How to bleed the 91 abs system without the T wrench

Does anyone know if you can successfully bleed the pressure off the abs system without the discontinued T wrench? My abs pump chatters and clicks for 30 minutes of driving before it shuts the hell up. I wanted to completely drain and refill the system prior to taking it in to possibly having the accumulator replaced.

I don't think that is possible, the pressure in the ALB system is very high, If I recall I believe it is something like 300 psi. So you don't what brake fluid all over your self and the paint job of the car.
Have you try a Honda dealer, as they would have this tool a too.

Bram

I have not tried any dealer yet or mechanic. I tried searching for the T wrench online everywhere and also posted a wtb thread for one but no luck so far. These are discontinued.... I had driving ambition flush the system last year and it stopped for a while. I am literally pulling the abs fuses as we speak because the pump now runs everytime I approach a stop. Was the abs pump known for chattering like this when new and building up pressure? Seems like an awful noise for Honda engineers to let slip through the cracks and into production.

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I have also read the Dano thread about bleeding the system without the special wrench but I want to completely remove the system from the car and put it on my work bench. Not just flush the system. Any advice would be great!

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The weird thing is, the pump runs all the time almost but I never throw a abs light. I have confirmed the abs light works as well.

it sounds like you have a couple of stickery/dirty solenoid within the ALB...did you read Warren upgrade procedure, using his kit?. Assuming that you want to rebuild the system.

I have never had this problem on my car, however I change the brake fluid every two years, and believe this is the key.

Bram

Bram said:

it sounds like you have a couple of stickery/dirty solenoid within the ALB...did you read Warren upgrade procedure, using his kit?. Assuming that you want to rebuild the system.

I have never had this problem on my car, however I change the brake fluid every two years, and believe this is the key.

Bram

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Thanks for the response Bram. I have had a few members willing to loan and rent out the tool since posting.
Always good to know I never go at the car alone.
Thanks prime members.

Some 'T' wrenches for sale on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-SPE...1-T-WRENCH-R-D-CENTRE-NIIZA-SHI-/191809288455

Personally I'd put the money and effort towards the later ABS system....neater, lighter, safer...

Jinks said:

Does anyone know if you can successfully bleed the pressure off the abs system without the discontinued T wrench? My abs pump chatters and clicks for 30 minutes of driving before it shuts the hell up. I wanted to completely drain and refill the system prior to taking it in to possibly having the accumulator replaced.

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Follow the solenoïd flush procedure here : http://www.danoland.com/nsxgarage/brakes/abs/abs.htm
It is the best way to flush the system. Even better than using the T wrench tool as it also flushes the solenoïds. You will see some dirt coming out when you activate them. Remove the old fluid and the dirts, use a lot of fresh fluid and enjoy.

It won't be the last time you need the bleeder tool. Mine became an annual event, until I was able to rebuild the modulator and get all the dirt out of the system.
If you find a bleeder tool, buy it. You will need it again..
Use the Danoland procedure mentioned above to flush. Use my write up to rebuild the modulator.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/162710-ABS-ALB-modulator-rebuild-write-up

Jinks said:

Does anyone know if you can successfully bleed the pressure off the abs system without the discontinued T wrench? My abs pump chatters and clicks for 30 minutes of driving before it shuts the hell up. I wanted to completely drain and refill the system prior to taking it in to possibly having the accumulator replaced.

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Recently several of us have been flushing the abs systems. Joe Scavone, at my request, developed a plug and play system for assisting in flushing the abs system which has since become a hot item. Here is a link to his thread. There are also a lot of recent posts on FB Prime
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7990613243/search/?query=joe scavone
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...nergizing-Exercising-on-1st-GEN-ABS-Modulator
https://youtu.be/j0w9pKs00QE

nsxspdfreak said:

Recently several of us have been flushing the abs systems. Joe Scavone, at my request, developed a plug and play system for assisting in flushing the abs system which has since become a hot item. Here is a link to his thread. There are also a lot of recent posts on FB Prime
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7990613243/search/?query=joe scavone
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...nergizing-Exercising-on-1st-GEN-ABS-Modulator
https://youtu.be/j0w9pKs00QE

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Thanks for the links. Great video. I am not on Facebook though. Does he sell these plug and play systems? Otherwise I think I will just pick up the alligator clips and toggle switches.

Jinks said:

Thanks for the links. Great video. I am not on Facebook though. Does he sell these plug and play systems? Otherwise I think I will just pick up the alligator clips and toggle switches.

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Yes he does. He's already sold a lot of them. That's Joe's post in prime that I gave you the link to. Just contact him through the post. He's currently waiting for a new supply of PB switches, but I think he said they should be in today. His plug and play system makes flushing the ABS a breeze and fast.
I also have the bleeder tool, but the vent fitting is really stuck on so I was afraid to force it. Instead I just flushed the system once, re-filled and re-pressurized and flushed it again.

I know most of the folks here think you need to do something elaborate with the old ABS, but I don't agree. Take the car out to a bumpy or sandy stretch of road and stand on the brakes. Rinse and repeat. Then suck the dirty fluid out of the reservoir with a turkey baster and replace it with fresh DOT4. Problem solved.

Shouldn't you be getting royalties? :greedy_dollars: lol

nsxspdfreak said:

Recently several of us have been flushing the abs systems. Joe Scavone, at my request, developed a plug and play system for assisting in flushing the abs system which has since become a hot item. Here is a link to his thread. There are also a lot of recent posts on FB Prime
https://www.facebook.com/groups/7990613243/search/?query=joe scavone
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...nergizing-Exercising-on-1st-GEN-ABS-Modulator
https://youtu.be/j0w9pKs00QE

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Scrapdog2grand said:

Shouldn't you be getting royalties? :greedy_dollars: lol

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Yeah, What's with that! Must be a Joysey thing.

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cmthomson said:

I know most of the folks here think you need to do something elaborate with the old ABS, but I don't agree. Take the car out to a bumpy or sandy stretch of road and stand on the brakes. Rinse and repeat. Then suck the dirty fluid out of the reservoir with a turkey baster and replace it with fresh DOT4. Problem solved.

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I guess that's one way of doing it

Much thanks to everyone who posted here. I just ordered a kit from Joe aka scrapdog2grand. Also, a local nor cal member will be bringing me a T wrench to borrow free of charge tomorrow at the nor cal hoodie pick up/ meet that dahlsim organized. Thanks again everyone for the help and support. Its why I love being an nsx owner!

cmthomson said:

I know most of the folks here think you need to do something elaborate with the old ABS, but I don't agree. Take the car out to a bumpy or sandy stretch of road and stand on the brakes. Rinse and repeat. Then suck the dirty fluid out of the reservoir with a turkey baster and replace it with fresh DOT4. Problem solved.

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That's another way of doing ! But when I had a stuck solenoid, I needed to activate i at least 20 times till it finally moved.

asylum said:

But when I had a stuck solenoid, I needed to activate it at least 20 times till it finally moved.

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Yeah, I had one that took about 10 tries. The previous owner didn't even know what ABS was...

For those who haven't read the many threads on this topic, the issue with the first generation ABS (other than the racket the pump makes) was a relief slot in the lid of the ABS reservoir that lined up with the wash from the radiator fan. So if you drove through a cloud of dust or small flying insects, a bunch would end up in the ABS and eventually gunk up the solenoid O-rings. Exercising the ABS regularly almost always resolves this. But when the fluid is dark brown, it's time to replace it.

I think I might have a pressure leak or a failing pump. I have the abs bleeder tool and ran the pump about 20 seconds. The pump sounds tired and weak. When I open the system with the bleeder wrench barely anything comes out and it just drips down onto the floor and not through the bleeder wrench. In a last ditch effort I have Joe's kit on the way. If that doesn't work, I think I could grow to love the car without that chattering pump. Hopefully my new michelins will improve braking if I need to disable the abs permanently.

It reservoir full? While running the pump you should see the fluid lever drop slowly. If a solenoid is leaking you will see it come back through the return at the bottom of the reservoir. The pump in my car sounds pretty weak till the pressure come up a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMiPhSjMRSw

Jinks said:

I think I might have a pressure leak or a failing pump. I have the abs bleeder tool and ran the pump about 20 seconds. The pump sounds tired and weak. When I open the system with the bleeder wrench barely anything comes out and it just drips down onto the floor and not through the bleeder wrench. In a last ditch effort I have Joe's kit on the way. If that doesn't work, I think I could grow to love the car without that chattering pump. Hopefully my new michelins will improve braking if I need to disable the abs permanently.

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Scrapdog2grand said:

It reservoir full? While running the pump you should see the fluid lever drop slowly. If a solenoid is leaking you will see it come back through the return at the bottom of the reservoir. The pump in my car sounds pretty weak till the pressure come up a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMiPhSjMRSw

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Yeah there is plenty fluid in the reservoir and when I run the pump the fluid barely moves. Maybe I am not running it long enough? But the pump makes noises as if it slows down when powered. I will give it a go again this weekend.

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I can take a video later but my pump makes squealing noises like a fan motor with bad bearings sounds.

Jinks said:

my pump makes squealing noises like a fan motor with bad bearings sounds.

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That sounds normal.

Well, looks likeI will just learn to live without the abs for awhile. I think my accumulator is leaking. I run the pump and I hear an air leak with no fluid being drawn. It sounds like it is coming from the accumulator area.

I got one of Joe's solenoid harnesses and the pump switch. I hooked everything up per Joe's video.

If I go through the process in the video, I get very little happening in the ABS brake fluid reservoir. When I pressurize the system, the fluid level drops very slightly (only about 1/16"), then when I activate any solenoid it returns to the original level. The fluid in the reservoir is very clean and never changes. I never get any dirty fluid or aerating per the video.

I hooked up the separate pump switch so I can run the pump. If I run the pump for a few seconds it slows down, so the system is pressurizing. No change in the reservoir at this point. If I select a solenoid and run the pump, the system pressurizes, then releases when I activate the solenoid. If I deactivate the solenoid the system pressurizes again (pump slows down). It does the same thing for each of the 4 solenoids. Only takes about 5 seconds of pump running for it to pressurize with the solenoids closed.

There is no change in the quality of the fluid in the reservoir no matter what I do. The fluid in the reservoir is very clean, only slightly darker than fresh fluid, and never changes. I never get any dirty fluid or aerating per the video.

Maybe there's nothing wrong with my ABS? The pump runs for about 5 seconds when I first head out, then I'll hear it run occasionally if I'm around town or at a stop. I can feel the ABS activating if i purposely activate it on a gravel or wet road. I have no record of the ABS ever being worked on, but I can't believe that it's OK with 24 years, 136K miles and no service. I looked at all the mounting bolts etc., doesn't look like anything's ever been touched. Maybe I'm just lucky?

I gave up on mine. Drives great without it. Left the pump relay left out to disable. No abs or tcs lights come on. Just smooth and quiet. Brakes exactly the same if ya ask me.

Thinking about that... also thought about the delete kit but that's more drastic and I hate going too far away from OEM. But there's always the chance you'll wish you had ABS some day. Mulling it all over. I'm guessing mine is just how they work.