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Michelin pss review
- Thread starter Jinks
- Start date
I am right at 1 inch with the pss up front. So you may get just a slight skip of the fender liner like I do under aggressive compression depending on your suspension set up.
Update: These tires wear like nothing I have seen on my car. I took the wheels off last weekend to make bump adjustments on my V3's and the tread was even all the way across the rears. The PSS paired with the KW V3 is boss. I can turn sharper and faster with barely a feeling of breaking free. I might try the nsx-r front sway with this. Any advice?
Can you expand on this?
Uneven treadwear is usually do to alignment settings. Aggressive camber and toe would lead to a uneveness across the rear. What's your alignment settings?
Also, just to summarize these do have rubbing issues on the fenderliner on a 225/35/18 on a 18x8 +37, right? I was really hoping the answer would be no issues.. :frown:
Lastly, still no TCS issues to report? Thanks!
I think he's saying that the tread wear IS even. Michelin has done A LOT with the carcass and construction of the tire to reduce deflection and improve the wear of the tire. They also use different compounds on the inner edge that wears better while using a softer compound on the outer edge (or half) of the tire for cornering grip to get the best of both worlds: wear & grip.
265/30-19 is within the factory TCS tolerances when using a 225/35-18 front tire. So are 275/30-19, 285/30-19, & 295/30-19. 305/30-19 is JUST outside the OEM tolerance but would probably still work fine.
265/30-19 is within the factory TCS tolerances when using a 225/35-18 front tire. So are 275/30-19, 285/30-19, & 295/30-19. 305/30-19 is JUST outside the OEM tolerance but would probably still work fine.
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Yes, I was referring to my last few sets of tires being worn in the rear inner sections even after conservative alignments. Though, I cannot comment on my current alignment specs due to me being extremely lazy/busy to have one done. Since I put these tires on, I installed some KW V3's and I am still playing with ride height. So I have held off. I have about 1500 miles on the set. That was why I was so amazed because I am sure the alignment is not within any reasonable spec. But to my amazement, the tires looked even front to back.
I am actually pretty darn low on the fronts with the V3. The only time it contacts the fender liner clip is when I hit a dip at high very high speed cornering. I am hoping that maybe a stiffer front sway bar will somewhat help with that load transfer. Maybe you or [MENTION=16531]stuntman[/MENTION] can comment on that? No traction control issues what so ever. No rubbing at full lock on the advan's. The ride and performance of these tires paired with the V3's is insane. I can go harder and harder in turns. But then again, I am an average Joe not a weekend track racer. YET...
Pics of your car from the front to see how much the first are cambered in?
Which clip is it hitting?
Which clip is it hitting?
Do you need angled pics? Or just gap pics? The top clip area makes contact In the driver front under hard compression at high speed switch direction corners/S-curves it makes a slight skipping contact. Let me take some pics tomorrow and give you my current V3 settings. Much thanks.
Pics of the rubbing and pics from the front of the car looking down the side where you can see the tire leaned inward with camber.
I'm asking because I have a 215/35-18 and 265/30-19 right now and I get the TCS flashing on hard acceleration on my 1995. I didn't have the issue on my previous 215/35-18 with 275/30-19 combinations. I also don't have the issue with my 17/18 set of 215/40-17 and 265/35-18. I'm worried that a 225/35-18 and 265/30-19 will have TCS issues based on my experience.
That's interesting since:
The 265/35-18 is 6.3% larger in OD than the 215/40-17, meanwhile
the 265/30-19 is 5.9% larger in OD than the 215/35-18
Both the 265/30-19 & 275/30-19 are right in the middle of the factory tolerances for a 215/35-18, but the 265/30-19 is right on the edge of the factory tolerance for the 225/30-18.
How much power does your car have? What tires were you running on the 17/18 and 18/19 setups? Were you getting TCS flashing in high gears? Are you sure you weren't getting wheel spin?
Did you mean to say 225/35-18 there?
As for the TCS, so far it seems like it's limited to 1st and 2nd on a CTSC car. I have to check on 3rd, but there are few roads that I get an opportunity to do that here.
As for wheel spin, it sure doesn't feel like there's any going on. The tires aren't squealing and the back doesn't get loose.. just a TCS light flashing like crazy.
Also to note are the fronts are mounted to a 18x8.5" and the rear is on a 19x10". I suspect the additional tire stretch would slightly affect the overall tire diameter.
Yes, I meant 225/35-18.
What tire are you using with the 265/30-19?
Not sure what to say, CTSC can spin tires in 1st & 2nd...
Stretching a tire doesn't have much effect on the tire's OD.
What tire are you using with the 265/30-19?
Not sure what to say, CTSC can spin tires in 1st & 2nd...
Stretching a tire doesn't have much effect on the tire's OD.
@stuntman, it's been dark way early now so I am going to wait until Saturday to provide you with some pics of my drivers fender so that you might possibly help out with recommendations. Will definitely get back to you, do you think a stiffer sway bay may help out at all? Or is it more directly linked to the toe or camber of the alignment?
Thanks,
AJ.
Thanks,
AJ.
I think an NSX-R bar would be a worthwhile addition.
Here's a few shots of the front. The crack in the fender was courtesy of Before Christ (BC) coilovers.
Currecntly my V3 is set for 5clicks from hard up front for bump, 7 clicks from hard on the rears.
5 clicks from hard up front for the rebound and 6 clicks from hard on the rear. I actually like it slightly softer setting for the rear.
Attachments
Which clip is it hitting?
It hits the top clip and the clip at say 3 o'clock facing the drivers position. The oem liner has a squared off region for the clips and that is where it rubs ONLY under load changes at high speed. While I have your attention, do you think a thicker sway bar may help with this? The tire ONLY rubs at load transfer and NOT if I am flying like a bat out of hell on the freeway at 100 mph+ while hitting a dip or bump. It only happens during hard cornering. I have been searching all day on Prime about sway bars and quite frankly I trust you 100% on recommendations. I followed your Michelin PSS threads and bought Michelins, then followed your thoughts on KW and purchased them. The car has never driven better before either of these. So I am hoping you could steer me into the right direction for reducing the body roll I seem to be having.
Or do you think it is directly linked to alignment specs? Originally I was considering the type R front sway bar, but it seems more fit at this point to have a fully adjustable bar such as SOS or CT just in case I do not like it. Keep in mind I am a 265 pound man so the drivers side is always and only the area that ever makes contact during my high speed driving.
Thank you so much for the help, if I ever get to nsxpo I owe you many beers.
You can bend the metal tab on the lip of the fender with you hands a little, ~45 degrees to improve clearance. Maximizing your front camber will also help, as will corner-weighting the car with you in it (to adjust the ride height based off your weight in the car).
Yes a stiffer front roll bar would probably be better from a balance and reduced roll standpoint.
You probably don't to change out your rear bar, so NSX-R is an easy and inexpensive solution. CT is a little more expensive and you don't need the rear bar in the F&R kit, but you do have 3 positions to adjust the balance. For a lot more money, you can get the Pole2Flag bladed bars, which makes adjusting the bars VERY quick and easy, and you don't need to unbolt the bar and bolt it in. Just loosen the blade and turn it. Takes ~5 mins vs unbolting:
http://www.pole2flagracing.com/bladed-anti-roll-bar-20.html
But you don't really need the rear bar either, and i'm not sure if they just sell the front.
Haha, thanks but I haven't been to XPO in many years, even though this year was in my backyard ~1hr away.
Yes a stiffer front roll bar would probably be better from a balance and reduced roll standpoint.
You probably don't to change out your rear bar, so NSX-R is an easy and inexpensive solution. CT is a little more expensive and you don't need the rear bar in the F&R kit, but you do have 3 positions to adjust the balance. For a lot more money, you can get the Pole2Flag bladed bars, which makes adjusting the bars VERY quick and easy, and you don't need to unbolt the bar and bolt it in. Just loosen the blade and turn it. Takes ~5 mins vs unbolting:
http://www.pole2flagracing.com/bladed-anti-roll-bar-20.html
But you don't really need the rear bar either, and i'm not sure if they just sell the front.
Haha, thanks but I haven't been to XPO in many years, even though this year was in my backyard ~1hr away.
For my car, I ended up having a body shop roll the front fenders, then cutting a slit in the fenderliner at about the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions when looking at the wheel. I then took that flap of fenderliner and tucked it behind the metal tabs that the plastic clips push into (see example pix below). Both the tabs and the fender are rolled to about 80 degrees.
Also, I have the NSX-R front sway bar, NSX-R front chassis bars, a STMPO rear strut tower bar and the KWv3s with the KW factory recommended bound/rebound setting. I very much like the setup on the last track day, but will probably fiddle with the bound/rebound settings on my next outting.
Also, I have the NSX-R front sway bar, NSX-R front chassis bars, a STMPO rear strut tower bar and the KWv3s with the KW factory recommended bound/rebound setting. I very much like the setup on the last track day, but will probably fiddle with the bound/rebound settings on my next outting.
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My 18/19 set has 215/35-18 and 265/30-19 Federal SS-595s on 18x8.5 +42 and 19x10 +22 Enkei RPF1 Type RCs. These are pretty stretched.
My 17/18 set has 215/40-17 and 265/35-18 Dunlop Direzza ZII Starspecs on 17x8 +40 and 18x9.5 +39 TSW Geneva. These are pretty square.
For my car, I ended up having a body shop roll the front fenders, then cutting a slit in the fenderliner at about the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions when looking at the wheel. I then took that flap of fenderliner and tucked it behind the metal tabs that the plastic clips push into (see example pix below). Both the tabs and the fender are rolled to about 80 degrees.
Also, I have the NSX-R front sway bar, NSX-R front chassis bars, a STMPO rear strut tower bar and the KWv3s with the KW factory recommended bound/rebound setting. I very much like the setup on the last track day, but will probably fiddle with the bound/rebound settings on my next outting.
Did the nsx-r sway bar eliminate body roll? I'm torn between that and an adjustable set.
No it doesn't. It reduces body roll, but doesn't eliminate it. I would not buy the NSX-R sway bar expecting it to eliminate your rubbing issues. It's a great addition for handling purposes but I would not buy it expecting it to fix rubbing issues.
The best way to eliminate rubbing issues, IMHO, is to use a tried and true 215/35-18 front tire instead (I know its not available in the Michelin PSS). Remember that a 225/35-18 is not only wider, but it's also taller.
The ways to reduce the rubbing would be to for free: 1) Roll your fenders and tuck the fenderliner behind the tabs 2) stiffen up the front suspension 3) raise the front suspension 4) add additional front negative camber
I've spoken to another NSX owner here in AZ who has the Michelin PSS in 225/35-18 who has Downforce fenders and he still has rubbing issues.
For reference, this is my car when I had the NSX-R front sway with my older Eibach Spring/Bilstein strut suspension combo. We're on a skidpad, just doing high speed circles. Tires were the original Dunlop Startspec ZI.
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The PSS is so far my favorite tire but it is NOT as grippy in the dry as any of the extreme performance tires like the AD08R, Dunlop's ZII, RE71, etc. I know this tire extremely well because under my car it has seen small tracks, lots of autocross, large tracks... I have ran it hard cold, hot, in the dry, in the wet, in a monsoon... I have driven it mildly off-road, I have driven it on 7 hour trips, on the streets, literally everywhere. I can tell you that Midnight Raven and I have near identical cars except engine where I have a 3.2 and he has a 3.0.... He is running a set of high end Bilstein double adjustables with remote reservoirs with 1000/600 pound springs, I am running double adjustable JRZ motorsport race dampers on 800/550 springs. He and I are both 6 speed. I can get out of my car and get into his and instantly run a quicker time, he gets into mine and instantly runs a slower time. The major difference in our cars is tires. He is running the Dunlop ZII and I am on the PSS. When it gets wet, its a different story. We have a significant noise an ride compliance difference, but I also am running 225/FORTY/18 and 275/35/19 so I have a much taller sidewall than him and you. My favorite thing about the PSS is not the grip, or ride, or noise, or wear... which are all great. My favorite thing is the tire's consitency. Lap after lap, cold, hot, wet, dry, no matter what you do with it, it stays consistent and I can count on it. It also breaks away gently. Midnight Raven calls me "drift king Junior". I love getting sideways with it. At my last high speed autocross I went into a turn just too hard.... beyond redline in second (just bounced off the limiter) which on my car because of the oversized tires reads 85 MPH on GPS. I tried to bring it back but I could not, and I spun 360 degrees a full 4 times.... I ended of at the other end of the airport runway. With enough tire smoke to come into the car. I have pushed these tires that hard. They just always give me feedback. I have thought about going to sport cups but I enjoy the lack of grip. All these tires most people put on street cars in the extreme performance category at the rack... ZII, AD08R, RT615, RE71R's, are bad street tires IMO. They are too hard core, and do too many things poorly. The PSS dials all that back and makes it much more livable.
Thanks for the response. Unfortunately the PSS are here to stay. I just love these tires. I still have my brand new nitto 215's in bags. I think I might go with a ct sway bar and only use the front with a pair a TI Dave's sway bar links. Also, that is a whole lot of sway on your car. Have you tried any others bars other than the type r? Currently I run a carbing rear strut bar, front nsx-r bar, I took the lower type r bar off due to rubbing issues, and KW V3. I should have not wasted my money buying BC's as the KW are just freaking awesome. It is amazing how compliant they are. The car is solid but not too firm. They do not dip, duck, dodge, and dive like the BC did.No it doesn't. It reduces body roll, but doesn't eliminate it. I would not buy the NSX-R sway bar expecting it to eliminate your rubbing issues. It's a great addition for handling purposes but I would not buy it expecting it to fix rubbing issues.
The best way to eliminate rubbing issues, IMHO, is to use a tried and true 215/35-18 front tire instead (I know its not available in the Michelin PSS). Remember that a 225/35-18 is not only wider, but it's also taller.
The ways to reduce the rubbing would be to for free: 1) Roll your fenders and tuck the fenderliner behind the tabs 2) stiffen up the front suspension 3) raise the front suspension 4) add additional front negative camber
I've spoken to another NSX owner here in AZ who has the Michelin PSS in 225/35-18 who has Downforce fenders and he still has rubbing issues.
For reference, this is my car when I had the NSX-R front sway with my older Eibach Spring/Bilstein strut suspension combo. We're on a skidpad, just doing high speed circles. Tires were the original Dunlop Startspec ZI.
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