Turbo kits for dummies

Patricio said:

OP, ^^ this guy knows his stufff... he reads about people who track their car

"Buttercup" "douche" "big boy panties".
Apparently 25 different tracks under my belt gives me no weight in the subject.

What was I thinking posting here...

I'll go back to douching around.
Thank you for your service.

.

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Wow, how could I have not realized how great you are!?! I would recommend that you break out the Hooked on Phonics from your closet and read what the OP posted. From there, you can tell everyone where the OP asked about tracking his car. YOU, and only YOU, posted about tracking cars. You do this because you have low self-esteem issues and you can only feed your limited ego in places like this.

As far as me reading about people who track their cars...really? Once again, use your limited brain power and google Afghanistan. That is where I am, chief. There are no NSX's and no race tracks here.

If you are such a great racer and argue with Billy on a regular basis, who has signed you as a professional driver?

My comments were immature and I do apologize. The Army has taught me all too well that you cannot fix stupid no matter how hard you try or how much money you throw at it and that common sense is well on its way to becoming a superpower.

Tell you what, Patricio. Since you are a man of such great talent, skill, and ability; let's make a gentlemen's bet. Your car is amazing and is the fastest car around (there, I said it), so when my car is finished, let's see just how great you and your car really are.

To make things fair, pick a driver and a track. From there, we can really see what you know and how great your car actually is. I will ship my car to a track of your choosing and pay a driver to drive both of our vehicles that way there is a neutral bias. The car with the fastest lap time, wins! I will provide you a handicap. I will leave my full interior, sound system, and I will have to run a minimum of 17" or 18" wheels (because of my brakes) on/in the car for this event. I do not know what year your car is, but I have an 05, so there may be an additional handicap with regards to weight and chassis stiffness dependent on what year your car is.

Should I win, you will bring a bottle of Patron Platinum and a Cigar of my choice to my house in Virginia when I return home. We can have a few laughs, then go our separate ways. Yes, we can even talk about how great you are!

Should you win, I will bring you a bottle of your choice and a Cigar (if you smoke them) to a place of your choosing. We can have a few laughs, I will be your loyal student, then go our separate ways. Yes, we can still talk about how great you are and how the world should appreciate you more than it already does.

What say you? Deal? It should be fun and this way you will be able to show everyone that you really know your stuff!

a spirited Trump style debate.......

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Ain't life great!

Your car looks great by the way, good luck with the build. and your bet sounds like a good time. so I'd accept.

So, I'm struggling here with my low self esteem and limited ego and brain power and inability to read. so help me out.... I'm sorry to hear your perception is that my goal in life is bragging about tracking a 25 year old car on a online forum.. and my money can't fix my stupidity nor my lack of common sense, and somehow I don't know where Afghanistan is....
now that we have that out of the way.

My car is not the fastest around by any stretch of the imagination.. nor have I claimed it to be... and I publicly posted my inferior driving of 2.5 seconds slower than billy on a 1:41 lap.. sure I can argue with billy about anything except driving... he's an outstanding driver and has very diverse knowledgeable in many areas of the industry but last time I checked hes not an engine builder nor engineer which is the only subject we have been disagreeing on is the J35 build, otherwise were usually on the same page.


My first post was agreeing to ddoziers comments specifically in regards to the CTSC only putting out 310whp on a "track" whom others have confirmed on this thread...
Track experience relates to performance AND relibility on and off track... anyone whom prefers to take performance recomendations and advice from people that do not track their cars, many times end up with a non-performing car on the street since many modifications are downgrades... I've been in enough downgraded NSX'S as I'm sure many here have as well. If wanted a gaurentteed zero failure cross country trip without fail I would take a track rat car before a street car..

There is no sense arguing any further the personal offenses are necessary. If i wanted to brag... like most people, i'd brag about my life achievements and assets. Not a 25 year old car that is a hobby

Patricio said:

My car is not the fastest by any stretch of the imagination.. and I publicly posted my inferior driving of 2.5 seconds slower than billy on a 1:41 lap.. sure I can argue with billy about anything except driving... last time I checked he's not an engine builder nor a leading engineer.

Im struggling here with my low self esteem and limited ego and brain power so help me out.... So from what you've gathered my goal in life is bragging about tracking a 25 year old car on a online forum.. and my money can't fix my stupidity nor my lack of common sense.

My first post was agreeing to ddoziers comments specifically in regards to the CTSC only putting out 310whp on a "track" whom others have confirmed on this thread...
Track experience relates to performance on and off track... anyone whom prefers to take performance recomendations and advice from people that do not track their cars many times (not always) end up with a non-performing car on the street since many modifications are downgrades.

There is no sense arguing any further the personal offenses are unecessary. If i wanted to brag, id brag about my life achivements and assets. Not a 25 year old car that is a hobby

My apolidgies to the OP if my contributions were out of context

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Brother, from what I gather your goal is to show everyone that you know everything. We call this a know it all. I dunno, being 2.5 seconds off from a professional racer isn't too bad in my books, perhaps you are hard on yourself - I dunno and don't really care.

The only reason I am even keeping this going and side-tracking the OPs great thread is because of the way you argue and rub people the wrong way. Yes, you have bragged about importing an NA-1 NSX-R, about previous cars you've owned (i.e. a Porsche and I cannot remember what else you listed at the time).

I agree that track experience can make you a better builder of an automobile. That is is exactly why I am giving you the chance to prove your theory. Since I do not seem to be a man with your talents, experience, wealth, and charm; this wager should be nothing for you. Your car should outperform mine in every aspect due to your many years of track experience and my utter lack of experience.

Personally, I applaud your efforts in your N/A approach and your creative efforts in weight reduction. It is your delivery on the subject that leaves something to be desired. There has only been two times on Prime that I have ever lost my patience and they have been with you because of your constant bickering with good people who are merely trying to provide help to others.

Time to put your theory into action. So now, about that wager....

P.S. I even chose a cheap bottle!

Wow good thread up until about post #23 .
Was really quite bored until then, Patricio I am on the same path asyou light weight and NA power but this thread is not about NA power or weight reduction or track car specs.
Its about FI for his wants and needs.
To the OP there is another option getting worked on and thats a Rotrex kit I dont know whats best but you should look at that as another option before you pull the trigger

scammy said:

Wow good thread up until about post #23 .
Was really quite bored until then, Patricio I am on the same path asyou light weight and NA power but this thread is not about NA power or weight reduction or track car specs.
Its about FI for his wants and needs.

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Thanks Cam,

That is the point I've been trying to make!

01a4man said:

That is the point I've been trying to make!

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No worries mate, we're all too passionate at times about this car. I dont want to go FI but really like looking at all options because who knows maybe someday I will change my mind and go to the dark side

[MENTION=9874]01a4man[/MENTION]

Sure I'll take the wager it sounds like fun. and your car looks great
maybe at NSXPO in FL this year if your back from service.

To me talking about accomplishments with the NSX is just for fun and I enjoy and do feel DYI accomplishment from doing it myself just as you do.

Oh I want to play too. Honestly if it's a short track like nj then Tiago will have the advantage. Either way I enjoy tequila so good luck to both of you!

Game on! Stephen, you are more than welcome to join in. Do either of you have a driver in mind?

I know NSXPO will be in Florida, but any idea what track? I won't be home by then, but I can certainly make sure the car is there. Me likes tequila too!

Haha we can drive our own cars! we both haven't driven our cars in awhile either so it should be interesting.

I'll have to talk to Gil to see if he wants to go. I won't be home by then, but we have to find a neutral party to drive so it's fair!

BTW,

Does this mean I will get two bottles and two cigars when the smurf-mobile wins? :biggrin:

sebring a track that rewards HP and aero.....stuntman would be the best driver to settle the who's is faster......

docjohn said:

sebring a track that rewards HP and aero.....stuntman would be the best driver to settle the who's is faster......

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I was going to suggest you!

Thanks for the thought but Billy is a pro with a lot more recent seat time than Me...He also has the skills to hold it together past 10/10 ,,witness his numerous track records in TA with FX.....I've only been to sebring once,and that was 10 years ago.....I am consistent though, once familiar with a track, so in the end thats what you need ..the ultimate lap time is less important than the delta between the competing cars.

Bring it!!!

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docjohn said:

.......not for dummies..................stupid................

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See that is why I went ctsc Doc, I am a dummy. Ignorance is bliss. But I do thoroughly enjoy every minute behind the wheel when the blower snarls and rumbles. I have come to a turning point in ownership that makes me realize a 91 Nsx will never be top dog again. Even if I dump 100k into it. There is always something new, something faster, something more advanced. I will just enjoy being ignorant and love what I own. I do not feel the need to be competitive in a classic car nipping at the heels of oem Japanese or German engineers.
Also, I am not taking offense or directly speaking to this quoted post at your personally. I understand what you are saying.
I am just adding in my own comments. Btw, are you a doctor? I have this lump thing growing.:biggrin:

Patricio is off on the weight of the CTSC. What he is forgetting is that besides the 35 pound manifold that comes off, the box he got from me also contains a new alternator and bracket. A heavier alternator comes off the car. There are other things that come off as well (they are exchanged). The CTSC does not add 75 pounds. It adds some, but it isn't that much. My personal guess is there is most likely around a 25-50 pound net gain, max.

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Nuemoney, if it was me and I lived in CA, I would do exactly what Shad is doing on 1k2go's car. That is a 2.3L blower, his intercoooler, engine management. That is if you want more than 400 HP. You can fudge it a little and use a CARB exempt sticker and pass off such a system as a CTSC.

TURBO2GO said:

Patricio is off on the weight of the CTSC. What he is forgetting is that besides the 35 pound manifold that comes off, the box he got from me also contains a new alternator and bracket. A heavier alternator comes off the car. There are other things that come off as well (they are exchanged). The CTSC does not add 75 pounds. It adds some, but it isn't that much. My personal guess is there is most likely around a 25-50 pound net gain, max.

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Nuemoney, if it was me and I lived in CA, I would do exactly what Shad is doing on 1k2go's car. That is a 2.3L blower, his intercoooler, engine management. That is if you want more than 400 HP. You can fudge it a little and use a CARB exempt sticker and pass off such a system as a CTSC.

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its not like I'm making stuff up as i go here.... its been referenced many times on prime.

to be more technical the manifold including fuel rails it replaces is only 23.6lbs (35lbs is total unit including the oem throttle body which is reused)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/tiago3/Mobile Uploads/20151212_180546.jpg
the original alternator bracket remains on the car since it is also an engine mount. the new alternator bracket is an addition to the old bracket.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b282/junior40er/My NSX/DSC00471.jpg
the new honda prelude alternator the ctsc uses is about 2lbs lighter than the oem alternator it replaces. i guess that helps.

estimates on prime are 75-85lbs net weight gain once factoring in additional fluids/oil, just for basic ctsc not including aftermarket cooling systems and fluids.

these are all links to the real world results of basic un-intercooled CTSC under full acceleration:
factor X 12.7sec 1/4 http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/14810-Factor-X-Modified-CTSC-Runs-at-NHRA-in-Sonoma
12.5sec and 12.6 sec here http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/84383-1-4-mile-times-with-mods
comptech themselves only ran a 13 sec http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/29494-Why-did-Comptech-NSX-only-run-a-13-0-sec-1-4
12.9sec http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/60322-CTSC-Performance-Question
13.2sec http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...erformance-Seems-low-could-something-be-wrong

Basic CTSC is good for about about .2 to .3 seconds faster than an 02-05 NA2's that runs 12.9-13.2.. and some NA I/H/E nsx's have run high 12's on prime.. NSX-R, type-zero and type-S all run run around 12.7....

no need to take my word for it. The info is on prime.

TURBO2GO said:

Patricio is off on the weight of the CTSC. What he is forgetting is that besides the 35 pound manifold that comes off, the box he got from me also contains a new alternator and bracket. A heavier alternator comes off the car. There are other things that come off as well (they are exchanged). The CTSC does not add 75 pounds. It adds some, but it isn't that much. My personal guess is there is most likely around a 25-50 pound net gain, max.

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Nuemoney, if it was me and I lived in CA, I would do exactly what Shad is doing on 1k2go's car. That is a 2.3L blower, his intercoooler, engine management. That is if you want more than 400 HP. You can fudge it a little and use a CARB exempt sticker and pass off such a system as a CTSC.

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Thats ts pretty interesting. I might have to visit shad and get more in detail with what he's doing with 1k2go's car. Thanks

Neumoney said:

Thats ts pretty interesting. I might have to visit shad and get more in detail with what he's doing with 1k2go's car. Thanks

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Just check out Rob's "1K2go's" profile here on prime. He documents everything. Ct engineering and Driving ambition are not some push overs in the Nsx community. They are well respected. They know the formula but the damn epa make it difficult for them to be as competitive as say a car owner in Florida where recycling trash is not mandatory. Lots of trash in Florida. I've lived there many years.
FYI, frequent some track racing sites. There is a petition going on right now where the epa is going after race spec cars for emissions. Everyone is trying to get signatures to prevent this from taking effect. Gas spitting turbo cars will be the next right we loose here in America.

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For example,
My good friend from Maryland has a vendor approved low boost turbo kit which was bought here on prime.
He bragged at me for a few months. That was until, he was racing on track... His motor completely blew up from over boosting. This was on a 8 psi waste gate spring. His argument was, " but I flew past a noble like it was standing still!".
Yes, he did. But he never finished the race. His car sat for a year awaiting rods and a new oem crankshaft from Honda Japan. Since then, the turbo kit was removed. What fun is a car if you cannot jump in and drive it legally?

Blowing an engine from over boosting on someone's budget turbo kit is like saying I blew my engine on a Dali boostzilla supercharger with an ecu tuner by Mark Basch. There are many components that play a factor and quality of secondary components/correct engine management play a huge deal.

With that being I'm going to assume it was a aem fic being used since even my ems series 1 cuts off when boost spikes.

Sduff@Composites said:

Blowing an engine from over boosting on someone's budget turbo kit is like saying I blew my engine on a Dali boostzilla supercharger with an ecu tuner by Mark Basch. There are many components that play a factor and quality of secondary components/correct engine management play a huge deal.

With that being I'm going to assume it was a aem fic being used since even my ems series 1 cuts off when boost spikes.

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But that was my determining factor. Yes you may be higher horsepower, yes you may be faster, but it is all in the tune...
Unfortunately, not all have access to direct safe tuning. I think that this is something to consider with a blower versus a hairdryer. It is all in the tune. Like my previous post many pages ago, If you know the guy who gets it done, go turbo. If not, and your not as in tune in a tuning community, go ctsc blown.
Just sharing my experience. I jump into my car, start it, tear ass, then shut it down. No turbo timers to cool cooked oil, no b.s., no nightmares. Oem idle,oem ecu, oem engine monitoring. Yes, I know it is 70 hp less than a turbo, but it doesn't need constant cash raining down on it.

Even a good NA build needs a competent tuner not just FI engines, I know your CTSC is on the stock ecu because of your smog regulations but it will not be as good as an AM ecu with a good safe tune

scammy said:

Even a good NA build needs a competent tuner not just FI engines, I know your CTSC is on the stock ecu because of your smog regulations but it will not be as good as an AM ecu with a good safe tune

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Yes I agree. That is my next engine upgrade. Slightly higher boost, fuel pump, injectors, and a aem fic.
Shad is really good at tuning the fic safely and I can probably be much closer to 400 hp mark. I am just taking it in stride.

I hope that's a typo and you're typing aem ems.

Okay I just got caught up on this thread. And there is a ton of info on here. So after taking it all in, I came to this conclusion....What was the OP's original question? It didn't appear to me that he was going for Dyno Day Championships or a track record. I thought he was looking for something a bit simpler than weight reduction etc. There is no right or wrong answer here as to which way to bring more performance to your car. The route you take should be determined by how you want to enjoy your car and the size of your wallet.