Rear Sway Bars, who has run without them

RYU said:

Still playing with all those things

Though, in all honesty there have been no drawbacks to the LSD. There's been zero noise going slow or fast. If anything I have to have more control of the throttle. If I'm midturn accelerating can induce understeer. Decelerating induces what feels like trail braking situation. It all happens very slow and controlled. It's been more of a learning experience than maybe a setup flaw. I still have a lot to learn! Maybe I can fast track my learning ramp up if someone more experienced can drive my car and give me feedback. For now it's still a fun journey.

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It sounds like you need to rotate the car sooner and induce a bit of a slip angle earlier so mid corner is about controlling the car rather than turning the car. If the car is already using the traction available, which means having attained a slip angle, you can not get enough traction to induce under steer. The OSG makes all of this easy once you learn to commit to the corner before the apex and be willing to get on the power and let the car tuck and power out of the corner.

It sounds like getting some coaching from the passenger seat will help you get to the next level with your driving and taking advantage of the car you have built.

I'm currently driving an Elise with a SC, it has no rear sway and only under steers if you don't drive it as hard as it was intended to be driven...kinda means sideways through the corners and throttle steer the little bastard!

titaniumdave said:

It sounds like you need to rotate the car sooner and induce a bit of a slip angle earlier so mid corner is about controlling the car rather than turning the car. If the car is already using the traction available, which means having attained a slip angle, you can not get enough traction to induce under steer. The OSG makes all of this easy once you learn to commit to the corner before the apex and be willing to get on the power and let the car tuck and power out of the corner.

It sounds like getting some coaching from the passenger seat will help you get to the next level with your driving and taking advantage of the car you have built.

I'm currently driving an Elise with a SC, it has no rear sway and only under steers if you don't drive it as hard as it was intended to be driven...kinda means sideways through the corners and throttle steer the little bastard!

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I believe you are right but it would definitely take some skill to hold the NSX at the correct slip angle!
Many years ago, I drove back to back my own NSX and a full racing NSX.
When I got out of the race car I complained about too much understeer but I also remember that the same NSX would pull away from mine in a long constant radius curve.
I suppose that the only way to drive this kind of setup is to trail brake to the apex and then accelerate but never cruise at constant throttle through the corner?
I must try that next time but not when it rains...

@titaniumdave I could definitely use some coaching! I'm just taking it easy and enjoying every minute on the racetrack. I just need my alignment to stay put so I'm not playing too many variables on track day. Hope to install the new bushings in a couple of weeks when i'm back. Thanks for all the advice! Please keep them coming.

To @CB72's point, I have found myself needing to drive the car a little differently than before. Still learning so i'll defer to you guys on these matters

Most folks will find with the NSX, it's easy to build a car that's fun on the street(80% on the track), or fun on the track(90%+) like a race car. Once you go far enough down the 'race car' direction ones' driving style will need to change to match the way the car is set up. At a point there will need to be a leap of faith for any driver who wants get faster and still be safe, learning to move the car around dynamically rather than just depending on the static mechanical grip. It is very hard to make a car that can do both street AND track very well, there are always compromises and it's up to each of us to decide which of those compromises we can live with...and be happy

If you are messing with running no rear sway bar, remember you can adjust traction on both ends of the car with shock damping settings. Even simple single adjust shocks can have a large effect on the overall feel if you use both ends of the car. Removing the rear sway increases rear traction so stiffen up the rear damping a few clicks(less traction) and soften the front damping(more traction), this will help push traction closer to where the car was with the rear sway attached and it's fast to make 1 click changes each session to see what you like and settle on what works for you.

Having been tracking and racing for a number of years, I still find the best investment for making me faster and having more fun on the track is getting coaching. There is always room to upgrade 'the nut behind the wheel' and that is always my limitation, much more than any car I'm driving!

titaniumdave said:

If you are messing with running no rear sway bar, remember you can adjust traction on both ends of the car with shock damping settings. Even simple single adjust shocks can have a large effect on the overall feel if you use both ends of the car. Removing the rear sway increases rear traction so stiffen up the rear damping a few clicks(less traction) and soften the front damping(more traction), this will help push traction closer to where the car was with the rear sway attached and it's fast to make 1 click changes each session to see what you like and settle on what works for you.

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Dave,

I've been playing with this setting the last time I was at Sears Point. The JRZs have more range than i'm use to so the changes were pretty dramatic between sessions. However, the added complexity of having independent Compression and Rebound settings made the dialing-in process time consuming. I'm really not "there" yet but getting closer. Softer settings means less rebound from what i've learned but it seems counter intuitive. I think i've reached my patience threshold with screwing around with damper settings and alignment. BUT i've gotten a taste of the forbidden fruit and the car feels so good right now, but not great. I feel like i'm leaving so much on the table from a setup standpoint. I'm hoping I can ask someone like you or Billy to sit in the car and help me dial it in. After the car is setup to a good baseline i'd LOVE to work on the driver.

This is why I wish I had a Miata spec car. It's setup out of the box sort of and all the work to go fast is with the driver. My NSX just keeps changing and sometimes not on purpose!

RYU said:

Dave,

I've been playing with this setting the last time I was at Sears Point. The JRZs have more range than i'm use to so the changes were pretty dramatic between sessions. However, the added complexity of having independent Compression and Rebound settings made the dialing-in process time consuming. I'm really not "there" yet but getting closer. Softer settings means less rebound from what i've learned but it seems counter intuitive. I think i've reached my patience threshold with screwing around with damper settings and alignment. BUT i've gotten a taste of the forbidden fruit and the car feels so good right now, but not great. I feel like i'm leaving so much on the table from a setup standpoint. I'm hoping I can ask someone like you or Billy to sit in the car and help me dial it in. After the car is setup to a good baseline i'd LOVE to work on the driver.

This is why I wish I had a Miata spec car. It's setup out of the box sort of and all the work to go fast is with the driver. My NSX just keeps changing and sometimes not on purpose!

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Make sure you keep a log of what changes you make with the JRZ's. They are awesome coil-overs, truly the best you can buy IMO. Lots of adjustment so it's easy to 'get lost' with messing with them, always keep a baseline you can return. What springs are you running? I was very happy with softer springs(750 front/575 rear) on my JRZ 3 ways since I could control roll with low speed damping, running RA1 and R888 tires and 1 1/8" front sway, stock sway or no sway on the rear.

Always work on the driver, anytime I can get someone in the passenger seat I do. They can also help sort out suspension settings, often see things you might miss because you are focused on other things...

titaniumdave said:

Make sure you keep a log of what changes you make with the JRZ's. They are awesome coil-overs, truly the best you can buy IMO. Lots of adjustment so it's easy to 'get lost' with messing with them, always keep a baseline you can return. What springs are you running? I was very happy with softer springs(750 front/575 rear) on my JRZ 3 ways since I could control roll with low speed damping, running RA1 and R888 tires and 1 1/8" front sway, stock sway or no sway on the rear.

Always work on the driver, anytime I can get someone in the passenger seat I do. They can also help sort out suspension settings, often see things you might miss because you are focused on other things...

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I have a notebook I've started! It was the only way I could keep things organized. I really need to look for an App that can also log the track location, time, ambient temps, etc automatically. That would help.

On the JRZs, I'm becoming happier with softer springs. I only have the 2-way RS Pros but I can see where the additional low speed would be nice to have, which I ponied up for them at the time. I'm running Dali's front Track bar (forgot the OD") and a Zanardi rear bar. Springs are 9k front, 7k rear now with the OSG LSD. I was running 11K/9K last year w/o the OSG LSD.


11 kg/mm = 616 lb/in
9 Kg/mm = 504 lb/in
7 Kg/mm = 392 lb/in

(Wait.... [MENTION=4034]Coz[/MENTION], [MENTION=31260]Jinks[/MENTION], [MENTION=16375]Dhalsim[/MENTION], [MENTION=25042]Xetronic[/MENTION], [MENTION=4282]docjohn[/MENTION], [MENTION=25247]MexiRicer[/MENTION], [MENTION=27958]solidol[/MENTION] did you guys read that?? JRZs are the best he says?? Care to upgrade from tacos to Filet Mignon and join the rest of the elitist? LOL, jk... inside joke!!!)

Mac Attack said:

I initially took it off about six years ago when I started designing my naturally-aspirated exhausts and needed the layout space:
https://vimeo.com/user1744194

That need for space carried over to my current semi-sequential twin turbos.

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oh yeah I remember that video lovely sound, OK so similar to me trying out exhaust fitment issues and we are going for more power but staying NA.
we are on version 3 of our front splitter and happy with the handling up front although I am looking at maybe going to an 18 front instead of 17 but am waiting on the new rules for next season on tires before I decide what to do there