Looks like I toasted a ringland today.

Ravalous · 29 August 2015

Upon idle, I've been noticing a lot of vapours coming through my oil catch can. I removed the Pcv from the valve cover with the car idling and noticed oil vapours blowing through.

. . Looks like bad news. The car drives fine, no misfires or anything. Will do a leak down test to confirm for sure. Does anyone in here ever experienced this issue with their FI Nsx? Engine build time I guess!!

Valhalla · 30 August 2015

From what I understand, if boosted beyond what the engine can handle (around 400 rwhp) the weak link in the motor is the ringlands. What was your motor putting out and what engine management were you running?

Ravalous · 31 August 2015

Valhalla said:
From what I understand, if boosted beyond what the engine can handle (around 400 rwhp) the weak link in the motor is the ringlands. What was your motor putting out and what engine management were you running?

The car is making 410whp @7.8ps. The fuel management is Aem Fic with 50/50 meth. My tune is for meth. I hardly drove the car this summer. Maybe 3 times this year. The car is still running strong, but blow by vapour exiting the rear valve cover and oil catch can.

jwmelvin · 31 August 2015

That seems like a reasonable setup. Of course, if the meth for some reason didn't spray, then it would all go sour. Do you have data logs or an AFR gauge? Sorry to hear about this. When my engine pulled the head bolts out of the block, the ring lands were still okay; unknown cause.

Ravalous · 31 August 2015

jwmelvin said:
That seems like a reasonable setup. Of course, if the meth for some reason didn't spray, then it would all go sour. Do you have data logs or an AFR gauge? Sorry to hear about this. When my engine pulled the head bolts out of the block, the ring lands were still okay; unknown cause.

Yes very reasonable setup. It was my fault, last year I didn't install the meth when I did the BASCH install. I ran the car like that for the summer (2014) without it. However, I recently installed the meth kit and I must say it's my fault for this mishaps not the tune. I'm just going to run some forged pistons and call it a day. The car still start and run smoothed though.. Thanks

E-Nough Logic · 31 August 2015

Do you have an intercooler?

jwmelvin · 1 September 2015

Is the theory that the problem came from not running meth soon enough, or something related to running meth? I assume the car was retuned for meth when that system was added?

Ravalous · 1 September 2015

jwmelvin said:
Is the theory that the problem came from not running meth soon enough, or something related to running meth? I assume the car was retuned for meth when that system was added?

I bought the kit used with the meth tune file and all. I just never had a meth kit to go with it until recently.

Ravalous · 1 September 2015

Looks like I may get a 1994 engine with 41,000km's to buy for a really good price. Might just used that and call it a day.

cuda6pak · 1 September 2015

I would think with a meth tune and no meth that it would be pulling fuel in anticipation for the added meth, thus running leaner than you should have been.

jwmelvin · 1 September 2015

Yes running a meth tune but not spraying meth would be bad.

Ravalous · 1 September 2015

jwmelvin said:
Yes running a meth tune but not spraying meth would be bad.

Very true. I thought because I wasn't driving the car everyday would have been ok. But I was wrong after my drive from winter mode. Do you think I should do a rebuild with forged pistons, or just buy the engine I'm getting for a really good price with 41,000km's on it? Thanks for you help brother.

Ravi

jwmelvin · 1 September 2015

That power level is about where I am with a stock bottom end (399 whp). It is reported to be okay. I wanted to use forged pistons in my rebuild but the added expense including sleeving my cylinders (C32B engine) was too much. I guess it depends on your goals and finances. Surprise.

It sounds like you don't have an AFR gauge? I would change that.

Ravalous · 2 September 2015

jwmelvin said:
That power level is about where I am with a stock bottom end (399 whp). It is reported to be okay. I wanted to use forged pistons in my rebuild but the added expense including sleeving my cylinders (C32B engine) was too much. I guess it depends on your goals and finances. Surprise.

It sounds like you don't have an AFR gauge? I would change that.

I'm thinking the same thing about going oversized forged Pistons so that way I don't have to re-sleeve my motor. I have a Aem Uego, but it's not fully wired since I didn't drive the car at all this year. It will be fully wired up though. Thanks

E-Nough Logic · 2 September 2015

I would get a complete engine management system as well as a proper intercooler if you don't have one already. An older plug and play AEM box is going for less than an FIC with harness. A proper EMS can save your motor. Hard to blame the lack of meth without any knowledge of the condition of the tune.

RYU · 2 September 2015

E-Nough Logic said:
I would get a complete engine management system as well as a proper intercooler if you don't have one already. An older plug and play AEM box is going for less than an FIC with harness. A proper EMS can save your motor. Hard to blame the lack of meth without any knowledge of the condition of the tune.

I would agree with this gentleman. ^^^
[MENTION=23567]Ravalous[/MENTION] From the looks of things, this was a budget build (I don't blame you) but it also increases your risk factor of Kaboom greatly.

Lots of other things we can suggest but it's probably things you've already heard before. Please ask if you'd like us to chime in.

jwmelvin · 2 September 2015

E-Nough Logic said:
Hard to blame the lack of meth without any knowledge of the condition of the tune.

If the tune was for 50% meth and he wasn't spraying meth (both of which he said), it seems like the most straightforward conclusion. There could of course be other problems but a standalone EMS would not have fixed a bad tune. A tune designed for 50% meth, when used with no spray, is a bad tune.

E-Nough Logic · 2 September 2015

Maybe the tune was originally safe without the meth and the meth was just an added safeguard. We don't know because there is no data about intake air temps, AFR's, ignition timing etc. I'm just recommending going forward to eliminate all of the high-risk possible causes of future failure. I'm not saying a standalone would fix a bad tune, but any tune on a piggyback is a bad tune IMO. Meth would affect AFR's, a good ECU could compensate fuel or at least cut ignition to prevent damage.

jwmelvin · 2 September 2015

All good points. I don't disagree really but he did say the tune was designed for meth. I wish I could use a standalone but need OBD2 compliance. I guess I could do the swap over every couple years. Maybe not so bad for the ECU, but would include MAP sensor too (at least).

Ravalous · 4 September 2015

The tune was safe for daily driving 50/50 meth. However, the car passed an Etest this summer without cats, with flying colours. Never had any blow by. I ran my buddy's stage 3 B5 Twin Turbo Audi S4 420whp. I had him both times from a dead stop, I walked him off the line. This was end of summer last year, the weather was cool. This year I didn't really drive the car at all. The Begining of spring was the first time I noticed some oil spitting out from the rear valve cover under boost. My catch can barely have any oil in. Oil vapours are more visible upon start up and cruising. I spoke to Rob about building my engine for longevity and added hp.

kookoo4nsx · 4 September 2015

The first mistake was not having an afr guage. Mine saved me because I noticed my WOT afr creeped up from a reasonable 11.5 to 12.1 at max boost.
I was told the likely culprit was a weak fuel pump. New pump fixed the issue before it became an issue.

I would also never buy a setup with a "tune". A few hundred bucks and couple hours on a dyno with a well respected shop most likely would have saved this motor.
Lesson learned. If you go rebuild you will spend considerably more. The donor motor is all you need if you plan to keep it at 400 rwhp. Then get a proper tune on
your FIC and it will last a good long time. Oh and I'd never pass up on a good donor motor at the right price.

Ravalous · 4 September 2015

kookoo4nsx said:
The first mistake was not having an afr guage. Mine saved me because I noticed my WOT afr creeped up from a reasonable 11.5 to 12.1 at max boost.
I was told the likely culprit was a weak fuel pump. New pump fixed the issue before it became an issue.

I would also never buy a setup with a "tune". A few hundred bucks and couple hours on a dyno with a well respected shop most likely would have saved this motor.
Lesson learned. If you go rebuild you will spend considerably more. The donor motor is all you need if you plan to keep it at 400 rwhp. Then get a proper tune on
your FIC and it will last a good long time. Oh and I'd never pass up on a good donor motor at the right price.

I understand what you mean brother. I just got back from taking the car for a quick spin around the block. The fumes from the blow by has made it into the car now. It's unbearable to sit in the car for more than a few minutes. This means I'll do a full engine build.

RYU · 4 September 2015

Sorry you have to go thru a new engine build. I can't help but think you wouldn't have needed it with a more granular tune. Maybe this is a good excuse to add more HP to your build

Keep in mind, engines build the most power the closer your tune is to stoic. I always run my cars a tad rich for safety. At full boost I like 11.5 in the early RPMs but once in the 6k-redline I like it rich at around 10.9-11.0 AFR. I also like to keep the timing advance a little conservative in the higher RPMs. This conservative AFR and timing costs me about 20-30wHP but my motor hasn't gone kaboom yet on pump gas and water injection with lots of track days. Hope I never have to rebuild this motor.

Ravalous · 6 September 2015

RYU said:
Sorry you have to go thru a new engine build. I can't help but think you wouldn't have needed it with a more granular tune. Maybe this is a good excuse to add more HP to your build Keep in mind, engines build the most power the closer your tune is to stoic. I always run my cars a tad rich for safety. At full boost I like 11.5 in the early RPMs but once in the 6k-redline I like it rich at around 10.9-11.0 AFR. I also like to keep the timing advance a little conservative in the higher RPMs. This conservative AFR and timing costs me about 20-30wHP but my motor hasn't gone kaboom yet on pump gas and water injection with lots of track days. Hope I never have to rebuild this motor.

Thanks for info. I'll just make sure the meth is hooked up this time. lol. It was my fault for all of this the car ran really well, considering I didn't ran without a meth kit on with a meth tune that made 410whp. Building my engine this fall.. Stay tune fellas.

peiserg · 6 September 2015

Ravalous said:
Thanks for info. I'll just make sure the meth is hooked up this time. lol. It was my fault for all of this the car ran really well, considering I didn't ran without a meth kit on with a meth tune that made 410whp. Building my engine this fall.. Stay tune fellas.

I'd have a qualified shop evaluate before you start budgeting money.

I used to have a meth injected BBSC. Ran great. I think i had 60000 miles on the system before my ringland went at 10 psi. I rebuilt using forged pistons at a lower compression ratio. My plan was to run 15 psi on the bbsc, which should have gotten me in the 500rwhp range, but it was noted my crank was scored due to the tension of the BBSC drive belt. I think it was over tightened by my tuner.

Whats the story on your C5RS6? I've got one of those with millteks, water injection, OCT tune.

Looks like I toasted a ringland today.

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