• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Turbo kits for dummies

Eat a sinkers and low blood sugar? maybe you were offended by my statements to make more people aware the CTSC is not what its all cracked up to be? If your OK with mediocre performance and big optimistic dyno numbers and think 270 degree intake temperatures are a good thing than more power to you. the rest should be better informed. The OP is new, and thus although you state the subject is hammered to death, the OP was likely not aware.

I have no clue why resale is even part of the subject.... Especially since I have received allot of offers to buy my NSX in its current state, for allot more than I've ever seen an NA1 CTSC car sell for.. And track rat?.... Sorry my car still looks like a showcar from all angles inside and out and far from a stripped / abused track rat. http://s172.photobucket.com/user/tiago3/media/20151216_131325.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6 not to mention its only seen a handfull of track days in 10 years.
So I don't know even know what your talking about. No rough idle here, since I'm still on OEM engine internals, and it looks like a relatively stock car. especially compared to other modified cars.
You are making many assumptions. and even built engines don't automatically have rough idles.
All I did was make sure the OP and body else out there is fully aware a CTSC is not anywhere near comparable to a turbo. nor the N/A options.

yes you have pointed out the CTSC is a plug and play install with absolutely zero tinkering which is I also mentioned.... Well that pretty much takes all the fun out of it for many people that enjoy tinkering inclding me... I enjoy the dyno, I enjoy taking things apart.. so to each his own.

im not sure if your $11,000 comment was to sound like its allot of money... I spent over $10k losing the most recent 150lbs. and it was allot of fun. :) worth every penny... if i get $0 back it was still a damn great time. Considering I have car that competes with $100k+ cars its still relatively cheap fun.

Rock on with your high resale car goals to make the next owner happy, and I will continue with my goals of maximum enjoyment during my ownership. we both end up happy.

$11K buys a 3.5L stroker bottom end build fully installed with labor (without headwork) will make a solid 350whp all day. and can be run on a tuned OEM ecu... that's worth more fun than a CTSC. People just need to be aware there are other options.
I think you should really calm down. This is a car forum. We use it to discuss things. Not completely debunk ct engineering. Like I said before, I am quite happy with my ctsc kit. I do not frequent Ferrari shops, ride with Billy Johnson, or build make shift Nsx parts in my condominium. You really brought this out of me so here it is.... I do not trust anything you say. I trust ct engineering and the fellows at ct engineering. Nate, Kip, Shad, etc. These are the men I trust and I do not track my car. I trust them a whole lot further no matter what you say. So, being that this is a car forum, you rant then I rant. This is not a one sided fist fight.

- - - Updated - - -

I wish I had a snickers bar right now after a horrible over hyped dinner I came back from.
Lol, where did you eat?
 
I think you should really calm down. This is a car forum. We use it to discuss things. Not completely debunk ct engineering. Like I said before, I am quite happy with my ctsc kit. I do not frequent Ferrari shops, ride with Billy Johnson, or build make shift Nsx parts in my condominium. You really brought this out of me so here it is.... I do not trust anything you say. I trust ct engineering and the fellows at ct engineering. Nate, Kip, Shad, etc. These are the men I trust and I do not track my car. I trust them a whole lot further no matter what you say. So, being that this is a car forum, you rant then I rant. This is not a one sided fist fight.

I need to calm down? I'm not even remotely agitated, wheres the fist-fight? :confused:

For some unknown reason you continue to take personal offense, and now try to offend me "making makeshift parts in my condominium" in the same sentence pulling events from other threads clearly making this personal... as Ferrari shops, and Billy Johnson... I'm confused... and you have the courage to offend my having taken the time to use my Ferrari contacts to even bother to invent the first dyno proven intake manifold to add 20whp in 25 years on a NSX. that quite few people have seen and have dyno files already... not sure i ever requested your trust. nor what would i need it for.

Clearly you are a member of the anti-progress movement on NSX prime that already repelled many that could have continued to improve upon the existing platform.

I'm out.
 
Last edited:
I need to calm down? I'm not even remotely agitated, wheres the fist-fight? :confused:

For some unknown reason you continue to take personal offense, and now try to offend me "making makeshift parts in my condominium" in the same sentence as Ferrari shops, and Billy Johnson... I'm confused... and you have the courage to offend my having taken the time to use my Ferrari contacts to even bother to invent the first dyno proven intake manifold to add 20whp in 25 years on a NSX. that quite few people have seen and have dyno files already... not sure i ever requested your trust? what would i need it for?

Please contribute something new to this forum someday.
I'm out.
I am contributing to this forum. I prefer to speak on this matter privately but that is out now. Your young, you have the whole world ahead of you. I admire that. All I am saying is, your previous post slams on ct engineering on how inferior their bolt on kit is. I am here to tell you that you are wrong. It is not inferior. It holds up quite well. I read your posts. I admire your ambition. But for me personally as well as many others here, I do not have the time, ambition, man hours to persue your quest for Nsx immortality. That is why I am asking you to realize that not everyone has those ambitions.
Please do not take offense to my posts. Like I did yours. Like I said, it is not a one way street. Anyways, wow I am sure my fellow op member from nor cal has his head spinning right now. Patricio, I love reading your posts, I love your insight, all I ask is respect to elders in the community as for ct engineering and the great people there who benchmarked innovations for the Nsx probably while you were in middle school. Just show a lil respect brotha. Do not worry, I still will read your posts and cheer you on.
 
Jinks I'd rather not say. But let's just leave it at there's ancient places that never change and marvel in the glory of the olden days before people could actually taste food. A staple of the city I live in now basking in the past and honestly undeveloped since its stardomyears ago.

- - - Updated - - -

I am contributing to this forum. I prefer to speak on this matter privately but that is out now. Your young, you have the whole world ahead of you. I admire that. All I am saying is, your previous post slams on ct engineering on how inferior their bolt on kit is. I am here to tell you that you are wrong. It is not inferior. It holds up quite well. I read your posts. I admire your ambition. But for me personally as well as many others here, I do not have the time, ambition, man hours to persue your quest for Nsx immortality. That is why I am asking you to realize that not everyone has those ambitions.
Please do not take offense to my posts. Like I did yours. Like I said, it is not a one way street. Anyways, wow I am sure my fellow op member from nor cal has his head spinning right now. Patricio, I love reading your posts, I love your insight, all I ask is respect to elders in the community as for ct engineering and the great people there who benchmarked innovations for the Nsx probably while you were in middle school. Just show a lil respect brotha. Do not worry, I still will read your posts and cheer you on.

He's actually an old fart at heart!
 
Jinks I'd rather not say. But let's just leave it at there's ancient places that never change and marvel in the glory of the olden days before people could actually taste food. A staple of the city I live in now basking in the past and honestly undeveloped since its stardomyears ago.
Sounds like you ate at ct engineering? I know Patricio is smiling now.:smile:
 
Na man. If it was ct engineering they wouldn't have foie gras on the menu, and they would have a garden filled with micro greens and solar panels on the roof for sustainable living for you Cali folks! In all seriousness though I'm just jaded...
I just farted dandelion dust after my ct engineering dinner. At least I can breathe clean air though.:biggrin:

- - - Updated - - -

Good stuff Sduff. We really need comedy here. Everything is so serious on these forums and balls to the wall.
 
Stephen, I was not aware in addition to your cooking and a carbon fiber grand mastery your also a linguist. :)



jinks, I call a truce and I agree the CTSC has put many smiles on owners faces over the years. you and many others got thier $10k's worth and are happy with it and that's great. We see things through different prospective... I see a underlying market injustice that was unintentionally created by CT, they set the bar of HP per $ with a misunderstood product that has added difficulty for other fabricators overcome CT's jaded gains with new products for the past 20 years..

Therefore I prefer to support the companies that are currently re-inventing NSX parts like turbo kits, itb's & stroker kits, that make substantially better real whp than the CTSC. I hope other owners start giving way for new opportunities for development by comparing real NET power numbers
 
Last edited:
Stephen, I was not aware in addition to your cooking and a carbon fiber grand mastery your also a linguist. :)



jinks, I call a truce and I agree the CTSC has put many smiles on owners faces over the years. you and many others got thier $10k's worth and are happy with it and that's great. We see things through different prospective... I see a underlying market injustice that was unintentionally created by CT, they set the bar of HP per $ with a misunderstood product that has added difficulty for other fabricators overcome CT's jaded gains with new products for the past 20 years..

Therefore I prefer to support the companies that are currently re-inventing NSX parts like turbo kits, itb's & stroker kits, that make substantially better real whp than the CTSC. I hope other owners start giving way for new opportunities for development by comparing real NET power numbers
Truce agreed. I guess we both had a rough day.
 
OP,

Now that all is well in the world, the answer to your question is relatively complicated due to the setups that are available. There are distinct advantages and disadvantages with each FI method and personal opinions that come with each recommendation you receive. I've read all of the great advice you received and do not believe that I can really add anymore than what has been discussed.

One thing I can comment on is overall price. Power is a drug and once you have it, very few are satisfied with it long-term. I have researched this extensively when I started my build and believe I covered all my bases while doing so. I spent many hours on the phone with Nate @CT Engineering, Chris @SOS, Ken Sampson, and Gil discussing the pros and cons of both. Either way you go, you are going to spend money, regardless. Let's face it, the number of people who have the means to seek a 600 to 1k hp NSX are far and few in between. The term "safe" that has been used in this discussion are relative. Vendors realize what their customer base is, therefore, are going to provide the most dummy-proof kits available. There is no such thing as "safe" when it comes to forced induction. Tuning makes things more reliable, but there is nothing "safe."

As other have stated, turbo offers a more modular design allowing you to make changes to your setup with costs that are substantially less than that of a supercharger. One of the biggest drawbacks of turbo is the initial cost. Turbo will require some kind of engine management, associated tuning, fuel system modifications, exhaust, and should be monitored (i.e. gauges (same holds true with supercharging)). As other have said, a lot of R&D has been put into these kits and lag is going to be minimal. IMHO, turbo offers the overall lowest cost when factoring future upgrades into the equation. Should you be completely satisfied with lower horsepower goals, supercharging may be the cheaper alternative, but not by much at all.

What people are telling you about supercharging being limited is bs. You are only limited by your wallet. People who tell you this tend to not realize what can be done outside of readily made kits. CT Engineering offers their standard 1.7L blower kit (CARB Legal for you) as well as a 2.3L kit (it is not advertised, you have to call to obtain it and is NOT CARB Legal). This is NOT the limit to what you can do, in fact, this is only the beginning. As Dave Dozier explained, your biggest problem with be with your IATs. There are ways to overcome this, but it will cost you. Heat exchangers are key to reducing these temps such as the one sold by SoS. Secondary heat exchangers can be added by building your own intake manifold and adapters made to accommodate the wide range of blowers out there (i.e. Kenne Bell 3.6L). There are a huge range of thermal fluids that can be adapted for automotive use from the Oil and Gas Industry to aid as well. So no, you are not limited to any horsepower range with a blower as stated in this thread.

You do not have to build the engine unless you wish to run higher levels of boost. You do not need to build your transmission to handle the increased power unless you plan on running higher boost levels. Engine Management Systems (EMS) allow you to change boost levels by gear, create high and low boost settings, and a plethora of many other things. One problem you may encounter with EMS is emissions inspections. Va. has it's own version of "smog" checks. I will have to deal with that problem when I get my car back, but tuning will allow me to change the parameters enough to pass on the dyne (hopefully).

You really should monitor your engine regardless what direction you go. NSX's have their own quirks with broken oil pump gears under hard driving, false oil pressure readings, etc. Having these in front of you makes things a little less risky in the scheme of things.

Hope this helps...
 
Last edited:
.......not for dummies..................stupid................
 
Yes this is true... you can fix the CTSC by adding a plethora of coolers for an additional $5k+ that a few companies have discontinued due to questionable effectiveness. Some heatsoak along with the CTSC (the coolers that do work are already included in turbo kits)

So $10k ctsc +75lbs
$3k Headers & exhaust (comes with a turbo kit)
After coolers and misc 5k +50lbs (with fluids)
That's $18k for parts (no labor) and your still limited to the 350whp safely without to the going standalone ecu and thus losing the smog advantages you wanted to begin with...

The second you go standalone and want to hit 400whp you lose smog need to add injectors and fuel pump $1000 (includied in turbo kits) and ems (FIC included with some turbo kits) aem/haltec $2500 recommended with any FI and then you should have just went turbo to begin with and have spent 21k on a CTSC system without labor and will no longer pass smog

And consider the added 125lbs to the car takes an extra 18hp just to haul itself around. (At 7pw ratio) so you really are back to only have NET relative 330whp not the 350whp.

Considering people spend thousands to take 30lbs weight off the back of the car to reduce pendelum effect for noticably improved handeling... you just stuck a dead body in the trunk...

I'm not anti-CT and turbo kits have their issues too.
Just comparing apples:apples.. if your just putting around and not out for max performace nor occasional HPDE and don't mind being passed by new $30k cars.. the CTSC does a fine job.
 
Last edited:
Jinks I have driven plenty of stock CT equipped students cars at nsxpo hpde's and I can honestly say the car feels strong leaving the pits...but after lap 3 It doesn't feel much different than my NA 3.2 with bolt ons.that is I think why Patricio is so enthusiastic about his quest for the nsx track gobstopper if you catch my drift....and I love the CT guys.. the supercharger they retrofitted was primarily done to make the average street driver smile,and it delivers.So your difference in opinions is based on perspective.....
 
Last edited:
Yes this is true... you can fix the CTSC by adding a plethora of coolers for an additional $5k+ that a few companies have discontinued due to questionable effectiveness. Some heatsoak along with the CTSC (the coolers that do work are already included in turbo kits)

So $10k ctsc +75lbs
$3k Headers & exhaust (comes with a turbo kit)
After coolers and misc 5k +50lbs (with fluids)
That's $18k for parts (no labor) and your still limited to the 350whp safely without to the going standalone ecu and thus losing the smog advantages you wanted to begin with...

The second you go standalone and want to hit 400whp you lose smog need to add injectors and fuel pump $1000 (includied in turbo kits) and ems (FIC included with some turbo kits) aem/haltec $2500 recommended with any FI and then you should have just went turbo to begin with and have spent 21k on a CTSC system without labor and will no longer pass smog

And consider the added 125lbs to the car takes an extra 18hp just to haul itself around. (At 7pw ratio) so you really are back to only have NET relative 330whp not the 350whp.

Considering people spend thousands to take 30lbs weight off the back of the car to reduce pendelum effect for noticably improved handeling... you just stuck a dead body in the trunk...

I'm not anti-CT and turbo kits have their issues too.
Just comparing apples:apples.. if your just putting around and not out for max performace nor occasional HPDE and don't mind being passed by new $30k cars.. the CTSC does a fine job.

I agree with you about weight reduction, but that is a different aspect of increasing performance from an overall standpoint. What the OP was asking, was strictly related to FI. Weight reduction and the pros and cons of going the N/A route are not what the OP has asked. From reading your threads, you very enthusiastic about the N/A route by doing a 3.5 and destroying a Type R in terms of performance and that's fine.

It is always good to provide new ideas and feedback, but if he wants to go FI, let him, and provide him sound advice and move on. You can only "pitch the bitch" so many times....
 
Im sorry if my comment was misunderstood it really was not NA vs FI related. I really am not anti-FI.. not sure why anytime weight is mentioned it's a NA promotion.

CTSC puts the weight up TOP and in the rear.. thus a double negative pendelum effect. Adding liquid coolant weight and intercooler adds more weight in the same spot... relative to gains this is a factor to consider.

a turbo at puts the rear weight low along the axle for a single directional negative effect. And makes allot of power and allot of wow factor... enough to make up whatever balance negatives

Weight placment should be taken into consideration. FI or NA.
I Have an NSX turbo system on the shelf.. and am the previous owner of a lovefab turbo years ago. (I sold on prime) And bought and sold a CTSC never installed (sold on prime) and also have a BBSC that has been sitting on storage uninstalled for years..all this can be checked in my prime history.. im not BS... also used to track a custom roots supercharged 1988 911 that was 2700lbs with 400whp that had to caged cause it was twisting the body panels off, and not mention its heavy ass wanted swap ends at any opertunity.. so I'm far from anti-FI

Ttyl.
 
Last edited:
Patricio: do you have a link for all these ctsc weights?

My car has the Whipple 2.3l and the DA aftercooler, like 1ktogo (who's car is very light) and others on here. I am very happy with the 443whp/320tq and oem-like powerband. Anyway I was guessing 50lbs for everything.
 
Im sorry if my comment was misunderstood it really was not NA vs FI related. I really am not anti-FI.. not sure why anytime weight is mentioned it's a NA promotion.

CTSC puts the weight up TOP and in the rear.. thus a double negative pendelum effect. Adding liquid coolant weight and intercooler adds more weight in the same spot... I cant see how this is a good idea and still be left with questionable gains.

a turbo at puts the rear weight low along the axle for a single directional negative effect. And makes allot of power and allot of wow factor... enough to make up whatever balance negatives

All of this should be taken into consideration. FI or NA... it's interesting how the track guys can feel 10-20lbs in the wrong spot and Parise improved handleing wih minor balance improvments . most FI guys shrug off 75-100lbs in the REAR like it makes no difference..

I have trouble processing performance upgrades single dimensionally. If OP only wants to faster in straght line disregaurd any advice I give.

Ttyl.

You think it is not possible to be fast around a road course with FI? I don't believe that to be true at all. Dave Dozier's car is turbo and I'm sure it scoots pretty well. There are many others here who track their cars with superchargers and do pretty well.

As I said in my last response to you; your opinions are very one-sided with your enthusiasm aimed towards track use. Hence your references to going the N/A route, weight reduction, and the fact you mention tracking your car in almost every response you make. Hell, you even argue with Billy Johnson!

This is not an attack on you, but rather the fact that you often become argumentative on anyone who does not side with your ideas for the ultimate NSX. It is pretty presumptuous of you to assume this is the only thing the OP has done, or will do, to HIS car. If the man has a plan, let him work it. He asked about FI, so what is your feedback on the subject of forced induction for NSX's based on your personal experience and/or research?
 
Last edited:
Never once have I said is turbo is not fast on the track... I have no clue where you got that from.... there are allot of fast turbo cars and they are both turbo and light weight... but yes an oem weight turbo NSX WILL be slow around the track and is slow around the track.. not to mention air to air turbo setups don't even make it a few laps on the track.. I don't know anything about ddoziers car on the track with a one off turbo kit.. but i assume it's built well.... .we could also compare coz and factor x while where at it..

Experience? maybe I've raced/tracked about 25 different tracks in my lifetime over 10 years ago. in a about 5-6 countires...
What do I know. I'm a noob..

Here come the personal attacks for no good reason.
Ill keep my answers short and informitive from now on.......
CTSC good but not as great as expected... turbo yes very good...
.. i guess maybe the op should take performace advice from people who dont track their cars...

As far as the billy comment I argue/discuss (call it what u want) with him daily via text.. we share ideas...

I'm outta here.

- - - Updated - - -

Patricio: do you have a link for all these ctsc weights?

My car has the Whipple 2.3l and the DA aftercooler, like 1ktogo (who's car is very light) and others on here. I am very happy with the 443whp/320tq and oem-like powerband. Anyway I was guessing 50lbs for everything.

Others have posted the weights over the years...
I persoannly bought turbo2go's CTSC and sold it .. I have the shipping label somewhere it was 110lbs total... -34 lbs for oem manifold... Add some oil in there too. It's around 75lbs heavier than oem...

Dave's car is 2880lbs... he has more money into weight reduction than he did into the CTSC.. 1k2go is also at 2800lbs...
And a 2.3L Whipple is a whole different animal to a "CTSC" and thus taking this conversation, and my CTSC comments out of context...

You car with that 2.3L setup is probably allot of fun. And likely won't pass smog like a CTSC.. I've heard it can be done... I cant think of many negatives of your set up as it does not suffer from as much heat as the 1.7L CTSC and it makes more power... although 1k2go still felt inclined to go bigger so there a very likley chance it still does not make the full 412 under heat.... ... the question is more along the lines of would you do it the same all over again or to you sometimes wish for a turbo?.. as Dave sold his CTSC cause it was not enough and is going turbo.
 
Last edited:
Jeez.... I don't know maybe I've raced/tracked about 25 different tracks in my lifetime over 10 years ago. in a about 5-6 countires...
What do I know. I'm a noob..

What does this have to do with the price of Tea in China? Or the price of Yak Milk in Turkmenistan? It only supports what I just told you... Recommend you put on your big boy panties today...

Here come the personal attacks for no good reason. When your thee one not factoring the whole picture for whatever reasons you choose and accusing me of one sided arguments...

Really Buttercup? Read to achieve... Google translate is there for you too...

CTSC good but not as great as expected... turbo yes very good...
.. i guess maybe the op should take performace advice from people who dont track their cars...

There are plenty of owners here who track their cars and some of them posted on this thread. If you are referring to me, well, that is simple enough. No Patricio, I do not track my car at this moment as it is still being built. Being in Afghanistan also prohibits me slightly from being able to track my car at the moment. But hey, I'm still protecting your right to be a self-righteous douche. Does that work for you, buttercup? It would just break my heart if it didn't...

Others have posted the weights over the years...
I persoannly bought turbo2go's CTSC and sold it .. I have the shipping label somewhere it was 110lbs total... -34 lbs for oem manifold... Add some oil in there too. It's around 75lbs heavier than oem...

Dave's car is 2880lbs... he has more money into weight reduction than he did into the CTSC

You car with that setup is probably allot of fun.... the question is more along the lines of would you do it the same all over again or to you sometimes wish for a turbo?.. as Dave sold his CTSC cause it was not enough and is going turbo.

At last, the big boy panties are back on!! Constructive, useful, and good overall information for the OP. I knew you had it in you, buttercup!
 
What does this have to do with the price of Tea in China? Or the price of Yak Milk in Turkmenistan? It only supports what I just told you... Recommend you put on your big boy panties today...



Really Buttercup? Read to achieve... Google translate is there for you too...



There are plenty of owners here who track their cars and some of them posted on this thread. If you are referring to me, well, that is simple enough. No Patricio, I do not track my car at this moment as it is still being built. Being in Afghanistan also prohibits me slightly from being able to track my car at the moment. But hey, I'm still protecting your right to be a self-righteous douche. Does that work for you, buttercup? It would just break my heart if it didn't...



At last, the big boy panties are back on!! Constructive, useful, and good overall information for the OP. I knew you had it in you, buttercup!

OP, ^^ this guy knows his stufff... he reads about people who track their car

"Buttercup" "douche" "big boy panties".
Apparently 25 different tracks under my belt gives me no weight in the subject.

What was I thinking posting here...

I'll go back to douching around.
Thank you for your service.

.
 
Last edited:
a spirited Trump style debate.......:biggrin:
 
Jinks I have driven plenty of stock CT equipped students cars at nsxpo hpde's and I can honestly say the car feels strong leaving the pits...but after lap 3 It doesn't feel much different than my NA 3.2 with bolt ons.that is I think why Patricio is so enthusiastic about his quest for the nsx track gobstopper if you catch my drift....and I love the CT guys.. the supercharger they retrofitted was primarily done to make the average street driver smile,and it delivers.So your difference in opinions is based on perspective.....
I completely agree.
 
Back
Top