrid makers. seems fitting, as they did invent the automobile after all.

The R8 e-tron is a novelty. Nobody will want that thing as evidenced by how Audi says it will likely be "special order only". Same for a fully electric SLS AMG. By contrast I could actually see a future R8 hybrid being commercially successful. Regardless Audi is likely being forced to go the hybrid route due to continually creeping government efficiency standards, so I see this as less of a design choice and more one of necessity. In this sense Honda made the right choice by going with a hybrid for the next NSX as opposed to developing a V8 or V10 engine.

According to the news articles I've read an R8 hybrid will not arrive until the 2017 model year or later. Thus when it's released next year the 2016 NSX will be the first and only $100,000 to $200,000 range hybrid supercar. That will put Honda ahead of everyone else within this price segment (albeit temporarily), including all the German offerings.
 
Don't you think a bmw i8 is comparable?

Exotic looks, very high performance mid engine 4wd two seater. Why is it less supercar than the nsx?
 
No, it strikes me as more of an electric car like the Tesla than a supercar. I can not take a 357 hp car seriously when it costs 140k. Option it out and it will be a lot more. It is more of a technology show case and that you can geek out on than drawing out emotion like a supercar should.
 
Well without driving it first i dont think one can tell about "emotion". I know that BMW are quite able to produce exceptional drivers cars. I wouldnt dismiss it that easily. Also i am quite curious about their revival of the M1, even longer in the making than the NSX... saw a prototype at Geneva auto show last year, dont know if they are serious about it or not, but it looked really good.
 
BMW makes good cars but they are not a purchase based on emotion like an Italian supercar. BMW's of past were great for driving with a connected feeling but now they are lacking that driver feed back. Having a 6 series was a disappointment. Fast yes, but I felt like a well informed passenger which is rather boring. They engineered the fun out of it. The emotion of it should be one that is not based solely on driving or what it is on paper otherwise we would not own an NSX.
 
"Harsh" is really not the right word.......I was leaning towards "moronic" personally. I can't express how upset I was to find out my R8 has a Cosworth motor and a Lamborghini six speed.....hahaha

Am glad you say that, kit car is a ridiculous description. Every car I know of is made from parts from hundreds of suppliers. I'd bet that no car on sale today is made entirely by the manufacturer.

But please do tell me which part of the R8 besides the exterior pieces were originally designed specifically for the R8. I'm not talking about sourcing parts. I'm talking about originality and design with intent. Audi did not say we are going to make our own unique mid engine sports car. We are going to take the Gallardo to save money on R&D and share cost while we add our own flavor to it.

The 458's engine was made specifically for the 458. The 12C or 650S's engine is specifically made for that car. The NSX's engine was made specifically for that car. No other car uses it. Plenty of exclusive sports cars that have unique engines designed specifically for that car, not supped up versions that were pulled from a sedan or lesser model.

Even stuntman concurs it's a Gallardo re-bodied with a RS4 Engine which re-iterates what I said. Get your feelings hurt or call it harsh all you want, but the statement is true. It's funny how strong Audi's hold on society has one or two people getting mad at me for pointing out true details. If Honda made the NSX with a J engine, everyone would be criticizing that. The VR38 choice for the GTR was criticized by many RB enthusiast also, but atleast it is unique to the GTR and Nissan recognized this distinction.

The R8 has no true original/unique birthright. It's like a Frankenstein of cars. They took the sleek Gallardo/Huracan and made a fatter version of it. This may be my opinion mixed with actual facts, but I'm not alone in believing/thinking it. It doesn't mean I think the R8 is a shit car. I'm just telling you what it is to me/what I see.

- - - Updated - - -

on the bike side of things, BMW and Ducati have been making that power (180 to 195 hp to the rear wheel) from the S1000RR and 1199 street bikes for a while. and as far as the new Kawasaki H1R goes, that's a closed course machine only. there won't be a road going version, at least not for a while and in that state of tune.

I'm very interested to see how Honda's powerplant, ahem...excuse me, power unit will go in Formula 1 next year. initial reports have it not performing very well, under par from even Renault at this time. I'd really love to see a McLaren Honda up the front end again, I'm sure everyone on this forum would understand the significance of that happening. I hope the Japanese still have it in them, I miss seeing that big "H" on the front of a Formula 1 machine...

The Ducati has a 200cc edge which is huge for bikes so it cannot be a contender technically. BMW has only recently upped the hp expectation for the 1000cc bikes. Yamaha and Kawasaki are responding swiftly. Look for the other Japanese Bikes to do so soon as they generally have limited their bikes because of the usual gentlemen's agreement. The H2R will be supercharged in street trim also. It will be much more than 200+ hp still even if it's de-tuned from the race version. We shall see soon enough.

It is not so good news hearing about Honda's struggle with F1 recently. Perhaps all of the 80s/90s F1 engineers were usurped by other competitors when they withdrew from F1 :rolleyes: Or all of their best engineers are busy designing the new NSX's powerplant.
 
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So let me get this straight, any car that shares components with another is a Frankenstein kit car except for body parts?

And you think that means Audi has hoodwinked the planet? I can't believe anyone but those on your side of this argument actually care.


Fyi, the horrific r-tronic gearbox was unique to the r8. The open gait of the manual version too. The engine btw was unique to the r8 until the rs5 came along. It may appear to have come from the rs4 but if you know the details, it does not.


Remind not to buy any baby Ferrari ever, especially not the new 458m which shares its turbo charged engine and gearbox with the California t. So much money for a kit car.
 
So let me get this straight, any car that shares components with another is a Frankenstein kit car except for body parts?

Remind not to buy any baby Ferrari ever, especially not the new 458m which shares its turbo charged engine and gearbox with the California t. So much money for a kit car.

Again, answer the question of original design intent. So the purpose of the R8 is completely original and not a clone of the Gallardo in Audi flavor? You still misunderstand my analogy. Please tell me where the originality begins for the R8. I would still choose the Gallardo or Huracan over the R8 variants because of aesthetics and original nature.

Why did Audi not just build a uniquely specific engine for the R8 and actually use their own sports car platform considering the resources they have at their disposal??? Why cut corners even if the platform is already proven by Lambo? And please educate me on how different the RS4's engine is from the R8 if you know something more than this:

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/0704_audi_r8_rs4_dyno_test/

Even the dyno curves are almost identical.

There is only speculation that the 458 successor is using the same engine from the California T. Most of the entry level Ferraris have had their own unique V8 engine in the past and I don't believe Ferrari will break that tradition. I believe the only similarities they will share is that they are under 4 liters and twin turbo.
 
N Spec: you can call the R8s 4.2L V8 a reworked RS4 engine which is a reworked A6 engine the same way you can call the NSX's C30/32s reworked Legend motors.

The F430/California/458 all utilize the same F136 family of motors, and the 12C/650S/P1 also share a lot of components, especially the chassis. And the new 458 will most likely build off of what the TT California is currently using.

At the end of the day, it really does not matter.
 
I really don't get what the big deal is with the requirement to be an original design or concept. It wouldn't enter my mind when choosing a car.

Audi have vast resources because they own bugatti and Lamborghini, why the hell would you not try to share a platform if you already had a decent one available.
 
N Spec: you can call the R8s 4.2L V8 a reworked RS4 engine which is a reworked A6 engine the same way you can call the NSX's C30/32s reworked Legend motors.

The F430/California/458 all utilize the same F136 family of motors, and the 12C/650S/P1 also share a lot of components, especially the chassis. And the new 458 will most likely build off of what the TT California is currently using.

At the end of the day, it really does not matter.

You're right, at the end of the day, it's up to the consumer what they like. I made a comment with my own opinion mixed with facts. People got upset. Sorry, but that's how I feel. I already said, if you like the R8, you like it. I don't look down on anyone for liking it and I gave my positive thoughts about it. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. I just supported my statements. The original post made it seem like it's blasphemy for the NSX to be the same cost as a lower-priced/more accessible Gallardo/Huracan co-created by Audi. Which IMO, it is not, even though I think the first model will be priced aggressively to the market.

-The 650S is an evolution of the 12C. The P1 flagship has a different block and part number. Go to 2:00 minute mark of video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb8tGX-HPQE&t=2m3s

-The R8 is shown to be 2% different from the RS4. The difference is basically a stock NSX engine versus one with a very aggressive exhaust and different fuel mapping/timing ecu, aka BPU. O, and the nice dry sump oil pan and lighter flywheel.

-The similarities between the Legend and NSX engines are myth and very little shared parts between the two if even considering first ever technology used in the NSX versus the Legend. This has been discussed many times.

-Ferrari will most likely use a totally different engine because they want to keep the stroke short most-likely, but that may also limit displacement which would limit competitive power. They will also need larger turbos to exhibit higher revs characteristics while trying to maintain a louder NA-like screams for the 458 successor. I'm sure we shall see soon enough, but I am betting the engine will be over 75% different if not more, even with a different part number/block. Not 5%-15% different.

And Adamantium: They should make a completely unique/standalone car out of pride and exclusivity. The exclusive factor is huge in the exotic genre.
 
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The 12C and 650S share a TON of components:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMB4TS6sCYo

I've seen that video before but it's ignorant to assume that McLaren or Ferrari build most of their engine and chassis platforms from scratch and not share among other models. Like the 12C and 650S' engine differences, I'd be surprised if the 458's new engine is 75% different from the california. It does not make business sense.

But this is all bench racing so who cares.
 
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